Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Men's Issues/Archives/2014/April

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Boys_are_stupid,_throw_rocks_at_them!_controversy

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Boys_are_stupid,_throw_rocks_at_them!_controversy. assistance welcome from those with access to newspaper archives to get a better sense of coverage over time. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 11:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

WP:CANVASS Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:55, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Massacre_of_Kalavryta#On_categorization_as_Violence_against_men

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Massacre_of_Kalavryta#On_categorization_as_Violence_against_men. Please join this discussion, which has unfortunately gotten a bit heated, on whether Massacre of Kalavryta should be added to the category of "Violence against men". Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 04:32, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

WP:CANVASS Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:56, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

please ignore the unsubstantiated accusation of canvassing above, Marek has decided to not pursue this further, nor refer it to ANI nor provide any evidence of canvassing, he simply wants to disparage me with cheap shots.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 12:16, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Did you place a notice of this discussion *anywhere* else Obi-Wan?--Cailil ^talk 16:07, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, 3 other projects, that were tagged on the article and seemed relevant. It seems Marek, like you, didn't bother to check.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 17:13, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I can only find 1[1] Obi-Wan. I can see 3 other notifications of discussions though the 1 I mentioned along with a notification of the Abu Ghraib discussion on the same page & a notification of the Abu Ghraib to WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography. But there are not 3 other notification to 3 other wikiprojects on this issue Obi-Wan. It's not a big issue on its own but everyone needs to be careful of the appearance of canvassing - it doesn't help reduce "heated" discussion & in fact can end up being counter productive--Cailil ^talk 08:55, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

please look again, and let me know when you've found them. I'm on mobile so can't post diffs easily, just check my contrib history. Thanks--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 12:38, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Obiwan posted to 4 projects about this issues, here, Military History which you link to Cailil, Wikiproject Death [2], and Wikiproject Greece [3].--Kyohyi (talk) 12:49, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough Obi-Wan but the point stands. The appearance of votestacking in a heated discussion can generate more heat than light--Cailil ^talk 13:49, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Can you elaborate in what way this was considered vote stackingm, or even in what way did this give the appearance of vote stacking? Do you think this was a violation of WP:CANVASS? Marek has not provided any evidence, he just made a specious accusation because he saw one notification (and didn't search to find the others); and you also failed to find any reason to call this canvassing. I suggest you both apologize and we move on. Thanks.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 14:01, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Obi-Wan I didn't accuse you of anything. I did however ask you a question and did point out how someone else could see your post that way. And BTW the post you made above this one, about the Boys_are_stupid,_throw_rocks_at_them! AFD, doesn't help because it asks for help in a specific way from a group "due to its established point of view" (see WP:CANVASS). The problem is that that post is a call for support of your position in an increasingly personalized dispute with VM. Following that with this notification of yet another dispute with VM walks a tight rope. Whether or not in that context this breaks the rules would be up to, and something I'll leave to, an uninvolved sysop to decide. Fundamentally though Obi-Wan you'd be better extending an olive branch to VM than demanding an apology--Cailil ^talk 15:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Fine - but Marek DID accuse me of canvassing, and I haven't seen any evidence that his accusation is true, his accusation has been shown to be bullshit, which is why I'm simply asking for an apology and a retraction. As for the "Boys are stupid", I notified this project because the article was TAGGED to this project; I also notified Wikiproject Gender studies at the same time (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies&diff=603287072&oldid=600712016) - there is only one other project tagged there, but I didn't notify wikiproject books as the delete discussion has nothing to do with the "book" and I didn't think it was relevant (and anyway, it was notified, later in any case). That said, I didn't canvass on this one, and I didn't canvass on the other one - I simply notified relevant projects in a neutral fashion. And no, this post is NOT a call for support of my position - the notification was neutral. It is a call for more participation. There was a debate on sourcing at the Boys article, so I asked for people with access to historical newspaper archives so they could weigh in on the strength of sourcing, one way or another. I get the feeling that you think people who frequent this page are pro-Mens-rights or something like that, but that is not the case at all - there are likely plenty of editors watching here who want to have good NPOV coverage of men's rights but who are neutral or against the concept - the same is true for the feminism page, and any other such pages. That said, I notified in both cases OTHER projects with the same neutral notification.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 16:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)