Talk:1985–1986 Hormel strike

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request edit October 16, #1[edit]

Hello, wondering if we can update the article for accuracy. Thank you.

Some sources cite the number of strikers at 1400, versus 1500. Suggested new info:

Delete: The 1985–86 Hormel strike was a labor strike that involved approximately 1,500 workers of the Hormel meatpacking plant in Austin, Minnesota in the United States.

Add: The 1985–86 Hormel strike was a labor strike that involved approximately 1,400 workers of the Hormel meatpacking plant in Austin, Minnesota in the United States.[1][2][3][4]

Some sources say the strike ended at 10 months.

Suggested new info:

Delete: August 17, 1985 – September 13, 1986 (1 year, 3 weeks and 6 days)

Add: August 17, 1985 – June 2, 1986 (10 months)[5][6]

Then regarding the South Africa line, perhaps, more sourcing is needed since there may not be other unbiased sources that confirming 1. That there are ties between Hormel and the apartheid government of South Africa and 2. That the ANC supported Local P-9.

Delete: CCI also discovered ties between Hormel and the apartheid government of South Africa, leading to the African National Congress (ANC) supporting Local P-9 against Hormel.[15]

Add: Different TBD language regarding allegations of ties between Hormel and the apartheid government of South Africa.[7][8]

Hello-Mary-H (talk) 22:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Johnson, Dirk (November 10, 1987). "Austin Journal; The Home of Hormel: A Town Still Divided". New York Times. The New York Times Company. Retrieved October 20, 2020. Some 1,400 Hormel workers went on strike on Aug. 17, 1985.
  2. ^ Press, Associated (December 25, 1986). "Effects of Hormel Strike Linger in Minnesota Town". Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles Times Communications. Retrieved October 20, 2020. About 1,400 members of Local P-9 of the United Food and Commercial Workers walked out over wages and working conditions. Hormel, saying it needed to stay competitive, cut the base wage by 23% to $8.25 an hour in October, 1984.
  3. ^ Press, Associated (December 25, 1986). "Effects of Hormel Strike Linger in Minnesota Town". Los Angeles Times. Los Angeles Times Communications. Retrieved October 20, 2020. About 1,400 members of Local P-9 of the United Food and Commercial Workers walked out over wages and working conditions. Hormel, saying it needed to stay competitive, cut the base wage by 23% to $8.25 an hour in October, 1984.
  4. ^ Warren, James (9 Oct 1990). "Film Captures Grit of Hormel Strike". Newspapers.com. Chicago Tribune. Retrieved 20 October 2020. The strike of 1,400 workers began in August 1985. In January 1986, the company tried to resume full production at its $120 million plant….(Subscription required.)
  5. ^ Baier, Elizabeth (August 17, 2010). "25 years ago, Hormel strike changed Austin, industry". KNOW-FM. Minnesota Public Radio. Retrieved August 1, 2020. By 1985, Hormel felt pressure to remain competitive. When the company demanded a 23 percent wage cut, about 1,500 workers with the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, Local P-9, in Austin walked off the job in August. The strike made national headlines and became one of the longest in an industry that was rife with them in the 1980s. After 6 months, the local union was ordered to call of the strike by the national leaders of the United Food and Commercial Workers. When the union members in Austin refused, local P-9 was placed in receivership and taken over by the national union. The 10-month strike devastated the city. Families stopped talking. National Guard soldiers patrolled the streets to keep the peace. And in this quiet community, red-faced screaming matches happened almost daily on the picket line.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  6. ^ Marks, Susan (August 12, 2019). "The 1985 Hormel strike was one of Minnesota's most contentious labor disputes". MinnPost. Retrieved October 20, 2020. On August 17, 1985, about 1,500 Hormel Foods Corporation workers went on strike at the meat-processing plant at the company's headquarters in Austin, Minnesota. The strikers, members of United Food and Commercial Workers' Local P-9, cited a wage freeze, dangerous working conditions, and a wage cut as the reasons for the strike, which continued for ten months.
  7. ^ Green, Hardy (1990). "On Strike at Hormel: The Struggle for a Democratic Labor Movement". Temple University Press. ISBN 978-0-87722-635-2. JSTOR j.ctv6mtdg6.13. Jackson and Pierce also met with Nyberg at the corporate headquarters for about an hour. According to Pierce: The company was saying they had an obligation to the scabs. Jackson said, "When you look into the faces of your original workers, I know you can see two or three generations of people who have worked here. I simply ask you to search your soul and determine whether you truly owe the replacements more than you owe second- and third-generation workers who have been instrumental in building this company." I felt that we may have made some progress. . . . I know that Nyberg was genuinely touched. Nyberg denies that the conversation went like that. He says that Jackson asked about a link between Hormel and South Africa—which Nyberg said did not exist—and "said he was very interested in the jobs of those who were not working." Jackson did not offer to mediate, Nyberg asserted, but said he would do anything he could to help the company and the union. "We said that mediation wouldn't be useful—we'd gone through the mediation process and gotten exactly nowhere." And according to Nyberg, that is where things were left, though Jackson telephoned him twice over the next few weeks. {{cite web}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  8. ^ Knowlton, Richard L.; Beyma, Ron (2010). Points of Difference: Transforming Hormel (1st ed.). Garden City, NY: Morgan James. ISBN 9781614481126. OCLC 826657964. The three major networks back then – ABC, CBS, and NBC – all put permanent teams on site in Austin. Media coverage made the strike a debated issue. Somehow, Rogers and Guyette were afforded the opportunity to appear on Ted Koppel's Nightline program, and, as I recall, they announced that Hormel was a major food manufacturer in South Africa. In fact, I had refused to approve manufacturing in South Africa until the apartheid issue was resolved. We kept asking the media to verify that Hormel was not manufacturing in South Africa – with no response. Our people countered many of the misleading programs in Denver, Seattle, Atlanta, and elsewhere – everywhere we had the chance!
Re: South Africa, the suggested replacement sentence was not given. With regards to the number of strikers, you've stated that "Some sources cite the number of strikers at 1400, versus 1500" but you haven't clarified which of the 4 provided sources state this. Please advise. Regards,  Spintendo  14:17, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Spintendo Regarding South Africa, it is not clear if a replacement sentence is warranted. In your experience, what is recommended when one source alleges a connection to South Africa but two sources offer different information? Hardy’s book says, “He says that Jackson asked about a link between Hormel and South Africa—which Nyberg said did not exist—and “said he was very interested in the jobs of those who were not working.”

While Knowlton’s book says, “Somehow, Rogers and Guyette were afforded the opportunity to appear on Ted Koppel’s Nightline program, and, as I recall, they announced that Hormel was a major food manufacturer in South Africa. In fact, I had refused to approve manufacturing in South Africa until the apartheid issue was resolved. We kept asking the media to verify that Hormel was not manufacturing in South Africa – with no response.”

Regarding the striker count, three (not four) sources have differing numbers. There may be a formatting error, since the L.A. Times source shows up twice.

–The New York Times says: “Some 1,400 Hormel workers went on strike on Aug. 17, 1985.”

–Los Angeles Times says, "About 1,400 members"

–Chicago Tribune uses "1,400 workers"

Best regards, Hello-Mary-H (talk) 22:38, 29 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hello-Mary-H, thanks for the input here. I hope to address your points in a timely manner over the next few days, but in the meantime I've already made edits concerning the number of strikers involved. After doing some more research, I found sources giving estimates of "about 1,400" and "about 1,500" or variations thereof and made a note of that where appropriate in the text, adding several additional sources for both claims. I think that "about 1,500" would be the more appropriate estimate given its use in the MNopedia article on the strike, which is cited in the note. Will update you as I address the other points. Thanks, JJonahJackalope (talk) 06:01, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi JJonahJackalope, thank you for your hard work, update and response. Best regards, Hello-Mary-H (talk) 17:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After looking the sources over, I don't think that it would be accurate to change the length of the strike to 10 months. Both of the sources you provided for the 10 month claim say that "it did not officially end for several more months" after June, and the MNopedia source you provided gives September 13, 1986 as when "the strike is declared over." Thanks, JJonahJackalope (talk) 03:27, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi JJonahJackalope thanks for digging in to check it out and weigh in. Hello-Mary-H (talk) 20:30, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, think I'm about done addressing all the points you brought up here. After additional research, I found that sources varied on the apartheid ties and made a note further explaining these discrepancies. Thanks, -JJonahJackalope (talk) 19:51, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you JJonahJackalope, it seems that the nature, extent, and validity of the alleged ties between Hormel and the apartheid government of South Africa could still warrant editing the text to say "CCI also publicized claimed ties between Hormel and the apartheid government of South Africa."

Also, the article says that Jackson traveled to Austin to act as mediator yet the Green reference has information about the nature and validity of that wording:

Jackson and Pierce also met with Nyberg at the corporate headquarters for about an hour. According to Pierce: The company was saying they had an obligation to the scabs. Jackson said, “When you look into the faces of your original workers, I know you can see two or three generations of people who have worked here. I simply ask you to search your soul and determine whether you truly owe the replacements more than you owe second- and third-generation workers who have been instrumental in building this company.” I felt that we may have made some progress. . . . I know that Nyberg was genuinely touched. Nyberg denies that the conversation went like that. He says that Jackson asked about a link between Hormel and South Africa—which Nyberg said did not exist—and “said he was very interested in the jobs of those who were not working.” Jackson did not offer to mediate, Nyberg asserted, but said he would do anything he could to help the company and the union. “We said that mediation wouldn’t be useful—we’d gone through the mediation process and gotten exactly nowhere.” And according to Nyberg, that is where things were left, though Jackson telephoned him twice over the next few weeks.15

Thank you.

Hello-Mary-H (talk) 20:30, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, just updated the article with the following edits:
-Added "alleged" before ties in the part discussing apartheid.
-Added a footnote discussing the information presented in the Green source. Ultimately, I feel like the wording that Jackson went to Austin to attempt to mediate stands based on the information presented in the United Press International source, though the footnote now notes that this is disputed by a company representative. Thanks, -JJonahJackalope (talk) 20:43, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:47, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

* ... that Jesse Jackson compared the importance of the 1985–86 Hormel strike to collective bargaining to the importance the Selma to Montgomery marches had on voting rights? [1]

Improved to Good Article status by JJonahJackalope (talk). Self-nominated at 18:24, 4 November 2020 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: —valereee (talk) 12:49, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Both hooks interesting, but the first one is a bit confusing, I had to read it twice, wondering if we can tweak that. —valereee (talk) 12:53, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jackson hook is cited, the other has a source sentence The strike was later the subject of a 2020 stage play written by Philip Dawkins for the Children's Theatre Company called Spamtown, USA, which focused on the children of several Hormel workers on different sides of the strike. that needs a citation. —valereee (talk) 12:56, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review, as far as the first hook is concerned, I see that I really could have made it clearer. How about this:

ALT0a* ... that Jesse Jackson compared the 1985–86 Hormel strike and its importance to collective bargaining to the impact the Selma to Montgomery marches had on voting rights?

But also, I think I'd probably prefer to use ALT1 as the hook, though with "had" replaced by "has", such that:
Sources for this hook can be found at the following places: [4] (Academy Award-winning film) and [5] (stage play). Thanks! JJonahJackalope (talk) 03:01, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JJonahJackalope, can you add those citations to the sentence (DYK needs it at the support sentence.) I tried, but I don't understand that style of referencing. Ping me when you reply, I'd forgotten all about this. —valereee (talk) 13:22, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Valereee, there you go, think that would work, and if not let me know! -JJonahJackalope (talk) 15:15, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
JJonahJackalope, I'm sorry if I'm being stupid...what I need is for the sentence The strike was later the subject of a 2020 stage play written by Philip Dawkins for the Children's Theatre Company called Spamtown, USA, which focused on the children of several Hormel workers on different sides of the strike, which supports ALT1, to have a citation at the sentence. —valereee (talk) 15:21, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've inserted a cn tag where I'm talking about. —valereee (talk) 15:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Valereee, sorry about the confusion there, but I went ahead and moved that citation to the sentence in question and added another citation to the subsequent sentence talking about the reviews. Thanks, and if there's anything else please let me know. -JJonahJackalope (talk) 15:35, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, and sorry for the delay in completing! Both hooks approved, nom prefers ALT1a —valereee (talk) 15:38, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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