Talk:Los Angeles

Close to tropical climate

@Uness232: I don’t think it’s correct to say that the city is a few degrees close to a tropical climate because the average temperature isn’t the sole criterion according to the Köppen climate classification. A true tropical climate has humid summers with plenty of precipitation against dry and virtually rainless winters, which is the exact opposite compared to Los Angeles’s Mediterranean climate. You may say that places like Orlando, Hong Kong, São Paulo or Brisbane are short of having a true tropical climate because they all have humid subtropical climates with a tropical precipitation pattern as well as a lot of tropical vegetation and fail to qualify only on average temperature in the coldest month(s), but definitely not for a place like Los Angeles which is at least a desert far from the tropics.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:31, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kiril Simeonovski The sole definition of a tropical climate according to Köppen is all months being above 18C, and the climate not being B type. There is no requirement for tropical climates to have humid summers or dry winters (which is why the As dry-summer tropical savanna type exists, for example near somewhere like Lanai City), and these climates can also border arid ones, like São Tomé. Indeed, LA is only a few degrees away from being classified the same way as Lanai City or São Tomé, and would feel a lot like those places if it wasn't for its slight nighttime chill.

Of course, from a genetic climate class perspective, these climates have nothing to do with each other, but from an effective perspective (which is what Köppen is based on), exceptional situations in different airmass environments can cancel-out, causing similar results.

Also, LA is sub-humid to semi-arid, not really close to being a desert in any climate classification sense. Uness232 (talk) 22:47, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Uness232: That’s outright incorrect. According to Köppen, the definitions for the three tropical climates are as follows:

• Tropical rainforest climate (Af): precipitation in all months greater than 60 mm;
• Tropical monsoon climate (Am): precipitation in driest month less than 60 mm but greater than ${\textstyle 100-\left({\frac {\text{Total Annual Precipitation (mm)}}{25}}\right)}$; and
• Tropical savanna climate (Aw/As): precipitation in driest month less than 60 mm and less than ${\textstyle 100-\left({\frac {\text{Total Annual Precipitation (mm)}}{25}}\right)}$, and total annual precipitation between 700 mm and 1,000 mm.

With 362 mm, Los Angeles fails all three by a long shot. Note that Culiacán qualifies temperature-wise for a tropical climate, but it’s considered a B type even though it has total annual precipitation greater by 300 mm than Los Angeles, which means that Los Angeles would have most definitely been a B type had it qualified based on temperature. All this is based merely on climate definition, not even considering the fact that there’s absolutely no tropical vegetation native to Los Angeles (those palm trees were artificially introduced and require irrigation efforts to survive, with the only native palm species being the desert fan palm).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:41, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

It seems like you're both skipping the fact that this statement is WP:OR, since there's no source actually making the claim. Speculation about whether it might be true or not is irrelevant. It should be removed. -- Fyrael (talk) 03:47, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Kiril Simeonovski The Aw/As boundary makes no mention of annual precipitation, which essentially makes all non-B and non-f/m tropical climates Aw/As. I don't know where you're getting those rules from, but WP:RS on this issue are clear. However, I do see your point about how changing the temperature would cause the climate type to change, making these hypotheticals problematic in general if not for LA only. The vegetation point is irrelevant though; Istanbul has no natural subtropical flora, but it is humid subtropical (or Mediterranean if 40mm is used for the f/s boundary, but that's still a subtropical climate). Köppen types are only approximations, they have their problems.

@Fyrael Technically it is not OR, the source is just at the wrong place and should be the rules of the Köppen classification. However, looking at the claim again, I can see how it is more or less meaningless; after that reconsideration, I am okay with it being removed. Uness232 (talk) 04:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Lack of map showing Los Angeles neighborhoods

Where is the good map showing all the neighborhoods of Los Angeles? It's very, very, very ridiculous and unencyclopedic that there isn't one in the current version of this article. 98.123.38.211 (talk) 02:01, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

An example of such a map: https://imgcap.capturetheatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/neighborhood-map-los-angeles.jpg 98.123.38.211 (talk) 02:03, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

What is the copyright status of that image? Please read WP:COPYOTHERS, which explains how copyright law affects what we can use in Wikipedia. Donald Albury 12:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Weak source for "exodus of entertainment talent"?

In the last paragraph of the lede, the statement "a post-COVID-19 pandemic exodus of entertainment production and talent" does not seem to me to be supported by the cited article, which lists only a handful of actors/musicians who have recently moved their primary residence to other states, many citing personal reasons rather than business or financial concerns. An "exodus of entertainment production and talent" sounds more like a significant upheaval, with hundreds of entertainment professionals and businesses pulling up stakes. Unless there are other news sources that credibly report such a major change in the Hollywood industry, I don't see any reason for this edit (from Feb. 21, 2024) to stand. 2600:100A:B1E3:F356:0:1E:34F8:3101 (talk) 09:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I concur. The source is insufficient for the scope claimed by the sentence. It comes off as dishonest POV-pushing. I'm going to remove it outright. oknazevad (talk) 09:58, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-arid climate?

According to the Koppen climate classification, Los Angeles falls into a semi-arid climate, not hot mediterranean. It doesn't really matter what the map shows. The data is much more important to classify the climate. Using the Koppen aridity index, Los Angeles has climatic characteristics more associated with a semi-arid climate than a Mediterranean climate and it would be more appropriate to say that it has a semi-arid climate, with Mediterranean influences. Farell37 (talk) 21:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Farell37 You are correct. The aridity threshold would be 376mm for LA and precipitation is below that as of now. I assume this has to do with 1991-2020 climate normals, as they have raised the avg temperature leading to a higher aridity threshold. Uness232 (talk) 04:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you sure LA is currently semi arid? דולב חולב (talk) 09:53, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes it is! The thereshold is 376 mm in this case, which means if the precipitation is lower than that, It is classified as semi-arid climate. Farell37 (talk) 13:52, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

how can I calculate the threshold? דולב חולב (talk) 16:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I wonder about Israeli cities. They are considered to be Mediterranean, but vegetation is usually minimal and ends up as several dry grasses with barely any shrubs. דולב חולב (talk) 16:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

To calculate the threshold precipitation, it depends a little on the type of climate classification you use. According to the Koppen climate classification, thereshold is calculated as follows:

Multiply the average annual temperature by 2. Then multiply by 10. This is the result of umbral precipitation. Then, it is important to take into account the % of precipitation that occurs in the hottest months of the year (april to september on northen hemisphere and october to march on southern hemisphere):

-If less than 30% of the average annual precipitation occurs in the hottest months of the year, then no value is added. Example of a mean annual temperature of 17.5 in which less than 30% of precipitation occurs between the hottest months of the year. 17.5*2 = 35. As I said, it is multiplied at the end by 10, so the threshold precipitation in this case is 350 mm.

-If between 30 and 70% of the average annual precipitation occurs between the hottest months of the year, then +14 is added to the result of multiplying the average annual temperature by 2. Example of a mean annual temperature of 17.5 in which at least 30% of precipitation but less than 70% occurs between the hottest months of the year: 17.5*2 = 35+14=49. Multiply by 10 and the hereshold is 490 mm.

-If more than 70% of precipitation occurs in the hottest months of the year, then +28 is added.

But why is important to take into account the % precipitation that occurs in the hottest months of the year? In the hottest months, evaporation of water from the soil and plants can be high, which can worsen the region's aridity. Therefore, even if some precipitation occurs in the warmer months, if this amount is not enough to compensate for evaporation and provide adequate water for vegetation and other organisms, the region can be classified as semi-arid. The more rain that occurs in the hottest months of the year, the greater the thereshold needed to overcome evaporation and sustain local vegetation and ecosystems.

In Mediterranean climates, it is common for vegetation to be scarcer during the summer, but the rain in the autumn and winter months is sufficient to sustain the vegetation. As there is so much rain in these seasons and the summer can be very dry, it classifies the region as Mediterranean and not semi-arid. Farell37 (talk) 16:34, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore, If the average annual precipitation is less than 50% of the thereshold, then the region is classified as a desert climate rather than semi-arid. Farell37 (talk) 16:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Still seems weird to me.

the landscape here is so semi arid!

Vegetation is so scarce, with scorching hot temperatures. דולב חולב (talk) 19:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

The temperature is irrelevant here (except if is part of group E). The landscape is also not a important point. The important is the precipitation: if is less than the thereshold, than belongs to the semi-arid climate (or arid if is less than 50% of the thereshold). The landscape can be arid for other reasons, such as drought Farell37 (talk) 19:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2024

In the sports section, remove Los Angeles Clippers from the tag about Crypto.com Arena and add Intuit Dome in list of venues. The Clippers season has ended. 47.153.148.108 (talk) 09:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 11:14, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

47.153.148.108 (talk) 15:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Hold off until the next season begins and the Intuit Dome is actually open. Unexpected delays could occur, and there's no rush in listing it as open when it is not actually open yet. oknazevad (talk) 14:46, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 26 May 2024

The most common ancestries in Los Angeles are German (3.8%), followed by Irish, English, Italian, Polish and French. Add this information to the demographics section.

Source: https://data.census.gov/profile/Los_Angeles_city,_California?g=160XX00US0644000 103.38.254.254 (talk) 10:12, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 May 2024 (2)

Spanish is spoken by 39.4% in Los Angeles. Add this information to the demographics section.

Source: https://data.census.gov/profile/Los_Angeles_city,_California?g=160XX00US0644000 103.38.254.254 (talk) 10:14, 26 May 2024 (UTC)