Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 August 28

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

August 28

Mining

How I mine for fish? NeonMerlin 04:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

See Naval mine and Blast fishing. SteveBaker (talk) 04:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

better to trawl for them surely?--79.76.196.178 (talk) 04:44, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

First, you find yourself a big ol' mountain. If you find fish scales around the mountain, you know you got yourself a fish mountain! Start climbing the fish mountain (you will notice fish parts strewn about the ground as you ascend), and once you have reached about two thirds the height of the mountain, start diggin'! You'll be knee deep in fish in no time. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Spare monies for a noob. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Nice catch Gandalf. We're so damn innocent here. "Just shut up". Franamax (talk) 02:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

You could just telephone them with an old hand cranked telephone magneto and ask them to come to the surface. That has worked well (but illegally in many jurisdictions). Edison2 (talk) 05:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Help

I have recently found out about an Australian store that sells old games called GameTraders. But I want to know their e-mail address. What is it? February 15, 2009 (talk) 08:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

fixed link - Tagishsimon (talk) 08:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Various of the stores have email addresses cites here. I think that's the best you'll do. --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I meant the "generic" e-mail address, because I want them to construct a store in my home town. February 15, 2009 (talk) 08:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Email the first shop and ask them that question (i.e. what is the email of your corporate people). --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by the "first" shop? February 15, 2009 (talk) 08:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I think he just means the first one on the list he linked to. The point is, it doesn't matter which shop you email. Any one of them should be able to give you the "generic" email address. Alternatively, you could write them a letter (remember those?) at the "Operations Centre" address given. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

←I think the way to actually do this would be to call the main number of the "operations centre", and tell them that you would like to propose a franchise, and ask for the best person to contact, and get his/her email. If you end up talking to this person on the phone, just say that you know that their time is valuable and that you'd like to send them some information by email about why your town would be a great place for one of their stores. I think it's not very likely that they will want to open a store in your town unless they can get a franchisee to pay for the store—that's the way this kind of operation tends to work. If you sell it well, though, they might propose it to a store owner in a nearby location (I understand Australia's a rather large place and "nearby" means something different there than it does in, say, Singapore), who might have a look at it and decide to expand in your direction. Good luck. Darkspots (talk) 10:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, good luck. They should be glad that you're taking such an interest in their endeavor. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Is this really a reference desk question? DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't obviously fail Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines#What the reference desk is not. How is it not a reference desk question from your point of view? Darkspots (talk) 15:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The site happens to have a page on franchising. It doesn't give a e-mail, but it has an address and a phone number. By the way, did you happen to get this inspiration from a certain Ben Croshaw? Paragon¹²³²¹ 04:19, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

"Choice listings" on eBay

I know I should contact eBay customer support about this, but talking to them is like wading through treacle, so I thought I'd give it a shot here. I had a listing cancelled because it allowed the buyer to choose from a selection of items (i.e. the winning bidder gets to choose any 10 items from a total of 100, for example). Their policy is apparently that such listings are not allowed "because of the potential for fee circumvention due to the item agreed upon being negotiated offline, transactions taking place outside of eBay and other issues" (quote from their "help" pages). I have no idea what this means and wonder if anyone else can make sense of it. How am I attempting to circumvent their fees? Many thanks. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, you're not, but you could be. You could be adding extra charges to some items, for example. Of course, it's really no different from doing so with any other item ("Actually, I'm gonna want an extra ten bucks before I send this to you."), but anyway. I think eBay has a vested interest in keeping all transactions like this within their domain, so to speak. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 09:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Ideas for daughter's birthday

It's our daughter's 12th birthday coming in a few weeks or so. She's a good kid-like her brothers and sisters she works hard at school and goes out of her way to help at home,and so at Christmas and birthdays they're pretty much allowed to choose what they want to do and anything goes. She's decided she wants her party to be fancy dress-it's just what to wear. She wants the costumes to be something nice for the boys to look at-short skirts, tight tops and showing off her chest. So we need a theme that lets her do that whilst actually getting anyone into any trouble. Whilst we're very broadminded as to what they wear(and they will be supervised) ,it might not go down too well with other parents if they're running round completely naked. We've got a few ideas on the table-60s with the girls in miniskirts or pool party so she can wear her swimsuit (or she did suggest borrowing little sister's as it's smaller!) Any more ideas to help our party go well and keep everyone happy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.252.37 (talk) 10:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

"Short skirts, tight tops, showing off her chest" is not what everyone would regard as "fancy dress." You knew that when you posted. Twelve-year-old boys generally aren't very interested in girls, and any attention they do pay would result from the oddity of the costume or their curiosity/unease regarding the twelve-year-old chest, not from any regard for your daughter. It's possible that by abdicating your responsibility as a parent to help your child develop a sense of self-worth independent from the pressures of trashy "fashion," you're signing up for an adolescence filled with confrontation. On the other hand, you won't take my opinion any more seriously than I take your question. — OtherDave (talk) 10:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Although I did rather like the suggestion in your comment that perhaps they'd like to dress up as trolls. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I was certainly interested in girls when I was 12...they didn't have much to show off yet but that didn't seem to matter. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

How about the 80's? That's a broad enough theme that its up to them as to how revealing they want to look. --Candy-Panda (talk) 11:35, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Gotta agree with OtherDave, you do have to lay some ground rules. I would ask, why does she want to show her belly like that? If it's becuase "everyone does it," you should be showing her that she needs to take pride in herself, and the real her is what's inside, not what's on the outside. After all, I know it's corny, but I always tell the adolescents I work with, "What really matters is that a couple like each other with they're old, bald, and all wrinkled up like a prune."

That said, a pool party does give the right idea, and if you can find a good indoor pool it should work. (Unless it's warme nough where you live to still do it outdoors.) Perhaps it could be a broader Olympic theme - with Michael Phelps having made swimming so big, perhaps you could have some fun competitions. that would let the boys get a little silly (when I was 12, my firends and I liked to do funny dives - perhaps a contest for most recative among boys and girls?) and let everyone have fun without having the full attention paid to the skin. Indeed, you and your daugvhter could, if money isn't much of an object, buy some plain bathing suits for everyone and design them to represent real or fictional countries' Olympic teams. Somebody or his brother (talk) 14:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't want to be a spoilsport but wouldn't this question be better at some chat room somewhere? DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Probably, but we frequently answer questions that aren’t precisely source oriented, I guess one more won’t hurt. At least it’s not something like “wHy eXActily is OBAMa suchg an idut?” :) --S.dedalus (talk) 22:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I hate to be a suspicious old fart, but this message sounds more like someone hoping we'll discuss fun things to do with children dressed provocatively than like a message from a parent to me. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

As I cannot imagine any responsible parent encouraging a 12-year-old girl in "showing off her chest", or, indeed, in creating a social occasion just for that purpose, I have to agree with FisherQueen. If this isn't trolling, then the parent should be reported for child abuse. This is really quite disturbing. ៛ Bielle (talk) 00:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, I can imagine a 12-year-old girl wanted to have a "grown up" birthday party, and some parents have difficulty saying "no". --Tango (talk) 03:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

All valid points, however the only immediate question is shall we revert this and continue this discussion on the talk page, or leave it and get back on tapic? --S.dedalus (talk) 05:43, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to AGF here and assume this is a genuine question-I know for sure that just walking through town on a Saturday night I can walk past half-a-dozen 12 and 13 year olds each night who are wearing practically nothing(and usually smoking and drinking)-perhaps this is a parent saying 'you're not going out dressed like that every night,but maybe for a special occasion as a one off it will be OK' which at least seems to be an improvement. And certainly when I was 11,the girls spent quite a bit of time in the playground making themselves look nice for the boys,and as for the boys-well every game of truth or dare seemed had 'lift up your skirt' or 'take off your top' as a dare. How about tennis party?Girlies can wear tennis skirts which some girls will no doubt hoick up to around their waist,and probably undo a few buttons too.Water fight(especially in summer)is a good way to cool down and also get everyone very wet in the process.I might advise swimsuits otherwise it could turn out like a wet t-shirt competition. Lemon martini (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The flu

How do you know when you are over the flu? Like you stop feeling sick but how long are you contagious for? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 11:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Our article on influenza states that:

People who contract influenza are most infective between the second and third days after infection and infectivity lasts for around ten days.[reference 82 of influenza article] Children are notably more infectious than adults and shed virus from just before they develop symptoms until two weeks after infection.[references 82 & 83 of influenza article]

AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Room prices-more for less?

Off on holiday, perusing through the hotel brochures deciding where to stay, I noticed that one hotel offered a room by itself for £89 a night . Fair enough. But if I have the room and breakfast it was only £78. If I have the room, breakfast and three-course dinner in the evening, it drops to £52 a night. I can't work out why this should be-how come I am paying less for more facilities? Lemon martini (talk) 12:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I would assume they've simply made a mistake, and suggest you email them to ask. Some hotels do offer cheap room rates if you agree to pay (extra) for dinner at their expensive restaurant.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I can see how trying to keep you in the hotel for your evening meal (by throwing in the meal free) would make sense as it could result in increased wine/drinks sales and my understanding is that's the biggest area of profit in many restaurants. The cheaper 'with' breakfast is a bit odd though, as I don't see a huge lead-on of extra sales from breakfast (though maybe that's why i'm not in sales and marketing!) ny156uk (talk) 22:39, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Would you identlfy the hotel and location? I might be interested. ៛ Bielle (talk) 23:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I also would like to see further details. There must be a further fixed charge for meals, otherwise you could go to the dining room and ask for their finest bread-sticks and tap-water.

Another tip to keep in mind - depending on the timing of charges for guaranteed reservations, it's sometimes worthwhile to get to the hotel early, walk up to the desk and ask for their room rate. Depending on their bookings, they may offer a very good rate for walk-in business; and even then don't be afraid to ask "can you do better than that?" Then you go up to your room and use your cellphone (mobile for you Brits) to call down and cancel your reservation. Franamax (talk) 00:21, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Certainly-it's the Imperial in Barnstaple,England. I have the leaflet with the prices at home.I'll study it more closely to make sure there's no small print, but there were definitely three prices given for room, room with breakfast and room with dinner and they went down... Lemon martini (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Starting Rates page for the Imperial. If we head over to the Maths desk, somebody might be able to quickly calculate the large number of possible rates for any given date -- there are several room categories, and the rate per person per night drops for longer stays, and there are options for room only, bed and breakfast, and half board. Then we can throw in the seasonal variations and the special breaks which may be on offer for even more possibilities, meaning the answer to the original question can only be "forty two." --LarryMac | Talk 12:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

This is not your problem. Write and book stating the price and if they accept you have a contract. If they do not accept the price, then they have made an error in their advertising and under English law you cannot enforce the price shown.90.0.128.22 (talk) 08:46, 30 August 2008 (UTC)DT

How common was it for the United States Census to miss people in 1900?

In doing some research on my famiy, I've discovered that they were apparently missed in the 1900 Census. I know from faily history things were quite busy then and they could have just never been home, but how often did this happen back then, when the census takers often just went door to door?

Some background - they parents and perhaps a couple of the children were immigrants, but we have the Ellis Island certificate from 1892, family history stating one son was born in 1894 and was injured in an X-ray accident in 1899. (Yes, they happened, if not calibrated right they could burn you badly.) So they were in the home town I searched for, and they're there in 1910. They don't seem to have been anywhere in the state in 1900, though. And yes, I checked the numerous alternate spellings. Thanks in advance.Somebody or his brother (talk) 14:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Our article on the US Census says that there was a fire in 1921 that destroyed some number of records...maybe thats where the data was lost? SteveBaker (talk) 15:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

In the excerpt under the Google listing for this site, I saw an estimate of a 6.7% undercount in the 1900 census. 1900 United States Census says the population was 76,212,168. — OtherDave (talk) 23:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

My grandfather is listed as a girl in the 1930 census, so they certainly made mistakes. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:09, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The part about injury from xray in 1899 is interesting. See Clarence Madison Dally, an article about one of Thomas Edison's assistants in xray experiments who tested each xray machine in the late 1890's on himself. They had no idea that xrays were harmful in the early days, until tragedies such as the death of Dalley occurred. Dalley was not alone as an early victim of radiation. As for errors in earlky census, the census taker was not paid much and I see many cases where they apparently took data from neighbors or help about a family they could not reach, because of gross errors of name, age and origin. Some people clearly did not wish to be enumerated. Some people probably had let it be known they would kill any government agents who came on their property. Edison2 (talk) 05:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure I would call the 1900 census an "early" census. They were already using punch cards and tabulating machines. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 21:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Nor I, since the first U.S. Census was in 1790 and they're required under the constitution every 10 years. — OtherDave (talk) 09:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

On the Road

I'm trying to get to New York inexspensively by the morning of the 6th of September. Anyone know the best(cheapest) way to do that other than hitchhiking? Elatanatari (talk) 23:58, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Where are you now? Algebraist 23:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Detroit, sorry Elatanatari (talk) 00:03, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

If you really want the cheapest, you can cycle it for free. Algebraist 00:08, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I have tooo much luggage for biking, and I dont think I have the stamina to travel fast enough to arrive by the 6th.Elatanatari (talk) 00:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Check the Amtrack, they have stations on jersey and new york city. Nick910 (talk) 00:10, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

623 miles according to Google Maps. Go through London, St Catharines, Buffalo, the outskirts of Scranton. Google Maps claims you can walk it in that time. This is obviously some new meaning of "walk" with which I am as yet unacquainted. --Trovatore (talk) 00:21, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It's about $100 on Greyhound; Amtrak starts about there and goes to about $150. But if I was really wanting cheap, I'd find a ride board somewhere -- any college has 'em -- and see what I could do for gas share. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 00:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Take a good book to read on the way. Something by Jack Kerouac (no relation) might fit the bill. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it is $79.50 on Greyhound with an advanced purchase ticket. The bus trip involves traveling overnight, no matter what time of day you leave, though you could probably break the journey in Pittsburgh and book a room for the night if you don't like trying to sleep on buses, but that would increase the cost considerably. Marco polo (talk) 00:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't need sleep, food, or water, just transportation in time. and I think I'm starting to reconsider hitchhiking. I'm having a terrible time with the amtrak website. I'm also consulting my friends on books, I have a 20 hr flight going out of JFK. Where could I find a ride board? On any college bulletin board? Elatanatari (talk) 03:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Can I point out that on Orbitz there are one-way flights from Detroit to New York for only $97? I've never found Greyhound or Amtrak to be a deal of any sort; you save maybe $20 over a flight but you end up losing hours and hours and hours of time... --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

You don't need sleep, food or water? Impressive... --Tango (talk) 03:39, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

You can probably find a ride board on Craig's List. --LarryMac | Talk 12:26, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It would seem Google isn't aware of the need for sleep on journeys longer than a day! --Tango (talk) 03:39, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Also check with driveaway services. Hey, there's something that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on! The idea is that they match people wanting to make a one-way trip with people who need their cars moved to the same city. So if they have a car that has to go from Detroit to New York, and you meet their requirements, you're set.

I just looked at the web site of a company called Auto Driveaway. They say you have to be at least 23 and have a clean driving record, and at one place on the site (but not on the drivers' FAQ page) it says you need a reference in your destination city. You pay a $350 deposit refundable when you return the car, and agree to a driving schedule of about 8 hours a day and no side trips. The site says the first tank of fuel is free, but they don't say if you have to return the car with a full tank -- with the price of fuel these days, that could make a big difference to the price comparison with buses. Of course you will also need to stop overnight at your expense. I have seen it stated elsewhere that the owner can leave stuff in the trunk, so you don't get to use it for your stuff, but I don't know if that's correct. I've never done this myself. --Anonymous, 20:09 UTC, August 29, 2008.

My parents already don't want me to go, I doubt they'd let me get a ride from craigslist or from a college bulletin board. The drive is less than 24 hrs, right? I can go 24hrs without drinking, sleeping, eating.Elatanatari (talk) 23:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Google just calculated "614 mi – about 9 hours 55 mins" for me using a purely-US-based route. Over that distance, if I had a reliable car, I'd definitely consider driving. For even a reasonably-economical car (say, 25 MPG) gas would cost you just under $100 (each way) so driving is competitive with essentially every other mode of transportation. And you get to set your own schedule, bring lots of stuff, and NOT have to take off your shoes or submit to being felt-up by TSA twits.

Atlant (talk) 13:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)