Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Waterloo Bay massacre

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by AustralianRupert (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 00:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Waterloo Bay massacre[edit]

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk)

Waterloo Bay massacre (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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This is quite a different article from me, the story of the Waterloo Bay massacre or Elliston massacre, a fatal clash between settlers and Aboriginal Australians in late May 1849 on the cliffs of Waterloo Bay near Elliston, South Australia. I have worked pretty hard to ensure that the article takes a NPOV view of both the findings of historians and of the oral history of the Aboriginal people of the region, which I hope is borne out by the article. Over the years, a number of conflicting legends grew up around the massacre and the events that preceded it. A memorial to the massacre was dedicated at Waterloo Bay earlier this year. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:13, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I think that this might be the first A-class nomination for an article relating to the Australian frontier wars, so this is great to see. I have the following comments and suggestions:

  • The background section could be beefed up a bit to place this incident in the broader context of the frontier wars - eg, that this pattern was fairly common. I'd suggest making it clearer that the colonists simply took the land without the Indigenous owners agreeing to this or receiving any kind of compensation (something which was virtually unique in Australia).
  • "In May 2017 a memorial to the Waterloo Bay massacre was unveiled at Elliston" - do we know who commissioned the memorial (the ABC News story implies it was the local council) or how the issues raised regarding earlier memorial proposals were resolved? Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • G'day Nick-D, thanks. I am planning on writing a few more articles on the frontier wars in SA, which I may eventually expand into a good topic. I have expanded the Background section to provide wider context, confirmed the council built the memorial, and found a more recent ABC News article indicating that there is still local discussion ongoing about whether it was a massacre or an "incident". Let me know what you think? Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:41, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Those changes look great, and I'm pleased to support this nomination Nick-D (talk) 10:08, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Bluntly speaking, don't think that lead image gives non-Australians a good sense of where the place actually is - suggest pulling back the perspective a bit
  • Thanks for that, Nikkimaria, I hadn't thought about that. Have put a map of Australia at the top and moved the location map down.
  • Are there any contemporary illustrations available? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:05, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unfortunately not. Records are sparse at best, and I haven't been able to locate photographs of any of the protagonists. I will be travelling to that part of the state later this year, and will hopefully be able to get a photograph of the memorial then. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:54, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Hawkeye7
  • Have you thought of adding an infobox? (Say {{infobox civilian attack}}?
  • Why not just use {{Location map Australia}}? The map of SA is too large to see much detail anyway.
  • We should say "the Duke of Wellington" rather than "Lord Wellington".
  • You've overlinked Adelaide. (And do we really need to say that it was the colonial capital a second time?)
Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:05, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
G'day Hawkeye7, I did consider an infobox, but wasn't sure it would add much, especially given the number of casualties is unknown. Re: the maps, I've added Adelaide to the location map rather than follow your suggestion. The other two points are addressed. Thanks for taking a look. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:00, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:16, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • "Massacre" is a term generally avoided on WP. If it's the term the sources use you should be fine, but be aware that it might come up if you take this to FAC.
  • It is used commonly, particularly more so recently with research.
  • five were captured, however Two problems here: first, "however" is generally frowned upon at FAC, and second it doesn't quite read right being used in the middle of the sentence like that, especially as the commas either side make it a subordinate clause. "Although" would probably work better here.
  • Changed to although and dropped the second comma
  • Is there something particularly attractive about this part of Australia? Given the vastness of Oz, it makes you wonder why there wasn't enough room for both the settlers and the natives.
  • Basically Aboriginal people are strongly spiritually connected to the country where they come from, and as settlement grew out from the towns, settlers systematically displaced the local Aboriginal people from their lands. So there was resistance.
  • I'd put the photo of the cliffs first rather than the map. It's more visually appealing and it helps the reader picture the location.
  • Done.
  • Whose quote is ""fanciful and sometimes wildly inaccurate fictionalising""?
  • Moved citation to clarify.
  • Photos of the memorial would be nice.
  • Definitely will be one before I put this up for FA.

Not a lot to criticise really. A nice article on an unusual topic. It can't have been easy to write with all the contradictory accounts! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:11, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Harry. It took a while to thread it all together in a coherent way. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:59, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome. Happy to support. For what it's worth, I think it looks much better with the cliffs as the lead image. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:48, 8 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Iazyges[edit]

Will start soon. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 00:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Iazyges: G'day, this ACR has been listed for closing over at WP:MHCOORD. Before I close it, though, I just want to check if you still intend to provide some review comments, or if you are happy for it to be closed now. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 02:40, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@AustralianRupert: I'm happy for it to be closed now. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 06:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Too easy, I will close it now. Thanks. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 06:21, 9 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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