Wikipedia:Peer review/Norman Birkett, 1st Baron Birkett/archive1

Norman Birkett, 1st Baron Birkett[edit]

This peer review discussion has been closed.

A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for February 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I'm (hoping) to bring it up at FAC and I want to clear as much out of the way as possible before that. It recently qualified as a Good Article after much tweaking, and I'd like to see what is necessary to take it to the next level.

Thanks, Ironholds (talk) 10:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: This seems over all very well done and nearly ready for FAC. I have one major concern and a bunch of nitpicks - here are some suggestions for improvement.

The major concern is that 94 of the 100 numbered refs are from the same book. I realize there is probably only one standard biography of him (if there are more, then they should be quoted too), but it seems to me that this might be seen as an issue (WP:POV probably) at FAC. The Nuremberg trials are very well documented, so there must be good supplementary sources there. I also did a search on his name at Amazon and came up with several other books that mentioned him. My guess is you would not have to add a lot of new sources, but several more used judiciously (sorry, couldn't resist the pun) would help. It may be the other 6 sources listed could be cited in other places too.
The supplementary resources rarely mention Birkett, but I'll try and link em in. There are three main books about Birkett: This one, one about "famous cases" which contains almost no biographical information and a biography written by his clerk. The last one has been described in every review/comment I've seen of it as overly long and excessively fawning: I think that is more likely to create POV issues than just using the current text. I'll try and work things in from google books or something. Ironholds (talk) 18:40, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My guess is even a fawning biograpy still has the basic details right (so you can use it for things like dates of birth, entry to university and the bar, etc.). The famous cases book sounds like it would be good to back up , um, er, famous cases he was involved in. I still think if his influence on the Nuremberg Trials was as great as is claimed, it should be mentioned in several of the histories of those trials. I don't have a problem with chiefly using one biography, but it seems quite problematic to almost entirely use just one when there are others available. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Available" is the thing; this book alone was hell to find. I found one more decent-looking bio; i'll try and order it for all of 1.66. Ironholds (talk) 22:24, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have access to Interlibrary loan? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 05:06, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but the books I found are relatively old/rare/natty and the institute in question wasn't happy in them being sent off-site. Regardless I've ordered a used version of the book, and I'll get it on (I think) the 23rd. Ironholds (talk) 08:33, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Now for the nitpicks... I would link several terms that are likely to be unfamiliar to many non-British readers, such as draper and barrister (most Americans will not know what one is, or at least how a solicitor is different). Maiden speech later is also worth a link, may be others I missed.
Would it make sense in the lead to say that KC is later QC, i.e. they are the same (in and was made a King's Counsel in 1924.)?
So for example "King's Counsel (now referred to as Queen's Counsel) or something? Ironholds (talk) 18:35, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably he became a QC when Elizabeth II became monarch, so perhaps something like this and was made a King's Counsel in 1924 (this changed to Queen's Counsel in 1952 when Elizabeth II became monarch). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Ironholds (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Images are very nice, but a few run afoul of WP:MOS#Image. Since it faces left, File:Marshall-hall.jpg should be right justified to face the text. For accessibility reasons, File:Nuremberg judges.jpg should not be left justified under a level three header (see WP:ACCESS).
Okie-dokes: I'll try and find an extra image somewhere to avoid having to remove the Nuremberg one, and I'll get my photoshop bitch to switch the image around.
Ugh - I hate flipped images. Why can't they just be right justified? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 22:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Right justified? Ironholds (talk) 22:25, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If it uses the "left" parameter it is left justified (like Ramsay MacDonald's image is now), if it has no parameter or specifies "right" it is right justified (like the Marshall-hall image is now). I thought you were going to make a mirror image of it (facing the other way, or "flipped") - sorry for the confusion. By the way, now there are two images under level three headers - a no-no per WP:ACCESS. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 05:06, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gah, I'm not an image person :S. Any chance you could take a couple of minutes to fix it? I'm now quite confused :(. Ironholds (talk) 08:31, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Make sure to provide context to the reader, for example add "as Baron" to ... son Michael Birkett on 22 October 1929, who succeeded his father [as Baron] on his death.[43]
Other than that I can't see any major issues - well done and very interesting.

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:29, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why is William in brackets?
He was always known as Norman. Any suggestions as to how I should change it, then? Ironholds (talk) 19:30, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What is a "noted barrister"?
Famous, known outside the profession, so on. I've changed it to better reflect what he actually did. Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"He became Vice-President the following term, and President the term after that" Why the caps?
Erm.. they're titles? See Cambridge Union Society; a bit more than a standard student society. Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"with a wage of £200 a year" How much is that today, approximately?
I'll try and find a ref. Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"cementing his reputation as a speaker" Odd choice of lexis there imo.
Alternate suggestions? Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"He took Part 1 of the Bar Examination" Capitalisation again, necessary?
Done. Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The outbreak of World War I did much to make up for his lost time (he was thirty by the time he joined the bar); many of the younger and fitter barristers were called up for war service, while Birkett was declared medically unfit; It became apparent he was suffering from tuberculosis, and he returned to Ulverston for six months to recover." Very long sentence.

Split it: hope you like the new'un. Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"and although he lost he impressed Hall enough" Should that not be Marshall-Hall?
Done. Ironholds (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am too a bit bothered that the article relies almost entirely on one source - is there nothing else written about him elsewhere? Majorly talk 19:12, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the last point see my comment above; the rest I'll work in. Ironholds (talk) 19:29, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]