Wikipedia:Peer review/Pied-Noir/archive1

Pied-noir

I've listed this article for peer review because it has been sourced and referenced and seems to give a sufficient amount of information about who the pied-noir were and what their role in Algerian/French history was. Hopefully it reads well and is informative. Ideally, I would like to see this article move to GA status at some point.

I'm a new editor and this is the first so-called "large" article on which I've done substantial work, thus all help is appreciated :). I'm specifically concerned about NPOV at this point because the article concerns a contentious subject with two sides.

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Lazulilasher (talk) 02:55, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style. If you would find such a review helpful, please click here. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
• I will try to make some comments in the next few days Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Overall has a lot of information, and is decently illustrated. Seems to be fairly well referenced, though there are a few paragraphs with no refs and at least one direct link to the web (not an inline cite) that needs to be fixed. Writing is good on a small scale, but work needs to be done on the big story and getting it to flow from section to section better. Remember this is telling a story, and try to make the story clearer. Specific points follow - not an exhaustive list.

Lead

• The very first sentence is quite long and involved - is there any way it could simplified? Perhaps swap parts of the first two sentences: Pied-noir (plural pieds-noirs) (French: black foot; pronounced /pje.nwaʁ/) is a term used to refer to colonists of Algeria until the end of the Algerian War in 1962. Specifically, pied-noirs were French nationals of European descent, Sephardic Jews, and settlers from other European countries such as Spain, Italy, and Malta who were born in Algeria. Now the first sentence gives the specifics and the second says "specifically" and gives the general definition. I think it makes more sense here to go from general to specific (as my attempt at a rewrite does).
  • Y Just used your sentence :) Lazulilasher (talk) 19:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• The lead should summarize the whole article, at least touching on every header and subheader (even if only a word or phrase). I would check that this lead does that and also do something about the one sentence Camus paragraph.

Origin of the term

• ...had been assigned to duty in the coal-room because of their experience with warm temperatures, thus causing their feet to become black. makes it sound as if the warm temperatures turned their feet black (not the coal)
  • Y Yep, you're right...reworded and broken into 2 sentences. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• The chronology and terms in the last paragraph are unclear - it seems to start in 1962 (independence) when they call themselves Algerian[s?] in relation to metropolitan French, and as Europeans vis-à-vis the indigenous Arab and Berber population. Then the next sentence goes back to the 1920s and 1930s (when Algerian begins to mean the Arabs only), then to 1955 (when Pied-noirs satrt to call themselves that - but then what about the first sentence seven years later they are call themselves Algerians or Europeans?

French invasion

• Why is the etymology of dey given?
  • Haha...ok. Will remove.
    • Y Done.

• Abd al-Kader declared jihad against the French and thus began a period of full-scale war which lasted seven years.[17] Please give the year this started.

• The French Army signed two treaties with Abd el-Kader... what kind of treaties? Peace treaties?
  • Y Yep, they were. Sentence is now clarified. Lazulilasher (talk) 18:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• Although various pockets of the country remained independent, the war effectively ended in 1847 with the surrender of Abd al-Kader, and Algeria became French territory.[18] I am not clear on how this differed from the situation after the French kicked out the Ottomans - weren't the French the ruling authority / government then? If it was "occupied territory administered by France before" or something similar please make that clearer.
  • Y I clarified the history. Kader's resistance was more of an insurgency meant it took longer for the French to establish control of modern day Algeria. Lazulilasher (talk) 18:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Settlement

• They became known as colons, Européens, and eventually pieds-noirs. does some of this belong in the Origin of the term section?

Pied-noir relationship to Metropolitan France and Muslim Algeria

• The WP:MOS says not to repeat the title in headers and subheaders, so this name should be changed - perhaps to "Relationship to Metropolitan France and Muslim Algeria"?
  • Y Done.

• Might want to explain what the Metropole is before the block quote - not everyone knows it is the French mainland.

• Here and in the following sections you repeat the 1 million Pied-noir, 9 million Arabs figure several times - should try to avoid needless repetition (although this might be good in the Lead for an idea of the scale of the pied-noirs)

The Algerian War and Exodus

• This is History too - you might want to change the "History" section to "History to 1950" or something similar. Also, how did the end of the Second World War feed into all this?
  • Y Moved sections, there are under history in the hierarchy, now. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

• ..which has been alleged to be the most massive relocation of people in Europe since the Second World War. Needs a ref - who alleged it? Until when? What about the former Yugoslavia breakup?
  • Y I removed this. Even if it were true it would be nearly impossible to verify correctly. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
    • If you have a reliable source you can attribute it to, you can leave it in as something like ..which has been called the most massive relocation of people in Europe since the Second World War by Jones (1978).[13] Give the author explicitly and the year for context. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Exodus

• The exodus to mainland (or metropolitan) France began once the pied-noirs became convinced that the country would become independent of France and accelerated after the 5th of July 1962 massacre, in which hundreds of militants entered European sections of the city, and began randomly attacking civilians, causing up to 3500 causalties or disappearances. What city? Oran?
  • Y Ooops, good catch. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Notable Pieds-Noirs

• Hard to think of this as a header without "Pied-noir" in it. Very list-y. Can you add more information - dates of birth and death? Even make it paragraph form?
  • I think it should be removed, but it existed when I came to the page. Maybe make it a separate list? Lazulilasher (talk) 19:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I also note that Pied-noir, Pied-Noir and pied-noir are all used. I do not speak French, but I think the capiltalization should be consistent throughout. If the caps differ, perhaps explain or note this in the Origins section.

• • Y I fixed this to make usage consistent. Lazulilasher (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)