Wikipedia:Peer review/Stockton and Darlington Railway/archive1

Stockton and Darlington Railway

This peer review discussion has been closed.

I've listed this article for peer review because it's about the Stockton and Darlington Railway, the world's first public railway that used steam locomotives. It opened in 1825, and this has been celebrated every fifty years. I would like to get this to FA.

Thanks, Edgepedia (talk) 07:19, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley

First lot of comments, to the end of Genesis section:

• Origins
  • "Quaker Edward Pease supported it" – not clear why it is relevant that Pease was a Quaker.
    • The Quakers are quite proud of their involvement. In the Quaker Tapestry, Panel D7 "Railways" begins with the text "Quaker Enterprise and the Early Railways" and mentions Edward Pease. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:04, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
      • That they were Quakers is mentioned in all the sources. I remember something in Kirby about this, and I'm picking a copy up from the library tomorrow, so perhaps I can answer your question by adding something to the article. Edgepedia (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
        • I've started the book — that they were Quakers was important as 1/3 of the finance came from non-local Quakers; eg the Gurneys of Norwich invested £20,000. I will hopefully have something coherent by tomorrow morning. Edgepedia (talk) 14:41, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
  • "Lord Eldon's estate and one of the Earl of Darlington's" – seems odd to call the Earl of Eldon "Lord Eldon" when the other earl has his title given in full.
    • Changed as suggested Edgepedia (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
• George Stephenson
  • "a practicable line could be built" – not sure about "practicable" here. Plans and schemes can be practicable, but I don't think a line can. Perhaps "viable"?
  • "after Stephenson had failed to do so" – to do what? Design the bridge, or appoint Bonomi?
    • Will rephrase Edgepedia (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2014 (UTC) Done so [1] and [2]. Edgepedia (talk) 18:43, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
• Early operations
  • "Nevertheless, by August 1827" – not sure why "Nevertheless".
  • "due to the safety values being left fixed down" – "valves" I imagine, but I didn't like to assume
  • "They were made compulsory" – by whom? Parliament?
    • Changes here. Edgepedia (talk) 17:19, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

More to come. Tim riley (talk) 16:48, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Second batch

• Railway improvements
  • "This had led to horses startled by a passing locomotive and coming off their dandy cart being run down by the following train" – I took three goes to get the meaning of this. May I suggest a comma after "horses" and another after "cart"?
  • "After buying out the coach companies" – this is a dangling participle, and would be better as "After the S&DR bought out the coach companies"
• Great North of England Railway
  • Last line – the River Tyne needs its definite article, I think
• Cleveland iron ore
  • "to exclude the railway from the foreshore" – this puzzles me. The foreshore is the land below mean high and mean low water, so what would a railway be doing there, when the land was covered in water every high tide?
  • ["Cockermouth, Keswick & Penrith Railway" – I pause to shed a tear here: my family's home is near Keswick, and I still pine for the railway connection to Penrith decades after it closed.]
• Progress and amalgamation
  • Hartlepool – has a blue link here, but it's already had one earlier
  • "deciding they preferred a merger" – this is tricky, but elsewhere you refer to the company in the singular. "Deciding it preferred" would look strange, so perhaps "the directors deciding that they preferred"?

More soonest. Tim riley (talk) 15:53, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Changes here, except the 'foreshore' one, which word I think I got from the source. Will read up and see how I can expand it (once at the foreshore they could build a jetty etc...) Edgepedia (talk) 16:33, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

So they could. Sorry, my brain was off the hook. Tim riley (talk) 17:34, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Expanded with "the Upsall, Normanby & Ormesby Railway received permission for a line with access to the river, the S&DR claim of exclusive rights to the foreshore rejected". Edgepedia (talk) 17:54, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Last lot

• Anniversary celebrations
  • "Locomotion No.1 propelled by its tender and more modern locomotives" – ambiguous. I imagine it was only the tender doiing the propelling. A comma after No 1 and another after tender will make this clear.
  • "procession of locomotives was completed" – either lose the "was" or make it "which was", I think.
    • Done these two
• Legacy
  • "The local councils wish to introduce" – this is going to get very out of date unless you or another editor will keep an eye on it. It needs a citation in any event, and if you can find one that quotes a council view you can get round the problem by saying "So and So Council stated in 2013 that…"
  • "The current phase involves…" Again, you'll need to keep this up to date, and to be honest I don't think you'll get it through FAC with so many statements that have a sell-by date. Again, "X announced in 2013 that the plan was…" will get you out of the corner. See WP:EPHEMERAL.
    • I'll come back to this
  • "An Hitachi" – "A Hitachi"?
    • I think this depends on how you pronounce it; I'm sure Hitachi have a preference, but I've have been able to find this. I've changed it.
  • "an annex of the National Railway Museum" – slightly odd word. Annex suggests something attached to an existing building, rather than an outpost.
    • I can't find in which source I saw annex; anyway changed it to "part of"
      • The National Railway Museum Shildon no longer uses the word "annex" on its website, although it has done in the past. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:15, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
        • My dictionary defines Annex (in this context) as "annexe or exp. US annex ... a building used as an addition to a main one nearby". As Shildon is 62 miles from York, it probably is the wrong word. Edgepedia (talk) 17:40, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • "coal drops that are listed buildings" – as this is a non-defining clause it would be better as "coal drops, which are…" There are a few earlier "thats" in non-defining clauses, where "which" would be more usual, but this is the only one that seems to me to disrupt the flow of your prose.
    • done
• Notes
  • Note 3 – careful with "refute" – it means to disprove something, not just to dispute it.
    • Thanks. Changed to challenge
  • Note 5 – The Illustrated London News should be italicised, I think. There seems to be a word missing in the last sentence, e.g. saying that the drawing…
    • Thanks, I'd lost the verb
  • Note 8 – "today": WP:EPHEMERAL again. Better to say "in 2014" or whenever your reference date is.
    • Thanks. Seeing I created the {{Inflation-year}} template, I guess I'd better use it.
  • Note 9 – Given that John Wesley is a famous name in a quite different context I think you need to give your John Wesley his surname; you could then call the earlier man just "Timothy".
    • Done
  • Note 10 – I'd lose the full stop in the book title
    • Done

That's all I have. A fine piece of research, most readably put together, with impressive images. If you take it to FAC please let me know. – Tim riley (talk) 10:17, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks Tim! I do enjoy finding the images for these article. Edgepedia (talk) 16:33, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• And hopefully this fixes the (several) issues around the current plans for the line. Thank you again. Edgepedia (talk) 17:40, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Please note I'm going to be away for the next week, until 24 February. Please make any comments or ask questions below or on the talk page and I look at this when I get back. Edgepedia (talk) 18:58, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks everyone. I'll list on FAC by the end of the week.