Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Dishonored/archive1

Resolved comments from Hellknowz

Gameplay, "first-person perspective", "loot", "save/save system", "NPC", "mana", and others -- should be linked as these terms are mostly video gaming jargon.

Linked, "loot" isn't a video game term it's a common term for treasure/captured wealth, I linked "Save" but again I think in the context provided it is easy to understand, NPC is spelled out as non-player character in its first usage following by the abbreviation (NPC) which I think is sufficiently self explanatory. I added "magic" in brackets after the first usage of mana, reading the article on mana it doesn't seem useful to send someone there to read what can be explained in one word.DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonoreds FA nom! 19:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

non-player character is not a self-explanatory term to a non-gamer. Frankly, hardly any video gaming terms are, even the commonest terms we are so used to after decade(s) of gaming. It's easy to imagine everyone plays video games, but most of the gameplay section is gobbley gook to a non-gamer, often worse than maths articles. :) I don't mind not linking everything as it's pretty straight-forward for Dishonored, but something to keep in mind. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 21:16, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I have to disagree on that, I mean I can link it if its a deal breaker, but I think in pure english terms, non-player character is any character that is not the player, I would find that easy to understand, but I am willing to look at the input of non-gamers on the issue. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

As I said, I don't mind. For gamers, by gamers :P —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Gameplay, "affecting story decisions" -- decisions by whom? story doesn't make decision. Probably just "affecting storyline" or similar would do.

I think that's also self explanatory but I've modified it. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 19:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Gameplay and further use of "him or her" -- just use "they"/"them". Any particular reason to point out gender differences?

No idea, this is how the copy editor changed it, it was previously "them" so I assumed there was a reason for it, perhaps because player sounds singular and "them" is not.DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 19:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, "they" is singular they and it's used frequently throughout VG gameplay sections, it seems to be common practice. "him or her" just doesn't read as fluently. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 21:16, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Changed. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Gameplay, "The game reacts to the chaos caused in scripted ways—such as changing dialogue, and dynamic ways—such as increasing the presence of rats and plagued citizens and adding new scenes." -- gameplay-wise it's much more significant that high chaos adds way more guards and weepers.

It's not an all-inclusive statement of all chaos-related changes, but mentioning rats I think is more interesting in context, guards are mentioned multiple times in gameplay, stating that there are more or less is kind of indifferent, while rats are not mentioned at all in gameplay outside of the specific power that summons them if we remove this other reference. Rats also change gameplay, making areas more difficult to navigate, guards are a more generic obstacle. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "The player has six active powers, four passive powers or enhancements, and forty bone charms which grant him or her supernatural perks such as the ability to increase the duration of rat possession." -- not at the start, they don't. This needs to introduce better that powers can be acquired and bone charms found (also random). Probably also mention these are "unique" powers at the very start.

I removed the mention of the player having these things and changed the object to the game instead. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "Initially, only three bone charms can be active at any time." -- this introduces "initially", but doesn't explain later. How many can they use later -- 8, 40? A little trivial, but if one is mentioned, both should (or none at all).

I don't think it is necessary to mention ranges since exceeding the initial 3 is optional, but I have added info on the total available. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 19:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

That's fine, I would have even just said "several" and leave it at that. I just meant if you mention first number, then both should probably be mentioned to give scale/context. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "mana partially regenerates after use to allow "Blink" and "Dark Vision" powers to be used" -- is it important which powers have low enough mana cost to use after mana regen?

If the sentence simply stated that it allows "some powers" to be used, it'd be a very broad and unspecific claim, I don't see harm in stating that it allows the use of basic necessity skills while clarifying that other seemingly powerful abilities are too costly.DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

That's my point, explanation like "allows [repeated] use of basic necessity skills while clarifying that other seemingly powerful abilities are too costly" actually explains it, but the article currently only implies (it doesn't explicitly mention differing mana costs either). —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Differing mana costs are mentioned, it states that mana is required to use the abilities, that it regenerates enough mana to use certain abilities, but other "higher cost" abilities require the use of mana potions to regain enough mana. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "purchased using runes" -- doesn't say anything more about runes, in fact the real-world meaning of runes doesn't even make sense here.

I'm struggling to find a source for what they are, but any description would be in-universe, is this what you are asking for? Because in practical gameplay terms they are just currency. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I added a comment that they are artefacts carved from whale bone. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 22:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Would it be simpler to say "The main supernatural powers are unlocked and upgraded using runes—artefacts carved from whale bone". I would also add "found in the game world or awarded to Corwo", as hunting for runes is a major feature (besides completionism), especially on harder difficulties. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:54, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "preventing their discovery" -- should probably add "by other guards", otherwise, what is the gameplay benefic?

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "Coins must be collected to upgrade weapons and gadgets." -- can be collected, it's not required to do so, besides you get coins for completing (side)missions

Acquiring coins via theft or completing side tasks comes under "collecting", and coins must be collected to upgrade weapons and gadgets, there is not an alternative for this. The sentence doesn't imply that weapons and gadgets must be upgraded. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I suppose "collect" can mean all manner of actions, so okay. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, "Stealth is based on" -- stealth by itself isn't based on that, in-game stealth mechanic (or appropriate wording) is.

I'm not sure what you mean, stealth in the game is based exclusively on that. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I just don't like the sounding of that whole sentence, very technical and a bit contrived... may be "Stealth mechanic is based on avoiding enemy detection; Corwo can stay hidden by hiding behind objects and buildings, avoiding enemy cones of vision, and avoiding lighted areas."? —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I disagree on this one, I think the sentence is straightforward and makes sense, and I say that as a person who did not write it in that way. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Abilities and powers, stealth should mention non-lethal take-downs and hiding bodies, which are two major elements.

I've added mention of these. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Setting, "After the philosopher Esmond Roseburrow discovered" -- who is he and why is his name important to mention without further context?

It's just sourced world building for the setting, I don't believe there is harm in it within the appropriate context. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

It just doesn't seem to add anything besides having to remember an extra name that never comes up again and is in no way relevant to the plot otherwise. There is a lot of lore in the game and I would guess that there are other just as notable names, if not more relevant ones that aren't mentioned. Anyway, minor nitpick. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Removed it. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Setting, "disintegrate people who try to cross them" -- guards are people, so "unauthorized people"

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Setting, "a legendary former bodyguard" -- "legendary" seems a bit subjective

This is the description given, but changed. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

If this was given in the sources, then that's fine. I searched for the word in immediate source and it didn't have "legendary" in it. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Plot, "He tells Corvo that he masterminded" -- second "he" is ambiguous

I found this really difficult to reword for some reason but I have given it a shot. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Plot, "an idea supported by Emily's drawing of Corvo, labeled "Daddy"." -- sound like OR without a source. He is a father figure, it makes sense she'd think that way.

Fixed. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Plot, " If a small amount of chaos has been caused" -- probably "if only a small amount" to distinguish this is lower than first case.

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 19:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Development, "Half Life 2" is spelled with hyphen

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 19:14, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Read up to Design. Note that I've played the game a bunch, so this isn't an "outside" view. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 11:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Gameplay and bunch other places: "player-character" -- Player character does not have a hyphen.

Done DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 22:59, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Replied, hopefully will read the rest tomorrow. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Design, "game's world" -- it's just "game world"

I think you're misreading this, the statement is referring to the game's world, the world of dunwall or however you want to describe it, not the game world/game area. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Design, "The city guards for example have small heads" -- commas go around "for example"

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

No issues with release.

Reception, I'm not sure "number-one" has a hyphen, also it says "number 1" and "number 2" later

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Critical reception, Any reason to include acronym in "British Academy of Film and Television (BAFTA)" if it is never used?

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Reception, the development section mentions game's sound design a lot, but no reception for it.

There's no reception for the sound that I saw. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Reception, it feels like reviewers would have given more attention and reception to stealth. The gameplay paragraph includes this, but not a lot.

They actually didn't seem to, some reviews (GameSpot) don't even mention the word stealth in their review. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Throughout -- serial comma use -- some sentences use it, some don't.

Fixed what I could find. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 23:32, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Checked majority of references for obvious issues (paraphrasing doesn't seem to be an issue), don't see any. May be, The Verge is not longer disambiguated.

Done. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 00:03, 28 January 2014 (UTC)