Wikipedia:Peer review/Walt Whitman and Abraham Lincoln/archive1

Walt Whitman and Abraham Lincoln

Looking for suggestions on how to improve the article. Considering working up to FAC, though I still need to get my hands on one book. Thanks, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:21, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

STANDARD NOTE: for quicker and more responses to pre-FAC peer review requests, please remember to add your PR page to Template:FAC peer review sidebar (this has been done for you). And when you close this peer review, please be sure to remove it from there. Also consider adding the sidebar to your userpage so you can help others by participating in other pre-FAC peer reviews. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:53, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments from SandyGeorgia

• MOS:LQ? (Unsure) ... In August 1863 Whitman wrote in The New York Times "I see the president almost every day".[23]

It's correct

• Is it singular poem ? the poem's "homoerotic overtones".

no, amended

• MOS:ALLCAPS, "CENSORED: Wielding the Red Pen". University of Virginia Library Online Exhibits. Retrieved October 28, 2020.

Fixed

• Should the first-published dates in the Table in "Memories of President Lincoln" be cited (so we don't have to go looking for them?)

added

• An inanimate thing can't begin the process of being published ... a person can begin the process of publishing a poem ... Although Drum-Taps had already begun the process of being published on April 1, Whitman felt it would be incomplete without a poem on Lincoln's death and hastily added "Hush'd Be the Camps To-Day".

right, tweaked

• MOS:LQ? (Unsure ... ) marked the closest he came to "social eminence on a large scale."[51]

It's correct

• Considered ... considered ... vary wording, and avoid passive voice ... The cluster is considered to have improved Whitman's reputation.[53] Whitman's Lincoln poems are considered to

Tweaked

• Unclear modifier ... and passive voice ... "My Captain" was called the most popular poem ever written on Lincoln by the scholar William Pannapacker.[57] --> Scholar William Pannapacker called "My Captain" the most popular ...

Sure

• As they became less highly thought of, "Lilacs" took their place. ... less highly thought of, because ... ?

done

• Missing word ... In 2004, Pannapacker his poetry as a "mixture of innovation and opportunism".

added

• Noted ... noted ... vary wording ... see WP:RECEPTION for ideas. Critics have noted Whitman's departure from his earlier poetry in his Lincoln poems. Floyd Stovall noted in 1932
• MOS:LQ? that acceptance was "preferable to exclusion and rejection."

It's correct

• Generally, noted ten times could use better variation.

reworked

That's it from me, no need to get back to me on any of this, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:23, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Sandy, I've responded individually more for my purposes than anything else. I was very careful on MOS:LQ, thanks to your comments on it last time around, so there shouldn't be any mistakes in that respect! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 01:28, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Z1720

I do not know anything about this content, except for the basics of Lincoln's life, so consider me a non-expert review. As always, please feel free to disagree with my comments. I will give comments as if this was an FAC.

Lede

• "and was deeply affected upon his assassination" Replace "upon" with "by"?

 Done

• "that centered around his assassination and helped to improve Whitman's reputation" Replace with (changes underlined) "that centered around his assassination which helped to improve Whitman's reputation"

 Done

• "varied since their publication. "My Captain!"" I think this is supposed to be a colon instead of a full stop because you are introducing a list.

I don't think a colon is the best choice here because it's only two of the four poems in the cluster, but could be convinced otherwise

Background

• "Walt Whitman established his reputation as a poet in the late 1850s to early 1860s with the 1855 release of Leaves of Grass." It's weird how you give a 10+ year range of the establishment of his reputation, then stated a specific year when the reputation was established. Pick one.

tweaked. Better?

Yep! Z1720 (talk) 18:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• "In June 1865, James Harlan, the Secretary of the Interior, found a copy of Leaves of Grass and, considering the collection vulgar, fired Whitman from the Bureau of Indian Affairs." Too many commas. Reword.

Tweaked, though may not be better. Let me know?

I like it. Z1720 (talk) 18:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Whitman and Lincoln

• "In 1856[16] Whitman wrote that" This is a weird spot for a citation, and I don't know what it is verifying.

Moved to end of sentence-- it verifies the year, Aaron provides the whole quote, though I can see how this may not fit.

• "This is considered to be an early description of a "Lincolnesque" figure." Does ref 16 verify this? If not, it needs a citation.

Yes, it does verify it.

• "His death greatly moved Whitman." Can we expand upon this? What was Whitman's immediate reaction to his assassination? How did it move Whitman?

Well, four days after he wrote his first poem so I'd imagine that was his most immediate reaction. He expressed how he was "moved" by writing that poem and the two that followed. I think I remember something more he wrote in a diary about the immediate reactionso I'll see if I can dig that up.

Added a sentence with more details, better?

This is perfect. Thanks. Z1720 (talk) 21:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Memories of President Lincoln

• I don't know much about page formatting on Wikipedia, but does the table need to be in the middle of the page? Can we move the table to the side and have text wrap around it?

I'd imagine we could, but I worry it might look worse on mobile.

I do not know much about mobile, so I suggest leaving it unless someone with more knowledge comments on it. Z1720 (talk) 18:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

• "Although Whitman had already begun the process of publishing" Delete already

 Done

I'll finish the rest later. Z1720 (talk) 19:17, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Later has arrived.

Lectures

• "He was soon presented with the idea of giving a series of 'Lincoln Lectures' by Richard Watson Gilder" Who presented this idea to him?

Gilder, I've tweaked to avoid passive voice

Reception

• "The cluster is considered to have improved Whitman's reputation." The lede mentions two clusters. Which one are we talking about?

It's the same cluster of poems, just two different names. Is that unclear from the lede?

After reading these sentences in the lede, I thought there were two different clusters: "and all four poems were grouped together in the "President Lincoln's Burial Hymn" cluster of Passage to India. In 1881, the poems were grouped into the "Memories of President Lincoln" cluster of Leaves of Grass." Z1720 (talk) 18:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Hmm... Any suggestions on how I might avoid that confusion? Basically he took the same cluster in "President Lincoln's Burial Hymn" and retitled it "Memories of President Lincoln"

What about, in the lede, "and all four poems were grouped together as the "President Lincoln's Burial Hymn" cluster in Passage to India. In 1881, the poems were republished in the retitled "Memories of President Lincoln" cluster of Leaves of Grass." Not sure if that works grammatically since I am not knowledgeable in literature academia. Z1720 (talk) 21:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I think that works Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Analysis

• No concerns

Further reading

• Further reading sections are usually not included in FAs, as authors are expected to include as much of the relevant research as they can. Why aren't these works included as sources in the article?

OK, cut. They provided interesting context, nothing much that could be included imo.

General comments

• Images at the top need alt captions.

Added (not by me)

• I made the following additions/changes to the article, please revert if they are not useful.

1. Added templates to the top of the page
2. Removed "language=en" from citations as it is not needed and inconsistently applied.
3. Added non-breaking spaces to dates. See MOS:NBSP for more details.

Look good, thanks!

I hope these comments are helpful. Z1720 (talk) 21:01, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking a look, will respond in more depth- later. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Made some comments, please ping when you are done with the other sections. Z1720 (talk) 18:00, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Z1720 What do you think? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 20:44, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Eddie891 Responses above. Z1720 (talk) 21:39, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Z1720, many thanks-- Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)