Wikipedia:Peer review/Michael Jordan/archive1

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Michael Jordan[edit]

As many of you know, MJ is one of the all-time greatest NBA players and probably the most iconic athlete of the 20th century. The article is already a GA and is really well sourced, and before going for FAC, I would like to hear some feedback.

  • Article size ok (61 kb), or should be parts split off?
  • Is the prose compelling, or does it slack off in parts?
  • Do we need year references in the subsections?
  • Footnotes or not into the lead? (I have seen both in FAs)
  • Do we need comprehensive stats of every Jordan year, and every Chicago Bulls / Washington Wizards season performances? (IMHO yes, but it also makes the article verbose)
  • Comprehensible for non-basketball experts (de we need to explain "post up", "triple double", "fadeaway jumper" etc.?)
  • "Player profile": comprehensible for non-experts?
  • "Personal life": enough info on the man behind the athlete (childhood? youth? parents? idols?)
  • Misc hints and tips?

Thanks for reading. —Onomatopoeia 11:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a lot of work on the MJ article and am here to address any concerns. Quadzilla99 16:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

terminology confusing non-experts[edit]

most of the bball terms can be wikified, of which i don't think there are many left unwikified. however, i know nuts about baseball, and looking at the baseball section, i have no idea what all those baseball terminology means.Chensiyuan 16:50, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Quadzilla99 16:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

footnotes[edit]

the part about the fine imposed over him reverting to jersey number 23, would be good to have it referenced. Chensiyuan 16:54, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Quadzilla99 17:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i know the part about him being underdeveloped when he was only 180 cm is mentioned in the source found in footnote 1 (nba history site), but the reference point is actually located at the part where he grew inches. where exactly should the reference point be? Chensiyuan 15:09, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you wanted to you could put it in both places, I guess. Quadzilla99 18:31, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

prose[edit]

i think it's consistent in style. Chensiyuan 16:54, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it *is* a touch over-sectionised, but I don't know enough about the subject matter to suggest how you could best reduce that into fewer, longer sections. I think you're generally okay as far as size goes, however — the readable prose is only about 38kb, which I should think is pretty acceptable. I'd be careful it didn't creep up much higher than that, though, if you're planning on going for FAC. Angmering 20:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing and maybe that's why it seems longer than other articles such as Bill Russell I'll try to combine one or two sections. We have made a conscious effort to keep the size down. Quadzilla99 20:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

personal life etc.[edit]

there's a line about how he's one of the most marketed athletes. there's also a part about how he has made xx millions from endorsements. might it also be useful to have something in there about his exact net worth or his total endorsement earnings... if such information exists. it would go some way in showing why and how he's the most marketed athlete. may also put in perspective how much he earns relative to other big names like golf and tennis stars who do endorsements. Chensiyuan 13:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't been able to locate a source that says exactly how much he made, you're welcome to look. Quadzilla99 18:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
okay, some interesting stuff i see here, would check it out soon if they're for real. Chensiyuan 22:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
so far some consistent reports of him worth 400 million and responsible for generating 10 billion for nike... but none are primary sources. will try to something primary... Chensiyuan 23:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah old estimates put him at somewhere around $432 milllion but they're old and there's none I've seen that say specifically how much he made off of advertisements and how much was player salary. Unless we have some definite number I would't want to put speculation in there. Quadzilla99 00:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
okay forbes here states his 2006 "pay" is 32 million; but this info without more of course does not provide the full picture. will see what else is out there. Chensiyuan 05:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure why this is important for two reasons: 1) There's no statement of his exact net worth because unlike a public company he doesn't have to declare his net worth, and 2) once you state he's worth several hundred million dollars people get the general idea he's loaded. Plus you're not going to get more then semi-reliable estimates guessing at his current income and net worth. Quadzilla99 07:00, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LuciferMorgan[edit]

"Opinions of Jordan as an executive were mixed. He managed to purge the team of several highly-paid, unpopular players (like forward Juwan Howard and point guard Rod Strickland), but his lasting legacy as GM of the Wizards will probably be his selection of high school prospect Kwame Brown with the first pick in the 2001 NBA Draft, a move that has been roundly criticized in hindsight."

Opinions? Whose opinions? Can you quote these opinions? Can you prove these players you name are unpopular? Also, who deems what his lasting legacy - name this person or people, otherwise it comes across as weasly. LuciferMorgan 03:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Done all that stuff was common knowledge still it should have been sourced, wasn't hard to do considering how well-known it is. Quadzilla99 04:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Automated[edit]

I cut and pasted the automated results here:

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

Fixed.
  • See if possible if there is a free use image that can go on the top right corner of this article.[?]
Irrelevant. Quadzilla99 09:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 10 cm, use 10 cm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 10 cm.[?]
Fixed. Quadzilla99 10:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), please spell out source units of measurements in text; for example, the Moon is 380,000 kilometres (240,000 mi) from Earth.[?] Specifically, an example is 5 ft.
Fixed. Quadzilla99 10:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The ones in the refernces weren't done, they were fixed by User Charlotte's Web. Quadzilla99 09:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.[?]
Fixed. Quadzilla99 09:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This article may need to undergo summary style, where a series of appropriate subpages are used. For example, if the article is United States, than an appropriate subpage would be History of the United States, such that a summary of the subpage exists on the mother article, while the subpage goes into more detail.[?]
Subpages have already been created, given the status of figure the length is probably acceptable. We have made a conscious effort to keep size down. Quadzilla99 09:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
Done to my satisfaction. It's still in line for the League of Copyeditors so we'll see what they have to say. Quadzilla99 09:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid using contractions like (outside of quotations): Can't.
All used in quotes.
  • As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?]
I made a conscious effort to do this when working on the article. Quadzilla99 09:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Done fairly well, and it's on the waiting list at the League of Copyeditors so it will get another copyedit before it's made a FAC. Quadzilla99 09:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, APR t 22:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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