Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 5

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Understanding Heaven and Hell

Hi guys, can you help with this article? It is currently on Afd and the sources are in Chinese so we cannot verify it.--Lenticel (talk) 13:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the WikiProject Taoism can help you better, if it's still active. _dk 07:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok thanks!--Lenticel (talk) 08:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Jutoupi

Hi, I'm trying to fulfill an article request for a pop singer called Jutoupi. I think this, 朱約信, is his Chinese wiki entry, but I speak no Chinese, so I am asking here. If I am right and this is the correct person, I will put in a translation request, but could someone here let me know if I have the right fellow? Thanks. Chubbles 03:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! I've been informed that it is. A request is up at WP:TRANSL, in case anyone's not busy... Chubbles 03:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar templates

Hi, there are efforts to delete several barnstar templates, I think you might be interested and add your opinion here [1]. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 08:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Book or journal reference for Jiang Shi

Hi all, a few of us are working up vampire for a crack at FAC sometime soon. There is a mention of a Chinese vampire called a Jiang Shi. Was wondering whether anyone had a folklore book which could be cited as a reference with it in, which'd be good for both the vampire page and the Jiang Shi page.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

See here and here. -- Ghostexorcist 11:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

New Barnstar of National Merit

The Zhonghua Barnstar of National Merit
This is a test. nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 21:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Code: {{subst:The Zhonghua Barnstar of National Merit|message ~~~~}}

That actually looks pretty cool!--Jerry 21:47, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Just make two versions and give the awarder the choice... Миборовский 00:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Why should there be two versions of this award...I designed the image for the sole purpose of avoiding a pro-PRC POV as well as as avoiding a pro-ROC POV. If someone wants to award something with just an ROC barnstar, there is an award for that, actually there's two. nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 01:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
But who is this award supposed to go to? It reads now as an award for ethnic Chinese users who contribute to China-related articles, kind of an overly exclusive category. --Danaman5 04:11, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
What you just said is like saying the Australian Barnstar of National Merit can only be awarded to Australian editors, but that is not the point of these awards. It can go to anyone who has made significant edit to any China-related article, not only ethic Chinese editors. nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 05:40, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

It looks interesting, though the idea of "national merit" is a bit political in my view. Could you rename it to something a bit less political? John Smith's 18:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd recommend calling it just the Zhonghua Barnstar. Meanwhile, it may be too cluttering, but if there is a way to squeeze in a DPP green stripe and the Hong Kong bauhinia blakeana, it would be nice. --Nlu (talk) 23:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
There's no need to add DPP in it. It should only be the Chinese National and Communist Parties.--Jerry 23:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Which are not the only political parties in China. Миборовский 23:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Zhonghua Barnstar of Merit
Changed per John Smith's and also to allow this award to be given to those who make significant contributions to articles about the Chinese civilization around the world. nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 23:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Stop making it so political. The flag is suppose to be a flag showing the co-operation between both sides of the strait; merging both national flags together, not political parties.
I'm not trying to make anything political, but just so you know, the ROC flag is KMT-based, and the PRC flag is CPC-based.--Jerry 21:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I understand where Jerry is coming from. You say you don't want this to be political, but it is true that the barnstar brings politics into it by having two flags based around two particular political parties. It's a bit like saying the CCP is China and the KMT is Taiwan. If you don't want it to be political you have to take the politics out of it. It may be unfortunate that both the PRC and ROC flags are dominated by two political groups whereas most countries flags aren't, but that's the way it is. John Smith's 22:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually I don't think the KMT represents Taiwan. And for that matter, I don't think the ROC represents Taiwan either. So I have no objection on the design of this award.--Jerry 22:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind then. John Smith's 21:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, the PRC flag doesn't have any communist symbols on it, except the colours red and yellow... But then, the US flag also has the same colours as Republican emblems. I daresay it happens quite often in many countries that a political party's symbols resemble national symbols in some way. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:34, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The US political parties are formed after the formation of the nation, the ROC and the PRC, on the other hand, are formed after the formation of political parties.--Jerry 00:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The revised design is fine with me. I wasn't intending to block this award, I just didn't want it to be too exclusive.--Danaman5 02:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Outstanding work - well done, Nat. -- Folic_Acid | talk  04:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

These two flags are "national flags"（国旗） not "party flags“（党旗）.So there is no need to add DPP or Hong Kong flags in it.It is true that "the ROC flag is (or was)KMT-based, and the PRC flag is CPC-based" once, but they are flags of ROC & PRC not flags of KMT or CPC.

Nat, I like the job you did, really.--东北虎(Manchurian Tiger) 17:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Chinese opera on radio

Hello everybody, I know this is not the place to ask questions for personal use, but my question is so specialized that I figured it was hopeless to try at the reference desk. Can anybody tell me if there is a radio that broadcasts Chinese opera (of any variety)? Thanks in advance, --91.148.159.4 21:11, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Try here. --Ghostexorcist 19:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, there is supposed to be a channel called "East radio Shanghai - folk opera" according to that list, but in practice I never hear anything like a folk opera on it. There is also a folk opera channel called CCTV-11, which is available online but, as with other CCTV channels, its streaming is almost always interrupted once per two seconds for me, so it's impossible to watch. Is it the same with you, or maybe it's different depending on where one lives? --91.148.159.4 20:02, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Opinion requested on Xiao Xi's categorization

I'd like people's opinion on this: should Xiao Xi be categorized in Category:Liang Dynasty emperors, and should related articles (e.g., Cen Wenben) be categorized in Category:Liang Dynasty? --Nlu (talk) 19:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Another request for outside views

I'm attempting to informally mediate a dispute between two users at Dano (Korean festival), but since I have limited factual knowledge of the subject, I wondered whether anyone here might be willing/able to add their perspective to things. Thanks! -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 15:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

If it was up to me, I would merge that article into Dragon Boat Festival. It's the same festival! Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
The main question up for discussion is whether Qu Yuan is included in the celebrations in Korea, as he is in China. Do you know whether this is the case? -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 17:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Chinese character on Swiss International tailfin

What is the Chinese character on this Swiss International Airlines tailfin? [2] WhisperToMe 19:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

It is the first character of the chinese translation of Switzerland "瑞士" Pojanji 20:54, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you :) WhisperToMe 21:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Ghettos and Chinatowns?

In this article Chinatowns are mentioned as a kind of "ghetto" ... I think someone who knows a lot about american Chinatowns should have a look at this article to see if it's making sense. I was going to remove it myself, but I don't know that much. futurebird 22:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Base on the first sentence of that article I think Chinatown fits the definition of ghetto, but that section certainly deserves some clean up. Pojanji 23:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Chinese government

I guess you finally got your way and we no longer have an article on the government of China, just this mess. So when I want to find the State Food and Drug Administration of China, no place to naturally find a link to it. There is no excuse. Fred Bauder 13:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I don't see Government of the People's Republic of China deleted. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 19:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you are referring to. Could you be more specific?--Danaman5 23:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


Question about Chinese characters in Avatar intro

I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Avatar-TLAlogo.jpg

What characters are they? (As in what do they look like in text?) WhisperToMe 08:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

According to a google search, they are "降世神通" - though the second character in the logo looks nothing like itquite different from the print font.
Literally, it means something ilke "Descended [from heaven] unto the world" "supernatural abilities". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 08:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Dalian No.24 High School - request for article

I found this: http://www.dlhs24.com.cn/

Dalian No.24 High School is a sister school of a high school in Houston, but not much is available in English. So, does anyone wish to make an article about the school? WhisperToMe 22:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Renminbi or Chinese renminbi?

I've gotten myself into a bit of a revert wallwar at Renminbi over whether it should be titled "Renminbi" or "Chinese renminbi". My view is that Chinese renminbi is a neologism. Arguments drawing analogies with US Dollar etc are misconceived, since "dollar" is the currency unit, and US Dollar is the name of the currency, whereas with the Renminbi, the currency unit is the entirely different "Yuan". So my view is that it should be either Renminbi or Chinese yuan (which is currently about something else entirely) - not Chinese renminbi.

I draw support from the fact that Pound stirling is where it is and not at British Pound stirling - analogously, the currency is called "pound stirling" and its base unit the "pound" - so it's either Pound stirling or British pound, not British Pound stirling.

I'm wondering if you guys have an opinion on this? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I fully agree with you. We shouldnt be creating consistencies that do not exist in the real world. "Chinese renminbi" is redundant and follows neither common nor proper usage.--Jiang 11:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This issue has started up again. One editor kept moving the article and it kept being reverted. Finally with the article move protected, there is a new discussion on the matter. Please discuss at the article Talk page if you have any opinion. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

New template

I've created a template specifically for actors/singers in the Chinese entertainment industry and I've added it to Maggie Cheung. Please take a look - Template:Infobox Chinese actor and singer. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

More Avatar characters

I found this image, with Chinese characters: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/39/Avatar_world_map.jpg

The accompanying caption reads: "A map of the four nations"

What are the characters and what do the characters say? WhisperToMe 00:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Across the top: 群雄四分 "the heroes divide [the world? the country?] in four".
Across the bottom: 天下一匡 "correct all things under heaven" - original phrase from the Confucian Analects is "一匡天下"; extended meaning is uniting the whole nation - see Chinese reunification.
top left 水善 "water - good"
top right 土强 "earth - strong"
bottom left 火烈 "fire - fierce"
bottom right 气和 "air (see Qi) - harmony". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I posted the info to Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender#Premise :) WhisperToMe 04:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Map of China on China

Dunno if anyone still watches the namesake of this project, but I've objected to the fairly recent map change on China (the picture is in the infobox which is in a separate template: Template:Chinese/China) on the grounds of NPOV, specifically because 1) it omits all disputed territories with other countries (which, in normal practice, is indicated by colour variations), and 2) its representation of PRC vs ROC represents the (official) view of neither governments nor many Taiwan independence supporters nor Chinese reunification enthusiasts, but rather presents only one strand of view. I have suggested Image:ROC PRC comparison eng.jpg as a (temporary) replacement for the current image Image:China map.png until those NPOV problems are fixed up.

Our good friend User:Bathrobe has weighed into the debate and has reverted me. If you have an opinion on this, please join the discussion at Talk:China. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Cenotaph of SAA295- What does it say?

I found: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/The_cenotaph_of_South_Africa_Airlines_295_accident.jpg

What does it say? WhisperToMe 08:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

南非航空公司空难纪念碑： South Africa Airlines Company Air Disaster Memorial Stone. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! How is it read in Hanyu Pinyin? WhisperToMe 22:03, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

南非航空公司空难纪念碑: Nánfēi Hángkōng Gōngsī Kōngnàn Jìnìanbēi? (I capitalised the last two words on the basis that they are part of a title: you know, like Air Disaster Memorial. If you think it should be "air disaster memorial", lose the caps on the last two words... --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Chancellor of China

I've been doing some work on the backlogs, and came across this article. It seems to be a fairly important topic, but has been tagged as unsourced/unreferenced for 16 months. Perhaps someone from this project would have the resources to provide citations for the article? Pastordavid 20:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Chinese Chess Championship

Recently, the List of national chess championships has grown considerably and now we cover all major nations, except for China (which is getting very strong at traditional chess). It would be nice to cover China as well. However, I can't find a list with winners in English. I found two lists in Chinese however: [3] (men and women) and [4] (men only). It would be great if someone who can read Chinese would be so kind to translate this list (men and women) and put it in the article Chinese Chess Championship. For an example of another national chess championship, see for instance Japanese Chess Championship or Spanish Chess Championship. Shouldn't be too much work for China since the championship started in 1957 (1979 for women), with a lot of duplicated names. Best regards, Voorlandt 09:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok I managed to translate the page myself, largely with the help of [5], [6] and the transliterations in wikipedia. I am pretty sure everything is correct, still would be grateful if someone could check it over. Voorlandt (talk) 19:55, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Debate on traditional and simplified Chinese characters

Hey guys, I seem to be getting into revert wars all the time these last couple of weeks... But could you take a look at [7]? I made some edits to the introduction and added a background section, which Benjwong is reverting wholesale. He thinks I'm writing with a "mainland POV". I disagree - but I might be blind to my own biases. Some outside commentary would be appreciated. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Chinese mathematics

This article needs help, badly. SchmuckyTheCat

It looks like I might be able to pull sources on this one. I'll see what I can do when I have time.--Danaman5 (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Emperor Taizong of Tang

Emperor Taizong of Tang was a featured article candidate long ago. Apparently, the main objection at the time was that it did not discuss his reign sufficiently, an objection that I think has been remedied. I'd like to, at some point, resubmit it for featured article status. It would appear that the only criterion that it may be lacking in, I think, is its lack of footnotes. For this, I would like to request that people look at the article and add {{fact}} where an assertion appears to call for a footnote. That way, I can tell how/where people think we should add footnotes. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 23:59, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

As an additional incentive, see Wikipedia:The Core Contest. If folks work this out so that the article wins, I am more than willing to forfeit any claim to the prize. --Nlu (talk) 07:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Tang Yuhan

Tang Yuhan is an article on a doctor from Hong Kong/China. The article is under discussion at AFD, and special attention is needed from editors who can evaluate sources written in Chinese languages. GRBerry 19:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

traditional Constellations

I just thought I'd let you know that there doesn't seem to be any input on traditional constellations (excepting Mediterranean and European ones) at the Constellation wikiproject. There should be, considering these are still in use. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Astronomy/Constellations Task Force 132.205.99.122 (talk) 23:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Chinese thought

Category:Chinese thought has been nominated for merging into Category:Chinese philosophy (an alternate suggestion was merge to Category:Chinese culture). See WP:CFD 132.205.99.122 (talk) 19:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

東北大學

東北大學 is up for deletion or merging at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/東北大學. 132.205.99.122 (talk) 22:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Initially I voted to merge to Northeastern University (disambiguation), but it was pointed out that Tohoku University is never referred to as "Northeastern University" while its name in Japanese kanji is "東北大学". So I switched my vote to merge to Northeastern University (Shenyang, China) and putting a disambig message at the top of the article to lead to Tohoku University, the reason being that Tohoku University is written as 東北大学, not 東北大學. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 01:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Li Ne or Li Na

I invite wikipedians to participate in the discussion on whether 李讷, a daughter of Mao Zedong, is pronounced as Li Ne or Li Na. I have requested to move Li Na (daughter of Mao Zedong) back to Li Ne. If anyone is interested, please discuss at Talk:Li Na (daughter of Mao Zedong). Thank you for your attention. --Neo-Jay (talk) 07:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

References needed

Chancellor of China has been unsourced for over a year, and desperately needs in-text citations added to the article. Pastordavid (talk) 18:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Help needed with Chinese-speaking new editor

I don't know if this is the best place to ask, but I'll do it.

I responded to an AIV report on User:Xixidoubao, whose first fifty edits have added a lot of incorrect information regarding flights and destinations to Beijing Capital International Airport. I have given him a final warning but am still assuming good faith, and wonder if he may be a Chinese-speaking editor with limited command of English who may not realize that he's adding incorrect information. I don't know if he's also active on the Chinese WP as I can't read the language. Could someone with strong Chinese skills (preferably a native speaker) be able to reach out to him either here or on zhwiki, if he's an editor there? I would very much like to do this before having to block him. Daniel Case (talk) 04:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

This user just registered in Chinese Wikipedia only couple days ago also. Commented on his talk page there, see what happens. Aquarius • talk 17:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Five articles for Mao Zedong's children nominated for AfD

Five articles for five of Mao Zedong's children have been nominated for AfD. Please comment if you happen to be knowledegeable about them - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Li Na (daughter of Mao Zedong). Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Names of Emperors

I've tried to open a discuss of the format to be used for the naming of articles on Chinese Emperors, both at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) and at Wikipedia talk:History standards for China-related articles. Input would be appreciated. john k (talk) 22:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

The Eve of Chinese New Year has been prodded

someone has WP:PROD proposed to delete The Eve of Chinese New Year. 132.205.99.122 (talk) 23:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


Request for thoughts on article title for Emperor Zhongzong of Tang's daughter

I am planning to (soon) write an article on the daughter of Emperor Zhongzong of Tang and Empress Wei, personal name Li Guo'er (李裹兒) and title Princess Anle (安樂公主). I would like some comments on whether "Li Guo'er" or "Princess Anle" would be the more appropriate title. --Nlu (talk) 19:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm inclined to say that "Princess Anle of Tang" or something similar should be used, because that follows the convention of naming this type of article with the formal name. Emperor Zhongzong of Tang is itself a formal name, isn't it?--Danaman5 21:07, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, although that's only because of consensus at WP:NC-ZH. Since other Tang princesses aren't referred to as "of Tang" in article titles (see Princess Taiping, Princess Wencheng, Princess Pingyang), I think, if we're going with formal titles, "Princess Anle" would be sufficient. --Nlu (talk) 21:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

With no other thoughts on this matter, I think for now (and I'm planning to write this article tonight unless something else ties me up) I'll go with Princess Anle as the title; it can always be moved later. --Nlu (talk) 23:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Fake airline... article in Chinese!

I found a Chinese article of Metis TransPacific Airlines, which seems to be a fake airline that is notable for creating a booking site and having speculation about its true identity.

Anyhow, there is an incomplete Chinese article. Does anyone want to finish and fill it? WhisperToMe 05:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Chinese swords

Chinese swords has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chinese swords 132.205.99.122 (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Chinese name for Min Chen, killer of Cecilia Zhang?

I understand that Min Chen has a Chinese name, as he is a native of Shanghai. What is his Chinese name? WhisperToMe (talk) 21:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I have added the Chinese name to the article based on online reports in Chinese.--Danaman5 (talk) 05:43, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Japan was tributary state for China.

List of tributaries of Imperial China

Japan was tributary for China. 亲魏倭王. 汉倭奴国王. 大明属国日本国王.

not only Ashikaga Yoshimitsu but also 1596(Unified) Toyotimi recieved 册封 as Japanese King. Some Japanese want delete this.[8] so Chinese friend, watch out this page. HongKongriben (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Heh, good luck with that. Japanophiles significantly outnumber every other demographic group (except perhaps Americans) on Wikipedia. --Миборовский (talk) 04:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
What is 册封? That's obviously a Chinese-only term; what's it in English or Japanese? If it's some sort of seal/stamp of investiture, as the Chinese Emperors granted to the kings of Korea, Ryukyu, and their other tributaries, I'd have to say I doubt that Hideyoshi received it. I certainly could be wrong about that, but I imagine that if he did it would not only cause trouble in his relations with the Court (being a "King" under the Chinese Emperor while there's a separate Japanese Emperor who he's supposed to be loyal to, etc) but would also go against his own desires and plans to create a more powerful Japan, extricated from the Sinocentric model and acting as China's equal in diplomacy and trade.
That said, I for one would not oppose the listing of Japan as one of China's historical tributaries, as the Ashikaga did indeed pay tribute to China. LordAmeth (talk) 14:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I mentioned a while ago that what we really need is an article on Chinese imperial tributary relationships. I think this will clear up a lot of the confusion that some people have about such relationships. Mostly, editors coming and going don't want to think of their pet country as having been a tributary to China. But what I do know is:

  1. At times, they are more like trade relations.
  2. It is only by accepting a tributary relationship with imperial China that the Chinese court was even willing to have a working relationship with a foreign country.
  3. The system was used by China's neighbours in the context of their foreign relations with each other. They expected China's military support, and tributaries considered each other as equals - most of the time anyway, depending on the ruler.

I tried to do some online searching on the subject matter, but nothing very substantial came up as sources. Unless someone else can find some good online sources, this may be something that will require some book reading/researching. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It looks like there are sources out there, but I will have to wait until I get back to college to have access to most of them.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Ashikaga Yoshimitsu recieved 册封 as "日本国王", by china dynasty. Yoshimitsu united the Northern and Southern Court, then recieved 册封 by China. This 册封 represent to "Japan" country itself. and show China-Japan Diplomatic relation. moreover, after Ashikaga Yoshimitsu, this tributary relation succeeded. Japan recieved "日本国王印" 金印 from china.[9] it represent to China-Japan relation. Japanese try to hide this truth... Japan was tributary state of China, since Han dynasty("漢"倭奴国王). Japan paid tibute to Han, Sui, Tang(master dynasty of Japan), Song, Ming... Japan recieved 册封 by China dynasty also send tribute to China. Toyotomi recieved 册封 by china in Ming dynasty 萬曆 24年. (1596 丙申 / 萬曆 24年) 12月 7日 " 倭將行長, 馳報秀吉, 擇於九月初二日, 奉迎冊命於大坂〔大阪〕地方受封。 職等初一日, 持節前往, 是日卽抵大坂〔大阪〕。 次日領受欽賜圭印、官服, 旋卽佩執頂被, 望闕行五拜三叩頭禮, 承奉誥命。"

Conclusion, In history, Japan Recieved 册封 by China. Japan send 朝貢 to China. It is reasonable for including tributary list. Clerkwheelzeon (talk) 19:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


Need help from JPOV

List of tributaries of Imperial China Need protect from edit war. Japanese want omit their country in List of tributaries of Imperial China. Clerkwheelzeon (talk) 05:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Really don't feel like diving into an edit war over that article. I've had discussions on the Talk page over there before. But what's ironic here is that I remember having an argument on Talk:Japan about Japan having been influenced by China and Korea in ancient history, and part of the argument I had to put up with was that "China" and "Korea" didn't really exist back then (which makes me wonder how it was that "Japan" existed). And now that we're talking about tributaries, apparently "Japan" didn't exist back then. The argument is ridiculous. Under the same logic, we might as well begin Japanese history articles on when the English term "Japan" became popular usage. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I am certainly not going to get involved in that. Honestly, I wonder sometimes if the list of tributaries of imperial China is really all that useful. Since all countries were required to officially be tributary in order to have relations with China at all, having this list is akin to having a List of countries with which the United States has diplomatic relations, or something like that.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah the article is very problematic. I'm not sure what to do with it. Maybe one day I will sit down with some books and write an article that's actually about tributary relations of imperial China - an article like that would be much better. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 07:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
If you would like to, you can edit the article on this subject that I have started in my userspace: User:Danaman5/Workshop/Chinese tributary system. Note that it is still very preliminary, because as I mentioned above, I won't have access to good sources for the next month.--Danaman5 (talk) 07:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

東北大學

東北大學 has returned to AfD. (didn't it just close?) 132.205.99.122 (talk) 20:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Note that I'm not trying to get the page deleted. I'm trying to make it into a redirect page, as it is a dab page with only two entries, one of them being the main topic. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Category:Famous pandas

Category:Famous pandas is up for renaming/splitting. 132.205.99.122 (talk) 19:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Problem with Christian users and Christianity in China

Opinions by sinologists and Chinese people

Hi, can you help me with this issue? --Esimal (talk) 14:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

The Rape of Nanking (book) for peer review

I've listed The Rape of Nanking (book) for peer review. Please take a look. There's already plenty of criticism of the book mentioned in the article, but one editor is insisting on inflating the article with even more criticism. And surprised! He's heavily into editing Japan-related topics. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Whether he is heavily editing Japan-related topics or you are heavily editing China-related topics is not relevant in this matter. I'll assume you didn't mean to insinuate anything negative by it, but you did appear to be saying that editing Japan-related topics is somehow a sign of prejudice in the subject area of the article.
If you do feel he is acting in bad-faith, etc then please discuss how he edits, not what the gepgraphical location of the articles he edits is. John Smith's (talk) 13:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
You understand the controversy around the book. And I'm sure you remember the article's last FAC. It received three votes, all oppose, and all of them from members of the Japan military history taskforce, with none of the concern being of MoS problems, but that they dislike the content of the article. Maybe I'm assuming bad faith, but yes, I'm concerned about that. Now I'm trying to improve it for a second FAC, and a Japanese or Japan-interested editor goes and inflate the article with more criticism. So admittedly I'm a bit frustrated. I know I've expanded the criticism section of the article. When was the last time a Japan-interested editor expanded on other aspects of the article other than the criticism section? Anyway, sure, maybe I'm wrong in particular about Saintjust, and I entertained that possibility until he wrote That an editor from China has been lucky enough to edit the article all he likes on his own for the past several months is quite amazing[10]. There's mutual mistrust between me and him, with him thinking I'm trying to somehow cover up the controversy around the book. Except that evidence would seem to contradict that by the simple fact that the version I like introduces the book as being controversial and having been criticised, and already had a criticism section which I personally expanded. And you'll notice that he's trying to get the article delisted as GA based not on GA criteria, but on some unfounded assumption that I'm trying to cover up the controversy around the book. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Article content is important when assessing FA standard - MoS isn't enough. But you missed the fundamental point with the last FAC, which is that it failed for lack of interest. You can't get FA status with just a nomination, AFAIK. Hopefully you will get some useful peer reviews in the next few weeks.
As for this guy, I have no comment to make on his motivations, behaviour, etc as I'd rather not get drawn into that. But as I pointed out, the geographical orientation of what articles someone edits is not relevant - it's how they edit them that is important. If you're getting to the point where you're making assumptions about people based on the former then you probably owe yourself a wikibreak. At the very least you could set up a RfC or something. John Smith's (talk) 19:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I know MoS isn't the only concern in a FAC - and I didn't say it was. What I said was that it got three votes, all opposing, all from members of Japan military taskforce, and all had only concerns about article content. Previous experience with FAC and FAR tells me that MoS are major concerns in FA assessment. I'm not so arrogant that I think I can produce an article free of MoS concerns, in fact I kept asking for MoS critiques. If the situation was different, like perhaps, others from Japan military taskforce voting to promote, or even opposing based on at least some MoS concerns, which are perfectly neutral, I wouldn't be concerned about the possibility of bias assessment. There were I think at least 2 other editors commenting that did not vote. Your average FAC is going to get about that many editors commenting and voting. The problem wasn't a lack of interest - there's plenty of interest from Japan-interested editors. Even having said that, I have improved upon the article since that FAC. I've put in a short summary of the book (one of the problems that you yourself pointed out), and I've expanded the criticism section since, based on the critique from the other two voters who thought there wasn't enough coverage on why the book was controversial. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:38, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Sun Bin

I've filed an RFC on an anonymous user's insistence that "Sun the Mutilated" and "Sun Tzu II" be included as alternative names for Sun Bin. If anyone has an opinion on this, please discuss on Talk:Sun Bin. --Nlu (talk) 19:04, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Again, I hope people can comment on this. --Nlu (talk) 17:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Article name for Wu Zetian's lover

I'd like some opinion on this: should an article on the first well-known lover of Wu Zetian -- a man named Feng Xiaobao (馮小寶) whom she later put into the disguise of a Buddhist monk, with the name Huaiyi (懷義), be entitled Feng Xiaobao or Huaiyi? (I am leaning toward the latter.) --Nlu (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Given a lack of comment on this, I'm going to go with Huaiyi. The article can always be moved later if necessary. --Nlu (talk) 05:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Huaiyi does sound better, since that's how he is referred on formal texts anyways. Aquarius • talk 22:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Lý Nam Đế

(Will also be posted to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam.) There is an anonymous editor who insists on (without discussion) removing Chinese characters and pinyin of Lý Nam Đế. Now, before I am to treat this person as a vandal, I'd like to get some general feelings about this. If you can, please discuss the issue on Talk:Lý Nam Đế. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Overseas Chinese benevolent associations

I'm guessing that someone who knows Chinese could greatly improve the descriptions of pictures in Commons:Category:Overseas Chinese benevolent associations. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there are pictures on Commons (or that should be on Commons) that belong in this category, but which I didn't find because I didn't know where to look. - Jmabel | Talk 21:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

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