Talk:1968 European Formula Two Championship

Zolder Race[edit]

The claim is made in this article that the Zolder race was considered a championship event, including in the lede, schedule, and championship standings, but no source is given for this. Indeed, every source I've checked excludes Belgium/Zolder (the Limburg Grand Prix) from the 1968 championship. The sources I've checked are Motorsport Magazine database (the only source given in the article), The Guinness Guide to International Motor Racing, Formula2.net (not bolded, not counting to points), and Old Racing Cars. Presumably User:Doma-w had a reason for including this race when the article was created in 2007, but if we are going to claim that some sources consider it to have been a championship event we ought to be able to provide one. Since this would require changing the championship tables, I'll leave this here for a bit in case someone can come up with something (perhaps in a contemporary source?) but if not I will remove mention of it. A7V2 (talk) 11:50, 22 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@A7V2: Perhaps you can help me a bit here, does The Guinness Guide to International Motor Racing actually mention the race itself? I've searched through both Newspapers.com and the British Newspaper Archive for "Zolder", "Limborg" and "Limbourg" and can find literally no mention of the race at all. Even searching "Rindt" in the date ranges of the race just brings up ~20 articles mentioning him racing in the Indy 500. Searching for "Formula Two" "Zolder" in 1969 yields 77 articles for the 1969 race. It seems so strange to have such a lack of sources if this race actually took place. I mean even this page on MotorSport Magazine only shows Rindt as the winner with 0 points. FozzieHey (talk) 11:57, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FozzieHey: The Guinnes Guide... doesn't mention the race, though that's quite normal for non-championship races in that book. I'm more or less certain that the race took place. Formula2.net gives full results for the race and there is a MS Magazine article (from the time) with a report [1] which further implies it was a major race with all the main F2 competitors (which it was) but it doesn't explicitly mention if it was a championship event or not. Presumably the motorsport magazine database page you give has Rindt as zero points since it was a non-championship event, and so no-one could have scored points? I'm not sure, I've often found their pages to contain bizarre pointless bits of non-information like this (note also that Rindt wasn't eligible for points in 1968 as he was a graded driver).

Forgot sign, pinging again @FozzieHey:. A7V2 (talk) 23:13, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@A7V2: Thanks for providing that source, I must have missed it as I could only find the 1969 race report. Looks like the race did indeed go ahead then and maybe the lack of news coverage could indicate that it wasn't a championship race, although there is still normally at least *some* news coverage for non-championship races so it does seem a bit odd. If you continue on that race report on page 516 it does say that Rindt could have picked up 4 points if he stayed in that position which is even more puzzling if as you say he was ineligible to gain points. FozzieHey (talk) 00:03, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you go down to the combined results, it lists Rindt in 1st with 4 points but 13th place has 28 points. I must admit I'm not familiar with the Formula Two points system so what does this mean exactly? FozzieHey (talk) 00:12, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FozzieHey: I think I understand your confusion: The "race" itself (by which I mean the Limburg Grand Prix), was held over two heats, with drivers scoring points for each heat and then the points determine the winner of the race. Confusingly, formula2.net's results give an aggregate time instead of points for the heats, but the Motorsport article specifically says that they used a points system, and complains that this caused the driver with shortest aggregate time in the 1967 edition to not win, and that this nearly happened again in 1968 (so I would assume formula2.net has made an error here).

But whether the Limburg GP was part of the 1968 championship or not, these points to determine the order for this event would not have had any effect on the championship points. (Championship) Points would have been awarded to the top 6 drivers (in event points) in the usual way (9-6-4-3-2-1), ignoring graded drivers, as with any 1968 championship event. As for there being coverage of a non-championship event, this would be quite common in those days. After all, just looking at the names of some of the drivers it was clearly a fairly major event regardless of whether it counted to a championship or not. A7V2 (talk) 04:44, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@A7V2: Thanks for clearing that up, as there is no source pointing to it being a championship race and the lack of coverage perhaps highlighting its lack of notability I think it's fine to remove it if you agree. FozzieHey (talk) 09:26, 31 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FozzieHey:Sorry for the delay. Yes good, I think it should be removed. I will eventually get around to it but of course if you or anyone else wants to that's fine! I wonder though if this article (and later seasons) should have a list of non-championship races like 1967 European Formula Two Championship does? A7V2 (talk) 00:06, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have now removed mention of the Zolder race. Hopefully I didn't make too many (or any!) errors with the driver round numbers. A7V2 (talk) 23:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]