Wikipedia:Peer review/Sergo Ordzhonikidze/archive1

Sergo Ordzhonikidze

An article I greatly expanded recently, and am slowly working my way to getting to FA. It just recently had a copyedit, but additional reviews certainly can't hurt. Any and all comments are greatly appreciated, and will be addressed as soon as possible. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Kaiser matias, I decided to see what I could do to help at at peer review. I cannot offer any help regarding the content and sourcing of the article. I hope that a perspective from someone who knows little about Georgia will be somewhat helpful. Overall the article does a great job of describing and explaining the subject, but I have some suggestions, mostly regarding style.

• A point for clarification: the article says that Ordzhonikidze goes to live with relatives, David and Eka, and later in the paragraph that he lives with his aunt and uncle after the death of his father. Are Eka and David the aunt and uncle, or were the aunt and uncle different relatives?

• This sentence seems a bit awkward: "Ordzhonikidze then met with the local Chechen and Ingush population urging them to join, arguing that the soviet (council) system was not unlike that used by the Chechens." How about something like, "Ordzhonikidze organized meetings with the local Chechen and Ingush population, and urged them to join, arguing that the soviet (council) system was not unlike that used by the Chechens."

• Wordy and passive: "Bolshevik activity in the region was limited, with only the city of Baku being controlled by them at that point." Suggestion: "Bolshevik activity in the region was limited, with only the city of Baku under Bolshevik control at that point."

• Weak auxiliary verb: "Using the pretext of a local Bolshevik uprising in Azerbaijan, Ordzhonikidze had the Eleventh Army invade on 27 April 1920…" Suggestion: "...Ordzhonikidze dispatched the Eleventh Army to invade on 27 April 1920...”

• Needs active voice, "This was launched the next day." Suggestion: "They attacked the next day."

• In the Vesenkha section: In the discussion about the "wreckers," "Ordzhonikidze initially took a harsh stance on the matter, eagerly trying to clean up the organisation." The verb "clean up" supports Stalin's view of the situation when "wreckers" is just a term used to smear anyone who disagrees with the Vesenkha, if I am understanding this.

If you found these comments helpful, I will take a look at the last half of the article later. Overall, you have done a great job explaining a subject which is challenging to many English speakers, and I found the article interesting. Sincerely, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 20:06, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

@Oldsanfelipe2: Thanks for going through the article. I'm just currently occupied out of town, but hope to address things here in the next few days, and will be sure to let you know once that's done. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:47, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

More comments:

• This is a bit compressed: "He argued against Stalin in setting realistic targets, eventually settling on a yearly industrial growth of 13–14%.[78][79] In this he was heavily dependent on the technical skills and knowledge of his deputy, Georgy Pyatakov." Stalin and Sergo are arguing about realistic targets. Who is being realistic/Unrealistic? The second sentence as written ("In this...") suggests that Pyatakov is helping with the setting of realistic targets. I am guessing that Pyatakov is a production specialist. In any case, it should be explicit how Pyatakov is assisting Sergo.
• "Though the Stakhanovite movement led to increased production and enthusiasm both at the official and worker level, results were not what were expected." Suggestion, "results fell short of expectations."
• Purges and Downfall section, first paragraph: Was Sergo accused of protecting wreckers and saboteurs?

He was to an extent. Do you have any suggestions on how to clarify that?

• Cause of death: "Khlevniuk has suggested that Ordzhonikidze was reluctant to openly challenge Stalin regarding wrecking in the NKTP, and instead only wanted to change his mind on the subject." What changes in Stalin's thinking had Sergo hoped to make, according to Khlevniuk? Did Sergo want to challenge the whole concept of "the wreckers," or did he just think that Stalin made false accusations of wrecking?
• Question: Sergo's brothers Papulia and Konstantine are not mentioned in the Early life section. Did these brothers not a formative years important part of his years, or do the sources not discuss this?
• Leadership: "there were calls to not have Ordzhonikidze re-elected; delegates from the North Caucasus stated Ordzhonikidze, who was unable to attend due to the invasion of Georgia, "yells at everyone, orders everyone around him, ignores the opinions of loyal party members."[140] However, he was defended by Lenin and Stalin, with the former revealing Ordzhonikidze was deaf in one ear so had to shout, even at Lenin himself." I take it that Sergo was not able to perceive his own loudness because of hearing loss, "so had to shout." This could be more clear. Were the defenses of Sergo by Stalin and Lenin specific to Sergo's hearing loss, or were these broader defenses of his personality and leadership?

That's all I have. I have never been part of a FAC, but I am trying to critique the article according to what I imagine the FAC standard to be. In real life, I read mostly social history and not many biographies; on Wikipedia, I read mostly biographies and not much social history. This one of the best biographies I have read on Wikipedia. I have not been a part of any article written to the standard of this article. Hats off to you and all the other editors involved. Sincerely, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 13:51, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for going through it so thoroughly. I've made the necessary adjustments, with one comment above about the wreckers and saboteurs. Other than that if you have any other thoughts I'll be happy to listen to them. Kaiser matias (talk) 20:05, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

On my last reading, I am not seeing a problem with the lead paragraph from the Purges and Downfall section. Thanks for the opportunity to review the article. Best, Oldsanfelipe2 (talk) 20:38, 25 January 2020 (UTC)