Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Kosovo/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Flags & co

I know that the idea of neutrality is already seen as a pro-serb argument on wikipedia, but Kosovo independence symbols (as flags, etc...) come as wikipedia recognize them... Wikipedia is not here to recognize or not a state but only to describe facts: so maybe the flag peoblem was discussed already 100 times, but it is very offensing for serbian people to see it here. That is why I think that flags and other symols about independence should be avoided and this project should mainly provide links to other articles on kosovo ad other facts on this region. The barnstar looks even worse: for me it is like a military symbol...welcome to wikiUCK!
If one day kosovo will be really recognized, the flag could than be used in any article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.1.75.196 (talk) 20:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

As the person who created the barnstar, I must say that I am offended. The barnstar has nothing to do with the UÇK, nor does it resemble any military symbol. The image itself is very similar to other barnstars used by numerous European Wikiprojects and you can check that.
As for the "flag, etc.", I think the status quo will remain, not because this wikiproject is biased, but because the proposed changes would require a tremendous effort from many editors.
Cheers mate!
Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 11:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Districts

Next to the UNMIK territorial division onto districts, there is also the official Serbian. Shouldn't both be used in the article for neutrality? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not an article, just a list of links, and it's not in the main article space, so neutrality isn't a concern. If the official Serbian districts you mention don't have articles, they shouldn't be listed - there shouldn't be any red links in a public watchlist. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Serbian division of Kosovo-Metohija
Yes, they all have articles:
Also was there a compromise to move the Cyrillic script on all articles from the beginning to the latter part? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning - I thought you were talking about the list of articles in the watchlist, not the actual names given in the text of the articles. I'm not aware of there being any such compromise and I see from the public watchlist that there's been a dispute over names and script. There's a more general issue here, which is that we don't have any consistent standards for the naming of places in Kosovo. This will be a big issue in the days to come! I'll post some proposals in a couple of days (hopefully). -- ChrisO (talk) 21:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
No actually you didn't, you understood well. :) Those are two separate questions. What do you think about the first? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 22:26, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm still not quite sure I understand what you're asking. It's a Friday evening, go easy with me. :-) Could you rephrase it so that my frazzled brain can catch up with you? -- ChrisO (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Nm. Kosovo will soon become independent, so the Serbian administrative division is not quite relevant. :) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 23:53, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Temporary guidelines

To avoid edit warring on style and infoboxes, and to provinde our readership with a bare minimum of consistency, it would be time to establish clear temporary guidelines for at least four simple issues:

  1. The presentation of Kosovo in the lead of articles.
  2. The names to be used in articles (the ones each article currently uses or the Albanian ones).*sigh*
  3. The order of names in the infoboxes *sigh!!*
  4. The presentation of Kosovo in the infoboxes.

This will guide us all & others to enforce a clear agreement. Let's try to do it remembering that the English Wikipedia's main objective is to provide encyclopedic information to an English-speaking readership, and not to assert or emphasize the "Albanianness" or "Serbianness" of the topic. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 18:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

1. Lead's presentation

Mention just "Kosovo", with no further clarification needed in each individual article. - Ev (talk) 18:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Or mentioning "the [[International reaction to the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence|partially recognized]] [[Republic of Kosovo]]". (Taken from an example by Dbachmann :-) - Ev (talk) 19:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

2. Names used

We comply with our policies and reflect common English usage, as attested in the current name of each article. We're not supposed to advocate the adoption of the Albanian forms by the English language. - Ev (talk) 18:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

3. Names in infobox

I just don't care. Let's roll some dices and stick to it. - Ev (talk) 18:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

4. Infobox's presentation

We presenting it as a country, not a province of Serbia. A footnote indicating Belgrade's position could be added if others feel it necessary. Ev (talk) 18:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree--Cradel 20:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

New flag of Kosovo

Flag of Kosovo
Flag of Kosovo
Flag of Kosovo
Flag of Kosovo

The map on the current flag image seems too small. I made two new temporary suggestions which seem to be closer to the truth:

--Camptown (talk) 23:35, 21 February 2008 (UTC)





  • Actually a request has been placed to address the problem. I have already dealt with it, here is the result in SVG, what do you think?
  • I will fix the SVG. I will use the colors from the Bosnian flag, since from the photos I have seen, the colors are exactly the same. I am waiting for something like [1] and a law about the colors. Anything else? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Zscout370's result
That is not the right colour , the right one is the middle one but that however is the colour of the coat of arms--Cradel 20:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I know the top color is being used at the government websites, the yellow one has been used in a few places. If I can offer my honest opinion, I think the color should be left alone until either a law comes out or consensus comes from here. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
OK then --Cradel 20:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how long such a law will take, but I have buddies in Belgrade and Zagreb keeping eyes on it. I might write to the Kosovo Government soon. Also, while on a similar topic, I modified the coat of arms to match what the Kosovo Government has, with exception to the colors. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I sent an email to the Kosovo Government about the flag, hopefully, I get a response. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC) I spoke too soon; the email bounced. Is there a snail mail address I could write to? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar of national merit

I have not noticed the barnstar of national merit so i went ahead and created one, is that okay with the rest of the members?

{{Kosovo_Barnstar}} which gives:

The Kosovar Barnstar of National Merit
your message here
this WikiAward was given to {{subst:PAGENAME}} by ~~~ on ~~~~~
Cheers!
Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 20:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Very good :) , thank you --Cradel 15:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

usage of flag images

I do not think it is admissible to use the flag of the Republic of Kosovo in relation to this project. Wikiprojects should not be formed along party lines. A Wikiproject on Kosovo should be equally open to all editors wishing to develop articles on Kosovo, regardless of their position towards Kosovar independence. Hence I recommend using a neutral image, such as Image:Kosovo blue map.png. The flag should only be used in connection with the Republic of Kosovo where it is explicitly referred to. Using "Kosovo" as a shorthand for "Republic of Kosovo" is biased. dab (𒁳) 15:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

What is the differnece in being NPOV between Image:Kosovo blue map.png and the flag or coat of arms of Kosovo, I think the flag is neutral enough ,it matches the standards of Ahtisari's plan of being multi-ethinc , it is not like there is any albanian or serbian elements here, thats why it is NPOV--Cradel 15:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Agree with Cradel, the flag is good enough, 'Period'. Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 17:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
the flag is that of the Republic of Kosovo, which is not universally recognized. I must say I have difficulties assuming your argument that showing the flag is "neutral" is made in good faith. Please try to address the issue raised, or don't bother to comment. dab (𒁳) 17:21, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I do not understand why you want to separate Kosovo from the republic of Kosovo. Institucionet e përkohshme të vetëqeverisjes/ Привремене институције самоуправе declared independence of Kosovë on the land of Kosovë for the people of Kosovë with the flag of Kosovë, on it the map of Kosovë! I mean, really, in totally good faith, is the flag offensive to anybody? Does it have elements which might prevent other users from joining the project? Would it impede the advancement of articles related to Kosovo???
Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 17:37, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
you may have heard of certain disputes surrounding that declaration of independence? I mean, if you haven't spent the past month in a cave somewhere? The flag symbolizes the Republic of Kosovo. The status of that Republic is completely disputed. It is uncontroversial to use the flag as a symbol of the disputed Republic. It is very controversial indeed to imply that the flag somehow symbolizes "Kosovo". If you cannot understand this point, I am afraid I cannot help you. dab (𒁳) 08:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
"Spent the past month in a cave somewhere?" Nah, not really. At least not in a one that does not have a tv,a pc and an internet connection anyway. Well, I understand that there exists a dispute, but as you said, my whole argument is based on the fact that the country on a certain territory represents that territory and its people -whether people agree with that body of authority or not-, thus the Republic of Kosovo represents Kosovo.I hope you understand what I am trying to say here, and assume good faith next time. Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 13:54, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

@ Dab: Maybe we should not use the flag/map of Serbia either since 36 Countries also do not recognize it the way it is presented here. 85.144.179.57 (talk) 13:11, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It is totally INSULTING, contrary to netural POV rules and against the spirit of the Kosovo article on wikipedia itself to use this disputed flag of this disputed "country" to symbolize the entire historical region. SHAMEFUL! --24.150.77.3 (talk) 18:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

POV pushers

It seems there is an increasing number of people who are pushing their POV on Kosovo-related articles, and sometimes list Kosovo as part of Serbia, reverting edits that correct the situation. I would recommend paying attention to these kinds of things, user:cradel is particularly active in that area, but we need more people! How about starting a whole department dedicated for this? Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 15:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, do not you think we should update this? Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 15:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo is the territory of the Republic of Kosovo according to precisely 22 countries. According to the UN, it is the territory of Serbia, under ad interim UN control. Your talk of "correction" is obviously biased. If you edit in good faith, you will accept a dispute as a dispute, regardless of your personal opinion. The fact of the matter is that this dispute is real, and that the international community is divided. To call one pov more "correct" than the other is blatant bias. dab (𒁳) 17:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I do not think we will magically find a solution to this problem, and as such I will expect the problems to persist. I have never said or implied that someone's POV is "less correct" than my own, I just do not see why Kosovo, an independent country according to the most important thing- the will of its people, has to be listed as part of Serbia, especially in lists and these kinds of things. Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 17:43, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

we will not find "a solution" to the dispute itself (come on). We will just implement WP:NPOV by not using the flag as a symbol of "Kosovo". Plastering Kosovo related articles with that flag is exaclty like plastering them with Serbian flags. We will do neither. dab (𒁳) 08:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Find a solution to the dispute here, not the international one! That's light years ahead of WP's role at the moment. Please not mix the cards, in this "thread" I have warned people to be cautious of some who try to list Kosovo as part of Serbia in some articles. This would most certainly be visible in lists, ranks, and these kinds of things. If you disagree with me on this point, please mention a solution to the problem rather than criticizing my opinions. Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 13:58, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Activity

How active are we? Even the most recent edits on this WikiProject are done more than a month ago. We are living critical times as Kosovo is engaged in nation building. There are tons of news and updates every day and the existing topics are lagging behind, are poor in terms of length and quality and are mostly unnoticed by the project. No criticism, just some thoughts. We'd also need some more organization and clear tasks here. Rayhou (talk) 22:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Source list?

Would it be any use if I complied a list of Kosovo-related sources? I'd include official sources, news sites and such. I'd also specify the language(s) of the sources (e.g. Albanian and/or English). Rayhou (talk) 09:45, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that would be most helpful considering the number of disagreements concerning this subject. A source list would certainly help in resolving (some of) these conflicts.
Cheers!
Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 16:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

How to join?

I fully support heroic Albanian people in Kosovo. How do I join this project? Bosniak (talk) 02:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

To join is easy. It is as simple as joining any other WikiProject. All you have to do is add your name to the "Members" section of the WP. --Prevalis (talk) 03:32, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Great... someone wants to 'support heroic Albanian people in Kosovo' by joining the WikiProject (sarcasm alert). This is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, not a place to vent one's national prejudices. Jonathanmills (talk) 14:48, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

KOSOVO'S CONSTITUTION SPELLS "PRISTINA" AS SO

We should spell Pristina the same way the Republic of Kosovo's Constitution does as that makes sense. Kosovo's Constitution spells it as "Pristina". Please read Chapter 1 Article 13 Kosovo's Constitution

Here is a final copy of the constitution Kosovo's Constitution FINAL COPY. This too spells the city as Pristina. Please read Chapter 1 Article 13
The constitution has been approved by the EU and according to news it will be adopted tomorrow in Kosovo parliament. It's a done deal. There will be no further changes. Therefore you can not disagree with the spelling. Now we must update the articles accordingly

Ijanderson977 (talk) 21:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

  • I agree. If that's the English form defined in the Constitution, we should use it. Also, that form is the one you see in the media, general discussions etc. Rayhou (talk) 11:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeh my point exactly, that shows that even the Kosovo Govt agree that in English it is spelled "Pristina". The English translation for the Albanian version of "Prishtina" is Pristina. We should use the English version for English Wikipedia and the Albanian version for Albanian Wikipedia. Seems logical to me. Also Google news hits... Pristina gets 1,638 hits [2], "Prishtina" gets 49 hits [3]. English speakers overwhemingly prefer Pristina. Pristina is also neutral as it's not the Serbian or Albanian spelling. Almost all of the governments that recognise Kosovo use Pristina (see [4] [5] [6], etc.). 2008
  • CIA WORLD FACT BOOK [7]
  • BBC Country Profiles [8]

These two who are very important in the English speaking world and spell it as "Pristina".
Ijanderson977 (talk) 15:25, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

  • A very good point. Currently the main article is, however, spelled "Priština." Should it be changed? Rayhou (talk) 15:54, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes it should be changed as this is English wikipedia, so we should use English spellings. Ijanderson977 (talk) 18:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Do you agree that "Pristina" should be added to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Kosovo-related articles) as the correct spelling of the city? Ijanderson977 (talk) 18:33, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The constitution does spell the capital city as "Pristina", but this is not the fact the "The English translation for the Albanian version of "Prishtina" is Pristina". On the contrary, the spelling is the usage in English of "Pristina", coming from the Serbian "Priština" without diacritics (or the symbol above the s denoting the "sh" pronunciation in English). Serbian sources were and still are mainly the ones available (for names of Kosovo localities) for use in mapping or nomenclature by non-Serbian sources (such as the aforementioned CIA factbook and BBC Country Profile). However, the correct way in English of writing the capital city in a way that would represent both the Albanian and Serbian pronunciation would be "Prishtina". Since this English spelling is similar to the Albanian "Prishtina", it creates political tension, and hence the Constitution of Kosovo having to keep it as "Pristina". In my opinion, "Prishtina" is the most correct, I believe my argument established that in a way that didn't choose sides between either the Albanian or Serbian spelling. --80.80.170.122 (talk) 11:20, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Update the Navbar

I may be new but i think that Kosovo's Navbar looks out of date I would like to change it with permissionMarkreidyhp 12:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead , thanks b.th.w. --Cradel 15:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

List

Should we make a list of all Kosovo related articles, so that people can view them all? Ijanderson977 (talk) 19:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Err, not sure what you mean, if you mean a category, it is already there Category:WikiProject Kosovo articles --Cradel 20:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

University of Prishtina

Please take a look at this article (University of Prishtina) and contribute in the discussion. I believe that <University of Pristina> should simply redirect to the earlier, while the Serbian institution should have a separate article.--Getoar (talk) 15:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Support -- Cradel 16:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Project Kosovo POV?

Hi all,

I have to say that I think it is extremely biased of Wikipedia to essentially be presenting, as a matter of fact, Kosovo's independence. This an encyclopaedia, no? And at the moment Kosovo's independence is *not* recognised by the vast majority of the world's countries (although not those which most Wikipedia editors hail from, and who arrogantly call themselves 'the international community'). Cheers Jonathanmills (talk) 16:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, the independence of London is not recognised by the vast majority of the world's countries either, yet we have Wikipedia:WikiProject London. Colchicum (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
The UK gave the privilege to London. Serbia didn't give that same privileged to Kosovo. This is where it differs.Mike Babic (talk) 07:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo citation/GA push?

Its a disgrace that the main article for WP:Kosovo is only a B article. I've basically finished citing the Politics section of Kosovo, and plan to bring its content up to date. Is anyone interested in collaborating on at least getting the article's facts cited, and perhaps a GA campaign in the near future? User:RideABicycle/Signature17:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Stability is one of the other key things needed for GA, and right now with many articles on Kosovo, I really think that is not possible. Plus, anyone can list a GA, so I believe there will be folks willing to do anything to get these articles demoted. I suggest going to articles that might be on the lower scale of importance, but make those GA to get our name out there. I'll do Flag of Kosovo, if that is OK. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Well I still think that we can progress in the right direction with that article. However, Heraldry is something I am quite fascinated in, and maybe I can try my hand in vexillology.User:RideABicycle/Signature19:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
There is always Coat of arms of Kosovo that we can try and promote to GA. I got ideas, just waiting for finals to end before I act on them. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:41, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo in the Eurovision Song Contest

Kosovo in the Eurovision Song Contest has been listed for deletion. As been members of Wikiproject Kosovo we should improve the article to keep it. Ijanderson977 (talk) 11:53, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

New articles

Wikipedia:WikiProject Kosovo/New article announcements has been set up. Colchicum (talk) 15:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Very good! Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 15:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Controversial image

I feel that the image representing WikiProject Kosovo should be neutral, like the article on Kosovo itself. We should not use the flag of the separatist government, instead we should use a non-controversial image such as this: [9] . --Tocino 21:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it has been already addressed. Cheers mate! Λua∫Wise (Operibus anteire) 18:14, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Small Cyrillic problem

Kosovan Serb Assembly I know that I have mixed lower case with capitals in the Serbian name. Please assist if you know the Cyrillic alphabet and translate the name literally if you can. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.

  • The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
  • The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
  • A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot (Disable) 21:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Kosovo

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:07, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Please see

Here And discuss it there. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Šar Mountain

Šar Mountain has become the focus of anonymous ip edit warriors. The conflict is solely about whether the mountain (or range) is located in Serbia or Kosovo. To me, Kosovo alone seems sufficient for the purposes of geographical identification. Does this group have a style guide that addresses this issue? Do members of this group have anything they might add to the article? It seems to lack everything except good photographs. Aramgar (talk) 17:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

This problem has not been resolved. Aramgar (talk) 13:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Since the note used in the article on the Šar Mountains (after this discussion) is being used in other articles as well, I have created a template for it {{Kosovo-note}}, although taking the liberty of making a modification (subject to review by everyone, of course). - Feel free to discuss the issue at the template's talk page. :-) Best regards, Ev (talk) 16:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

European Union Rule of Law Mission in Kosovo

The EULEX article is in serious need of an update and improvement. Ijanderson (talk) 14:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

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