Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society/Archive 6

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Propaganda articles

See Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5#Add Propaganda in China. Here are some other options:

Add History of propaganda

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Unsure about this one myself, but it might work out as a general summary of propaganda as opposed to propaganda, which covers the concept rather than its usage. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:12, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Propaganda  4 is V4, so it deserves a V5 history of. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

But is it comparable to other articles we list under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/History#History of law and politics? feminist🩸 (talk) 03:40, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Propaganda in the Soviet Union

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Support

1. Pretty big topic I think, as nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:12, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Sure, and I think we are adding Chinese one in some related discussion alraedy. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Influenced the live of millions. The Blue Rider 09:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

• I'll note here that Propaganda in Nazi Germany is not vital, but it was rahter short lived, I am not sure if we should vote on it. Still, worth thinking about. There is no 'propaganda in Germany' article (just a disambig). There is Propaganda in Japan and a subarticle on WW2 era Japan. Few others, but I think China and Soviet Union are the only one that matter (due to long period of existence, high intensity and number of people affected). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:34, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add Propaganda in the United States

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Support

1. Support as nom. Note that this is really History of propaganda in the United States. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:12, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Per Piotrus. Propaganda in the US has never been very strong, so adding this would be US-centric. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

1. Hmmm. I am not sure it is vital. Propaganda in the US has never been very strong; sure, there were war peroods etc. but compared to totalitarian countries, it was not a very serious phenomena. I feel that would likely be US centric. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

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US university removals, batch 1

As I said above in #Add education concepts, I think we should remove many US universities we currently list. Many of the US universities we list are known more for athletics than academics, but in that case we should compare their significance to sports teams ... and we only list 56 sports teams worldwide compared to 92 universities just from America. None of the universities I nominate below are members of the Association of American Universities (a rough indicator of research intensity and academic prestige), are middling in academics-based university rankings, and don't otherwise have stand-out features (history, religious affiliation, subject, demographic makeup, etc.).

Remove Baylor University  5

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Support

As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

1. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Not particularly well known. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. One of the oldest and most influential universities in Texas and the wider West. It is probably of one the most influential religiously-affiliated schools in the country. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:27, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per Presidentman. Also has a really good medical school which isn't factored into traditional academic rankings. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. Consider myself neutral for now, per Presidentman. feminist🚰 (talk) 01:25, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Florida State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Dissent here - I see it occasionally mentioned here and there. I think it is a bit above the batch listed here. Mind you, it's a subjective feeling based on name recognition. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:55, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Swap: Remove Indiana University, add Indiana University Bloomington  5

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It's a university system that is neither particularly large nor particularly prestigious.

Support

1. Swap with Indiana University Bloomington  5, which is plausibly VA5 due to its reasonably high national and international rankings and AAU membership. It's at least a tier above the universities I'm proposing to remove this round, imo. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Swap per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:24, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Wow I thought this entry already referred to IU Bloomington. We don't list even more notable university systems (like University of California) so this is a must-swap. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Swap per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Swap per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Iowa State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Kansas State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Louisiana State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Mississippi State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove North Carolina State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Oklahoma State University–Stillwater

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Oregon State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Syracuse University  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I am neutral. It's an R1 school indicating very high research output, has a storied history in college basketball, and has a bunch of extremely famous non-sports alumni from all around the world, indicating an international reputation. Also has more interwikis than the rest of this list. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

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Remove University of Alabama  5

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Support

As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

1. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not a great research school but has been an important cultural phenomenon and household name in the United States thanks to their success in American football. Besides Notre Dame Fighting Irish football  5 which is already listed, this is the school associated with American college football. Probably not well-known outside the United States but it is known well enough within the United States to warrant inclusion. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

   As a side note, I'm not convinced we need both University of Notre Dame  5 and Notre Dame Fighting Irish football  5. I feel like the parent article sufficiently covers the football team. Maybe this is another thing we can remove (might be good since sports teams is still over quota as well)? Aurangzebra (talk) 19:14, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

   Weirdly, I feel like the opposite is true of Alabama, where the football team is more influential than the school. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 20:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

   Yea I think I'd be fine with a swap for the football team for Alabama. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

   Yeah, a swap makes more sense to me. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:28, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

2. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Consider myself neutral for this. Seems like it's at least as significant as some of the sports teams we currently list. feminist🚰 (talk) 12:32, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

• I would support a swap with the football team, but not absolute removal. The crimson tide is very iconic to college football, and Alabama even has a coach on the VA5 list. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

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Remove University of Kentucky

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove University of Mississippi

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove University of Oklahoma

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove University of South Carolina

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove University of Tennessee

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Washington State University

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 19:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:12, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Sex symbol

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Important concept for culture, sexuality, sociology, etc. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Totalibe (talk) 23:12, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:26, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Shouldn't we promote the more general Celebrity first.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

@TonyTheTiger That concept is not V5 yet?? I'd certainly support it too. Even more vital than the one I proposed here, but I think both are V5. Celebrity should be V4, frankly. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:03, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Do you want to do a separate nom or make this a double? Still thinking I might only support one.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

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Remove magazines

As I said previously, I think we have way too many magazines (89 articles), considering that magazines as a medium of publication are in quick decline due to the rise of alternative forms of media, mostly over the internet. We can cut some newspapers too, another medium of publication which is in quick decline. The nominations below are all among the least-viewed articles on magazines last year.

Swap: Remove Famous Funnies, The Funnies, and Funnies on Parade, add American comic book  5

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These appear to be significant as precursors to comic books, but they only have between 5 and 19 daily page views last year.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 11:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
5. (Weak support addition.) J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   It fits well under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Arts#Comics 2. For comparison, we list Chinese, French, Japanese and Korean comics. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:32, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

   Fair enough. American comics are definitely a distinct genre, even though it doesn't have as catchy a name. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:08, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Town & Country (magazine)

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Had only 67 daily page views last year, though it has a long history.

Support

1. Weak support as nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Inc. (magazine)

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76 daily views. We have plenty of more notable business publications listed at Level 5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Smithsonian (magazine)

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84 daily views. The Smithsonian Institution  4 is vital, its affiliated mass-market publication is not.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 11:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Us Weekly

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89 daily views, and redundant to People (magazine)  5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 11:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
6. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Time Out (magazine)

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132 daily views. Founded as a magazine, now primarily known as a content farm for local and travel activities. We rightly don't list stuff like Yelp, we shouldn't list Time Out either.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:53, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   @TonyTheTiger: Why? QuicoleJR (talk) 20:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   The article only shows that the London version has abandoned print. The article does not really support the nomination statement.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:14, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Radio Times

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126 daily views; a British weekly listings magazine devoted to television and radio programme schedules doesn't sound that notable. The BBC  4 is vital, a publication dedicated to its schedules is not.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Support. I think we list way too many magazines but to its credit this is the most vital of this set. Maybe too banal rather than a publication of note to cultural attitudes though. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   Would Television in the United Kingdom be a better listing? feminist🩸 (talk) 09:28, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. This has a very long history of influence in the UK, nor does it only list BBC schedules. Iostn (talk) 11:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove Slate (magazine)

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268 daily views. It's primarily known as an American news website, and it's not a particularly vital one.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:59, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Men's Health

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103 daily views. We already list Esquire (magazine)  5 for men, which is a publication with a much longer history and much higher page views (325 daily).

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 16:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Empire (magazine)

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150 daily views. Not a particularly long history.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 16:46, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. One of the most influential current magazines on film criticism. Iostn (talk) 11:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove PC Gamer

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157 daily views. Not a particularly long history.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 16:46, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

   Support swap. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:25, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

2. Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
5. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Swap with Famitsu per Iostn. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:04, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Possible swap for Famitsu, which is more influential in its market of origin than PC Gamer is in the US or UK? Iostn (talk) 11:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

That's a good suggestion (insofar that listing a video game magazine is warranted). J947 ‡ ^edits 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

@Makkool and Hanif Al Husaini: - what do you think of a swap? starship.paint (RUN) 13:00, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't support it. I think we need less magazines, and I'd be fine to not list any video game magazines. --Makkool (talk) 13:21, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I oppose a swap per Makkool. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:42, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove No. 6 (Violet, Green and Red)

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Stub. Being 7th on the current List of most expensive paintings is all this has going for it, and that's not enough to be vital IMHO. 1 interwiki, 95 daily views. Nothing stands out here either. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:43, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
3. czar 06:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
4. I guess I can nominate Color field separately.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:34, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

• Wasn't this one recently nominated? Where would this leave us in regard to Color field painting?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:09, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
  • Was it? I don't think it was. Nominate color field if you want. starship.paint (RUN) 13:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
    • Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles/Level/5/Archive_16#Contemporary_paintings,_and_thoughts_on_visual_arts_topics_in_general-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
      • Right, nobody objected there though to this one. starship.paint (RUN) 13:13, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
        • I also commented in the discussion on that one about color field work. After watching the movie The Kill Room on my flight I am convinced that color field painting is just a tax break for people. People can't really like looking at fields of solid color that much, but for some reason color field painting has some very highly valued work. I just have trouble looking at a field of color and thinking this is influential or vital. But there must be one color field work that is the greatest of them all that we should keep.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:50, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Beat the Whites with the Red Wedge  5

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"It is considered symbolic of the Russian Civil War in Western publications, and is often used in album art and advertisements." I don't think this is enough to make it vital, and subjectively I don't recall ever seeing it. 9 interwikis, ~70 daily views. Notable but I don't think it is vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:51, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
2. czar 06:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Maybe the most famous example of Constructivism (art), and one that has been widely parodied and referenced Totalibe (talk) 10:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Iron Man (2008 film) and/or Avengers: Endgame

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• Iron Man was added to the Library of Congress in 2022 and is the film that kicked off the MCU, which has become the biggest box office franchise and one of the biggest franchises in the world. The MCU would not have had the same success if Iron Man flopped and wasn't as well received when it released, especially because the character of Iron Man wasn't nearly as popular at the time compared to characters like Spider-Man and the X-Men which also had films releasing around that time.

• Avengers: Endgame was a cultural phenomenon when it released with it having 11 years and 21 movies of buildup, while coming off of a cliffhanger ending in Avengers: Infinity War the previous year. It capped off the MCU's first Saga and concluded the stories of multiple characters who had been with the MCU since the early years. The film made over US$1.2 billion in just its opening weekend at the box office, crushing the previous record, and ended up with nearly US$2.8 billion, becoming the highest grossing film at the box office (not accounting for inflation) at the time before Avatar reclaimed the crown later with a theatrical re-release. Endgame sits in second place still as of today.

Support

1. As nominator I support adding at least one of them. -- ZooBlazer 18:57, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support for Iron Man as the start of the franchise with cultural significance. Weak support for Avengers: Endgame given the box office achievements and cultural phenomenon of it, though preference for Iron Man if Endgame is deemed too recent. Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:08, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose for now since Marvel Cinematic Universe  5 is only VA5. If we can get it to VA4 (which I would Support at this point), would support one of these being added. I believe both these movies are quite significant but I don't think their specific significance is anything that isn't already covered by the MCU article and we are already over-quota on movies. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:33, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
2. We have too many films listed, this is not top 100 most vital movies. The Blue Rider 00:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per Blue Rider czar 06:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Important recent movies, sure. But Marvel Cinematic Universe  5 is already vital. I tend to think that if we have an umbrella article at a given level, we don't need to list multiple child articles. If MCU gets promoted to V4, I'd surely support those additions. For now, I'll abstain. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:20, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

   Looking at the level 4s and 5s, it wouldn't be out of place to make Marvel Cinematic Universe a level 4 article, similar to how Star Wars is level 4 and 3 of its films are level 5s. Gonnym (talk) 17:43, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

   @Gonnym Go ahead anbd propose it. I'd weekly support it; weakly b/c it is newer than those franchises and who knows how it will age. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Based on some of the comments here, I have gone ahead with nominating Marvel Cinematic Universe to move up to a level 4 article. -- ZooBlazer 05:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Piotrus: Pinging as you have not yet responded to this new nomination. Trailblazer101 (talk) 22:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Lex Luthor

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Same rationale as with Green Hornet and Catwoman. 34 interwikis, ~1,1k daily views, no impact on popculture. Being a recurring Superman nemesis is not enough. Joker at least got his own movie, until LL does, I think he won't be vital enough - his slot should go to something from folklore or mythology, preferably non-Western. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:51, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom, except that I see this as essentially as a swap for Wolverine. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

   Wolverine is discussed here for those who want to click through. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

3. per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:14, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
4. czar 06:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. He is the prominent Superman nemesis and one of the few comics villains I would be able to name if you asked me to (the others are batman villains).-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Roses Are Red

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This is among the most iconic poems of the English language.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak conditional support if there is quota. It is reasonably common but the aritcle does not suggest it is very influential. Good cases could be made for adding of poems by famous authors instead. I'd rather see Humpty Dumpty  5. But sure, if we have room, let's have both. Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star  5 is V5 at least. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   Roses Are Red

   Humpty Dumpty's chance?

   Much better than

   The Humpty Dance-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:45, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   Why is Humpty Dumpty not VA5? QuicoleJR (talk) 02:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   Probably because he had a great fall.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:39, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

3. Totalibe (talk) 10:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
4. This is very well-known. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Strong Oppose; Short-term popularity ≠ vitality. The Blue Rider 15:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:The Blue Rider, can you explain your objection based on its short-term popularity when it has been around for hundreds of year.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:TonyTheTiger, can you explain your fallacious counter-argument when the fact that it existed for hundreds of years doesn't mean it was popular throughout the whole period of time. The Blue Rider 22:20, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:The Blue Rider, per the article, it has been popular since the time of the Marx Brothers, so lets call it 100 years at least, which I think makes short-term popularity incorrect.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   No the article doesn't say anything like that, instead, it was used by the Marx Brothers once but that doesn't make it popular. The Blue Rider 23:46, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

   I think the article is implying that it has been in pop culture for a long time. It certainly does not say anything about it being some newly popular item.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:05, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:The Blue Rider, also, the article has no content related to anything in the last 10 years, if not several decades, which makes the short-term popularity comment a bit peculiar.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:42, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   The article does imply in the lead that it has become popular recently, but that doesn't even matter, we both know that's true. The Blue Rider 12:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:The Blue Rider, Where the article states "It has become a cliché for Valentine's Day" and all of the pop culture use examples content of the article are from individuals (Roger Miller, Chico Marx and Benny Hill) who all died over 30 years ago, I would interpret that to mean that the it became cliche for Valentine's Day in the 20th century.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   It was used a couple of times throughout its existence but a far cry from being popular, only recently it has became wildly used; there are so many more influential poems or poets that we could list instead. The Blue Rider 16:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:The Blue Rider, Nothing in the article supports that statement about (recently). What is your support for recently (in the article)? It was very popular when I was younger (40ish years ago), which is supported by examples from people who have died over 30 years ago. What do you mean by recently? I don't think there are many poems as influential as this one.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   Okay, I did a bit of research and it was popular for more time than I thought but I stand by my oppose. The Blue Rider 17:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

   User:The Blue Rider, I have edited your vote to reflect what we have been discussing for a half dozen exchanges.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

2. Roses are red / violets are blue / this is not vital / and neither are you (sorry). J947 ‡ ^edits 20:36, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
3. czar 06:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
4. I think we should focus on missing broader concepts before adding marginal individual works, thanks. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Paradiplomacy

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A bit niche. Sister city  5, its subtopic, I'm also unsure about, but listing both at this level seems overkill IMO.

Support

1. Weak support as nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:14, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support. "the involvement of non-central governments in international relations". Does not seem like an important concept, ping me if you disagree. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Not a vital topic for international relations, would rather list realism (international relations). The Blue Rider 09:12, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
5. I don't think the fact that this is a parent of a VA makes it VA.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:44, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I don't think the fact that this is a parent of a VA makes it VA.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:44, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   TonyTheTiger, is this rationale intended to be in support or in opposition? J947 ‡ ^edits 21:04, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   In favor of removing.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:08, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Arena  5

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A very common type of cultural venue. 44 interwikis. The indoor counterpart to Stadium  4. I'm not sure whether to place this under Cultural venues or Sports.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 10:56, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Historically important too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:12, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:59, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:32, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Rock and Roll Hall of Fame  5

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I know we have too many museums, but this has 60 interwikis and 2338 daily page views last year, which is higher than every US museum we currently list (next highest is Hollywood Walk of Fame  5 at 2110 followed by Metropolitan Museum of Art  4 at 1335 and Museum of Modern Art  4 at 1023). Plus, it's not just a museum, as it also serves as an important indicator of the vitality of popular musicians.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 18:17, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:29, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Definitely seems important. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:33, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Madison Square Garden  5

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We list nine specific stadiums, all of them outdoor. If we are to list one indoor arena, it's this one. As with #Add Arena, not sure whether to place this under Cultural venues or Sports, but I'm leaning Sports.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 11:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom.TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:58, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
4. This building is world famous. Move vital then a bunch of minor towns or islands we list that nobody has heard about. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Sberbank

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I'm not convinced Russia needs a bank, especially when we don't list anything from Canada, Italy, India, etc. Either of Royal Bank of Canada, Toronto-Dominion Bank, UniCredit, State Bank of India, or UBS  5 (which I nominated above) would be larger than Sberbank in terms of total assets.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:13, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 04:04, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:20, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Walgreens

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Not even the largest pharmacy chain in its country; that would be CVS Health, which we don't list.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:06, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
   1. OK with swapping with CVS Health. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap with CVS Health. Interstellarity (talk) 13:10, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support swap with CVS Health. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Support swap with CVS. I see that Dow Jones Industrial Average is swapping them out next week.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:28, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• What is the quota here? Seems a bit US-centric. I'd support removal if we are over quota, otherwise I'd rather see a swap proposal or additions to feel the quota. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:07, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

  User:Piotrus: FYI, sub-categories quotas were removed. See Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5#out of a quota of XXX - deision to remove subquotas added/drafted without discussion for relevant information. The Blue Rider 00:52, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

  Politics and economics is currently over quota (1857/1600). feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 16:47, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

  Quota was lowered from 1875 without discussion. Vileplume (talk) 14:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

  I see, I've restored the old quotas for now. When were the quotas changed, and who did it? Thanks, feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 08:28, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Nude (art)

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Too lazy to provide a rationale to something obviously vital. The Blue Rider 22:29, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 22:29, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:14, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
3. yes Aurangzebra (talk) 22:34, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:59, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Expatriate

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As a concept, it's at least as important as Foreign worker and Migrant worker, both of which we list at this level.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 03:14, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Sure. Disclaimer: I am an expat :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:52, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Very important topic. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:26, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support an important topic in 21st century human migration. Gizza (talk) 09:09, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Virgin Galactic

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Very low revenue and employee count compared to other companies on the list. It operates space tourism, a topic which is not even listed at V5 – and it's not the only company providing such services.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 12:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:14, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:58, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Humpty Dumpty  5

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An importnat youth classic, obviously vital per comments above (in Roses are Red). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. One of the most iconic fairy tales. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:18, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per above. Surprised that it's not already added. Gizza (talk) 22:46, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:19, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Financial services  5

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As a subtopic of Service (economics)  4, surely this is important enough for VA5?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 17:44, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Major concept. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:25, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Fan fiction  5

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A major form of fiction publishing.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 08:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:18, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Popular genre of fiction, and has honestly produced some of the best stories I have ever read. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:35, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:37, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Doh. Big thing these days. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Doujinshi  5

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A major form of publishing in Japan, especially as derivative works of Manga  4. It has twice the page views of Fan fiction  5 which I nominated above.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 08:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Agreed with the above. While this is primarily Japanese culture, it has global reach too. Good enough to countery some sysbias at v5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 03:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add People's Liberation Army

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From the article: "The PLA is the world's largest military force (not including paramilitary or reserve forces) and has the second largest defense budget in the world. China's military expenditure was US$292 billion in 2022, accounting for 13 percent of the world's defense expenditures." We list the British Armed Forces  5, the Russian Armed Forces  5, and the United States Armed Forces  5.

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:39, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
3. They are the world's second or third-largest employer and has been involved in several conflicts. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Weakly, per nom and Tabu Makiadi. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:18, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose. It is large but hasn't fought any modern or significant conflict outside WW2/CCW and even that is iffy since infobox states official formation as 1947. UK, Russian and American forces are both historically and presently significant and engaged (well, not British in the latter regard, for the most part, but historically, sure). For now it is a proverbial paper tiger. Let's wait few more years until PRC invades Taiwan and WW3 starts, then it will be V5 easily. I'd be open top considering adding Military history of China instead, however. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Piotrus. The Blue Rider 20:29, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Make-up artist  5

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The trade which specializes in applying Cosmetics  4 and Prosthetic makeup on your face. Considering that we list both Barber  5 and Hairdresser  5 at level 5 (Hairstyle  4 is level 4), make-up artist feels appropriate for level 5.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 14:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. I would say that this makes VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:49, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:56, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Context (linguistics)

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Important concept in linguistics/semiotics/anthropology/sociology/anthropology. 48 interwikis and Social Studies is under quota. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 07:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
2. support --Makkool (talk) 20:07, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:17, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:01, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Historical materialism and Dialectical materialism

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Both historical and dialectical materialism have a foundational role in shaping Marxist theory. These concepts, developed by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, are fundamental to understanding class struggle, historical development, and societal change. They have an enduring relevance in discussions surrounding politics, philosophy, and historical interpretation, contributing to a comprehensive understanding of key concepts that have shaped intellectual history.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 20:28, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Sure, vital 5 easily, classic stuff. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:12, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Per The Blue Rider. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Note: if this passes dialectical materialism should go to the philosophy section. The Blue Rider 17:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

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Swap Labour Day for International Workers' Day

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The article on Labour Day seems to be about a generic term for various different days around the world when workers are celebrated, often informally. But International Workers' Day is about a specific day that the workers of the world themselves set and celebrate as their own. It has a unique history and cultural significance, rather than just being a broad umbrella term. Labour Day is International Workers' Day in most countries, with only a spattering of exceptions, mostly in the anglosphere. The article for "Labour Day" has only 9 interwikis; International Workers' Day has 112! The article for Labour Day gets 566 page views per day, while the article for International Workers' Day averages 692 pageviews per day. --Grnrchst (talk) 23:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --Grnrchst (talk) 23:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Sure, makes sense. The Blue Rider 04:04, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 20:22, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:02, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:02, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
7. feminist🚰 (talk) 05:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
8. Vileplume (talk) 22:45, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
9. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Eton College

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Eton is an institution with a long history. Notably, it has been the secondary school of choice for much of Britain's elite. Its alumni include twenty Prime Ministers, members of the royal family, and many others who are distinguished in their fields. We are under quota in culture, and there is precedent for listing secondary institutions (Summerhill School  5).

Support

1. As nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:25, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 10:30, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Fair, although education may be due for a serious shakeup (for example Secondary school  5, nominated below, is more important than Eton). feminist🚰 (talk) 07:52, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:38, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Millennium Development Goals and/or Sustainable Development Goals  5

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Kyoto Protocol above made me check this, and, sigh, another oversight. 50-70 interwikis, major UN initative, I just wonder - add both or one? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:28, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator, for now support both. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:28, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Nice catch; support both, easily. The Blue Rider 09:09, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support SDG, weak support MDG as it has been superseded. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 10:16, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support SDG only per Feminist. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:08, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
5. SDG per HAH-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap: Remove Interactive Brokers, add Charles Schwab Corporation  5

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One is significantly larger than the other.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 03:46, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:42, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 09:25, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support removal. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:12, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Staple food  5

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This is quite clearly a vital concept. Staple foods are part of everyone's lives.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Basic enough for V5. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:40, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:46, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Academic dishonesty  5

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Important concept missing from education/science sections. Broader then Scientific misconduct  5 which is listed under our STEM section. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Has always been relevant but even more so now in the post-COVID era. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:36, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🚰 (talk) 07:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:55, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

On a related note, Hoax may merit addition.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:53, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Stretching  5

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This looks like an oversight. Stretching is an important topic in relation to exercise and flexibility and is close to Level 4 vitality. Should clearly be here.

Support

1. Support as nom. Gizza (talk) 23:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Certainly. Made me think of Yawn  5- - that's V5, ok. -_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Stretching should definitely be at VA5, and I would easily support it at VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:12, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
5. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:07, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

To me, exercise and stretching fit better in Health and Fitness than "Sports, games and recreation" but currently other exercises like push-ups are in the "Other individual sports" section of SGR. Gizza (talk) 23:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Auction  5

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An extremely common way goods and services are bought and sold.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:36, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:44, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:11, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:12, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Vital enough for V4 IMHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:04, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Support big omission. I've thought about it at level 4 before. Gizza (talk) 11:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Mother Jones (magazine) for Stern (magazine)

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Magazines in general needs significant reduction of American/Anglophone bias, and Stern is much more influential in Germany than Mother Jones is in the US (and I would argue by extension, worldwide as a larger part of German media). Stern had much more of an important role as an investigative outlet in the late 20th century, in spite of its decline in recent years, whereas Mother Jones more than anything seems to stand out most for betraying the values it was founded on.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support removal. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:35, 22 February 2024 (UTC) Support swap. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap.SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:22, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support swap. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

If I'm reading the list correctly, Der Spiegel  5 is the only magazine from continental Europe that is listed. Is Stern the second-most-important magazine from non-Anglophone Europe? feminist🩸 (talk) 01:35, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Marie Claire is the other one from continental Europe (France), although the article is mostly about the US and UK editions. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:37, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

There is also Elle (magazine)  5 Iostn (talk) 21:25, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Hmm right, these two are such a household name in the English language that I instinctively thought of them as Anglophone. Perhaps a better question would be: is Stern the most important magazine from non-Anglophone Europe which we don't currently list? feminist🩸 (talk) 09:26, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

My initial thought that there's possibly Charlie Hebdo, although that's one with quite a different subject matter and I'm somewhat skeptical that its international renown wasn't just inflated by the shooting which rather distorts things while trying to figure out how vital the magazine itself is.

I did look for some other important European magazines and found L'Espresso which I had heard of before but am not really that familiar with, which is similar to Stern but Italian, although even proportionate to Germany's higher population, L'Espresso's circulation count is much lower, so Stern still appears to surpass it. L'Espresso may still pass as vital but Stern seems like a much-more clear-cut case imo. Iostn (talk) 12:38, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, this is enough for me to support. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

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Swap: Add Ravioli  5, remove Capellini

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Capellini is the least important pasta we list: it only has 17 interwikis and is essentially a thinner type of Spaghetti  5. We don't list any stuffed pasta, and ravioli is pretty important.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 13:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:49, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:19, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Chak-Chak

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Very obscure (48 daily page views last year).

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 13:18, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:07, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
3. I am sure we can find more non-Western foods that are vital and can help us address sysbias. This is not it. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support Even the correct stats I posted below are low.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Tatar cuisine is enough. Vileplume (talk) 01:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Actually ~68 average pageviews, the article was moved last year resulting in faulty pageview statistics if you don't check for redirects.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

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Swap: Remove Lai fun, add Char siu  5

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Lai fun is very obscure (20 daily views last year) and is more a variety of noodle than a main dish. There are plenty of more important types of food to list from South China. Char siu, for example, is often served with lai fun, but it's a much more common dish (394 daily views) with more global reach and different regional varieties – just generally a lot more to write about.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 13:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:00, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Seems like an improvement.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:05, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:49, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add American Express

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Another instrumental financial services company.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:18, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:18, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not really popular outside US. I call sysbias... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:55, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Piotrus. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:21, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Meh. Amex had a 4.61% worldwide market share by payment volume in 2022, compared to 38.73% for Visa and 24% for Mastercard. While American Express credit cards are accepted at 99% of U.S. merchants that accept credit cards (Costco being the notable exception), they are much less accepted in Europe and Asia. While Amex is probably more important than at least some of the banks we list at this level, adding it feels America-centric. Would probably support if we weren't over quota in this section. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 16:18, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Phonics  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:46, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Important. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:19, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Intonation (linguistics)  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:26, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Important. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:21, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Sidewalk chalk

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From National Toy Hall of Fame. Just 2 interwikis and 31 interwikis is not impressive but this is one of those 'everyday life' things that people may not think about much - but it is a popular toy worldwide I believe, and not that recent. More vital than a bunch of recent video games we list IMHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:57, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:08, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Toys don't seem to have a lot of interwikis, even famous ones, so we shouldn't use it as a metric. Sidewalk chalk has been widely used for many years, vital to me. The Blue Rider 12:19, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Chalk  5 is only VA5, and I'm not sure if this is an important enough subtopic to counteract that. I might support this if we elevate chalk to VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 03:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per QJR.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
3. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Tone (linguistics)  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:28, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Replace Avenue Q with Folia

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It's one of the oldest musical themes in European music, used by over 150 composers. I'm not sure what to replace it with, but Avenue Q popped up as a rather recent topic.

Support

1. as proposal --Makkool (talk) 17:56, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
2. Support --Thi (talk) 13:31, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
3. 〜 Festucalex • talk 10:17, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Note that this old discussion was revived on 3 March 2024. I am recommending leaving it open for two weeks -> 18 March 2024 to be safe. starship.paint (RUN) 08:25, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

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Swap Komi language with Udmurt language

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Udmurtia is the most populous of the Uralic republics of Russia, and Udmurt has 270k native speakers compared to Komi’s 100k. OhnoitsvileplumeXD (talk) 16:43, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. OhnoitsvileplumeXD (talk) 16:43, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support removal of Komi language only, oppose addition of Udmurt. I do not consider a language with ~100k speakers to be vital now or historically. Nor 270k. That's linguistic trivia. Neither Udmurts nor Komi peoples are vital and I think it is ridiculous for us to list languages spoken by non-vital ethnic groups. We should have a rule that languages are vital only if their corresponding ethnic groups are vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

   We list all 21 Russian republics, and we don’t really list the ethnic groups of “nation states”. OhnoitsvileplumeXD (talk) 13:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

3. Support removal and oppose addition per Piotrus. starship.paint (RUN) 14:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Opposing removal of Komi due to its history (written documents exists from the 14th century). I agree that Udmurt has more native speakers, so I would add it in addition to Komi. --Makkool (talk) 18:53, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

1. Alternatively, we could add Erzya language or Mari language, which are more widely spoken, but are indigenous to lesser-known republics. All 4 have similar numbers of page views, however. OhnoitsvileplumeXD (talk) 13:22, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add Coming of age  5

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Feels important enough when we list Child  3, Preadolescence  4, Child labour  4, Child abuse  5, etc.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
4. At V5, reasonable. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Coop (Switzerland)

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A retailer that only operates in Switzerland, no global significance.

Support

1. As nominator. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 03:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:58, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Medtronic

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We have four pharmaceutical companies and dozens of computing device companies, I think it's fair to list at least one medical device company.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 03:50, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. User:Feminist, Does MDT deserve to be listed before Thermo Fisher Scientific?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:41, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

   I was thinking pacemaker when I nominated Medtronic, but either company is fine. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add Retail banking  5

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The most common type of Bank  3 that people interact with.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 15:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support both retail and investment banking are clearly vital at this level. Gizza (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Banquet

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A common way for people to dine together.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:34, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:46, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:56, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Burger King

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The fifth-largest American fast food chain. How much fast food representation do we need?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 03:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap with KFC per below. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:56, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with KFC per Aurangzebra, plus the fact that it is a Christmas tradition in Japan. I'm not 100% sure that Burger King isn't vital, but I know that KFC is more vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:56, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Those are global companies and popculture icons to some degree. KFC  5 should be here too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

1. I don't think 3 is too much fast food representation though I would agree that perhaps Burger King is redundant with the inclusion of McDonald's which bests it in almost every single way. I would propose a swap with KFC which has more global franchises, more countries served (a whopping 145), and more iconic branding/history. According to its Wikipedia page, it was also one of the first fast food chains ever to expand internationally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aurangzebra (talk • contribs) 09:34, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

   KFC is already partially covered by PepsiCo  5, but otherwise, I'd support the swap. Vileplume (talk) 01:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

2. User:Feminist, what are the top 4?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:11, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

   Per List of the largest fast food restaurant chains, it's McDonald's  4, Subway (restaurant)  5, Starbucks  5, and KFC  5. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:30, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Morgan le Fay  5

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For fictional characters ("This section contains 127 articles out of a quota of 130."). Right now we have King Arthur at V4, and at V5 we also list Guinevere, Lancelot and Merlin. Morgan le Fay has 38 to Guinevere's 40 interwikis but beats her in daily page views (~1,600 to ~1,300). Subjectively, I think Morgan is better known, but since there's quota room, why not add her for now rather than swap/remove someone? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:51, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:13, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
3. I would put her over Guinevere. starship.paint (RUN) 11:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add historical racial concepts

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From discussion above, I think this merits a discussion, as distasteful those concepts may be. They unfortunately but undeniably influenced lives of millions. 'History of law and politics' lists Historical race concepts  5 with a subtopic Aryan race  5" alraedy. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Add Mongoloid

Per above. "Yellow race" redirects there. 60 interwikis, ~1.1k daily page views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Not going to support a proposal that would consider several obsolete categories of scientific racism "vital" to the encyclopedia. Having "Historical race concepts" on VA5 is enough as it is, let's not give this subject undue weight. --Grnrchst (talk) 20:54, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Grnrchst. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Grnrchst. --Thi (talk) 09:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Add Caucasian race

Per above. Not to be confused with White people  5 (where "white race" redirects to). 63 interwikis, over 3k daily page views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. See above. --Grnrchst (talk) 20:54, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Grnrchst. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Grnrchst. --Thi (talk) 09:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Add Negroid

Per above. Not to be confused with Black people  5 (where "black race" redirects to). 53 interwikis, ~415 daily page views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. See above. --Grnrchst (talk) 20:54, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Grnrchst. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Grnrchst. --Thi (talk) 09:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Teladoc Health

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This seems to be the prominent player in the Telehealth space, although that space is a bit fragmented. They were the rage during the height of the pandemic. They now serve 130 countries.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. as nom.TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Still way too early to tell how notable they will be. They are also currently "only" worth 3.5 billion which is orders of magnitude smaller than the vast majority of companies we list. I think Telehealth  5 covers this area sufficiently. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:20, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Aurangzebra. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Aurangzebra. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:50, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• I was the page creator of this page.

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Add Mean Girls

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One of the most culturally influential films of all time.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 09:00, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Recentism; not top-importance in field czar 06:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Czar. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:22, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose --Thi (talk) 10:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Gesture  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:17, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Facepalm level. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:34, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Gestures. starship.paint (RUN) 16:52, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Criminal conversion

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This is an obscure subtopic of Theft  4, and I doubt it is one of the more important ones. Only 6 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:46, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:06, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support --Makkool (talk) 16:37, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
4. "a crime, limited to parts of common law systems outside England and Wales". Too niche. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Simulation  5

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Is this more of a social sciences or a technology topic?

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:24, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support for Technology starship.paint (RUN) 09:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support for Technology. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Support for Technology. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
6. Support somewhere. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
7. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:35, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

More of a technology topic I'd say.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Teaching  5

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Overlaps with a bunch of things like Education  2 but at V5 it should be listed. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:23, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Should be V4. We can easily replace a university or a person article with this. starship.paint (RUN) 09:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Support Gizza (talk) 01:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add White guilt

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Important concept in modern social sciences as well as discourse related to racism. 4 interwikis, ~200 daily page views. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Western-centric and somewhat recent/niche. Would prefer listing Collective responsibility  5 instead. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:34, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Feminist. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:47, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose --Thi (talk) 10:12, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Crying  5

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I think this is more of a social science (psychology) topic than a pure science one, but it should be listed somewhere.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:09, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Cries. starship.paint (RUN) 16:50, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Sigh. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
5. There are so many misses :´( --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:21, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
6. We most certainly have a long way to go until V5 is stable T_T Vileplume (talk) 02:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Laughter  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:24, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Why is this not listed? Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:17, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support Hahaha, another one we missed!--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 17:04, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Vileplume (talk) 18:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC) How many facepalms do we have left hehe
5. Ha. Ha. Ha. Sigh. Facepalm again. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:20, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Imitation  5

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Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Essential concept in psychology. The Blue Rider 19:40, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Essential concept in psychology. Star Ship Paint 16:54, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Essential concept in psychology. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:15, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume (talk) 23:46, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Psychological stress  5

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Who does not feel stressed? Not sure if this should be placed in Society (Psychology) or Health.

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 14:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Absolutely, per nom. Certainly more vital than some individuals or artworks... starship.paint (RUN) 15:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
3. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
5. Of course. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap: Remove Taipei People, add The Phantom of the Opera (novel)

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Taipei People: 37th least viewed VA5/Arts article according to the bottom 10% list I've posted earlier. ~12 daily pageviews, 1 interwiki. Although praised in the Receptions section, I think in this case the obscurity outweighs the acclaim (and the high opinions are cited only to two people anyway). Moreover, we already list some other Chinese 20th century fiction such as Rickshaw Boy  5, Diary of a Madman (Lu Xun)  5, Fortress Besieged  5 and Red Sorghum (novel)  5, all of which get more pageviews.

The Phantom of the Opera: One of the most famous works of Gothic fiction, ~1000 daily pageviews, 39 interwikis, so may adaptations the list has its own page. Used to be on the vital articles list but was somewhat dubiously removed during VA5's WP:BRD phase.

Support

1. As Nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 14:04, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Swap with The True Story of Ah Q  5. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 16:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

   Heh, after the resistance this proposal got I went through the most-viewed 20th-century Chinese literature articles and chose that as a potential new swap-in candidate in case this fails.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 17:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Phantom of the Opera (book) is only notable because of Phantom of the Opera (musical) which is already listed at VA4. Plenty of famous books, movies, musicals, operas etc. are adapted from less famous pieces of media. I don't think just being the basis for a much more famous adaptation is worthy of inclusion here (unless the book is somehow notable in its own right in a way that I missed). Aurangzebra (talk) 19:37, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

   There are many more adaptations than just the musical, many predating it. The 1925 silent film is also rather famous in its own right, being one of the most notable appearances of Lon Chaney  5.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:53, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

2. Agree with Aurangzebra. Also, per sysbias, I'd consider a swap for a non-Western work (preferably Chinese), but removing a Chinese work to add a Western one, one that already has a musical version in Vital, does not seem like a good idea. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

Apparently the novel's fame was downplayed by the musical's creators, which might be where Aurangzebra's attitude comes from. There is already some precedent in listing multiple iterations of a work with e.g. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz  5 & The Wizard of Oz (1939 film), and my DVD edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica has two separate Phantom-related entries (oddly enough for the 1925 and 1962 films, not the novel or musical). Besides, even the 1937 Phantom-inspired Chinese film gets more views than Taipei People.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:49, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.