Wikipedia:Peer review/LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987)/archive1

LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987)

I've listed this article for peer review because the article has come quite a long way from its creation in late 2011 and its appearance as a DYK blurb on the Main Page. Right now, the biography section is fairly comprehensive, with parts of her early life, early career as an indie musician, and her major career. As my second favorite singer (next to Mami Kawada, whose article I've brought to peer review three separate times), I was hoping to improve her article to Good Article status (there are quite a few sources and interviews with her online, I just haven't had the time to add them to the article, including sources regarding her musical style). I'm not sure if an article can be nominated for DYK more than once (say, once for creation and once for reaching Good Article status), but if it could, it would be a great achievement and promotion for the Anime and Manga WikiProject, which right now is lacking in active members.

Anyway, I still feel that the article is lacking a few things. For example, it doesn't have (yet) a section on her musical style (although her influences are mentioned in he biography). But as always, further help is appreciated. Other than this, what else can be done or expanded to give the article a good shot at passing a GAN?

Thanks, Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:58, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I skimmed over the article and it looks good. Just like you said, it needs a 'musical influences/style' section. Also, I noticed that her birth date is not sourced? Here are some minor issues I noticed:

You say "In primary school, she was inspired by seeing the band Speed on television", but that sounds ambiguous to me. Was she inspired to sing? Perform on piano? Or, make her debut as a singer?

"During her sophomore year, the band received advice that they should start making their own songs..." this might get challenged ({{By whom}})

It'd be better to give a translation of the Japanese song titles. It's just my suggestion though.

How about giving a critic commentary or something for significant releases along with the chart positions?

I know it's hard to get information on Japanese artists or works, but you have found some interesting facts about her. Good luck, this will make it through the GAN, I'm sure. Ryoga (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

@Ryoga Godai: The biographical stuff was taken from her Japanese Wikipedia page so they were just as ambiguous there. From what I can comprehend, I guess she was "influenced" (not really inspired) by Speed, though it could also be said that seeing them on TV helped her decided to become a singer. For the birthdate, I guess I'll just use Chucky's old biography since it's mentioned there. Finally, for the advice portion, I guess Chucky received advice from their peers. I'll fix those issues in a moment. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 15:13, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

I've addressed some of the issues raised above. If I have enough time (since I'm going back to university in a few days) I'll probably add a section on reception and music influences soon. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 15:34, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Japanese Wikipedia has some of the weirdest statements out there. I guess the admins and bureaucrats are low on number there. The corrections fit in pretty well, the article is looking good. Is any data on how she ranks among anime song singers available? Like a poll, a commentary or something like that? That would be beneficial to the article too, I think. Ryoga (talk) 15:54, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

@Ryoga Godai: I don't know, but given that she's performed solo at the Budokan thrice (and sold out twice), got cast in the Japanese dub of Minions, and has a number of gold records, she's probably in the upper tier of anison artists. If anything, she's at the very least three times as popular as Kawada. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 15:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

If we can find a source for that, Oricon, Billboard, or any other newspaper, it'd be a great addition to the article! Ryoga (talk) 16:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Okay here's my feedback:

• Is "Love is Same All" a backronym, that is, it was constructed for her band, since Lisa was originally Risa? But I guess it can flop either way, not like BoA and Beat of Angel.
• Found two dead links that should be able to be wayback'ed to their archives.

Thanks, will try to fix those. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• "In primary school, she was inspired to sing by seeing the band" replace "sing by" with " sing after" ? Similar thoughts as the previous review.
• years active, should it be 2010-present as her high school bands shouldn't really count toward her professional career. associated_acts should also exclude those.
• The part about the band being named Love is Same All and herself being named that makes it a bit confusing, like whether there should be a LiSA (band)? Has it stayed around to support her music work or did it break up after she worked with Girls Dead Monster and started a solo career?

I think "Love is Same All" would be the band that comes with her during her live performances. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• Girls Dead Monster / Keep the Beats! should be split from her discography to be put in a collaborations section.
  • I suppose that would make sense since technically she did not sing on those releases under the name LiSA. Would the 1 album and 4 singles then be split into its own Girls Dead Monster section then?--十八 10:11, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
    • It's hard to say since parts of Girls Dead Monster are covered by the Angel Beats soundtrack article and other parts by Angel Beats! article. It can have its own table along with other collaborations. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 00:09, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
• "Lisa covered the songs ...": cover implies the song was released for a different artist before and she is singing her cover version. Is that true? If not, change the wording.

Those songs from Kagerou Project were covers. If I recall correctly, the original songs used Vocaloids. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• Might be good to have a section on her style. She sings a lot of anison, and mentioned Avril Lavigne as an influence. Is her music similar to that or is it more general J-pop? Any information about her vocal range? There's some good stuff in the Natalie interview about her being influenced by Blink 182, Oasis, Green Day.

Will try to write a section. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• Also mention of Oricon top tens is okay for the history section. That she regularly has hits in the top ten (despite the charts being overwhelmed by AKB48 and the like) is fairly notable. She's not like some of those voice artists who consider themselves singers but their character albums land somewhere between 70 and 200.
• Mention of any tours to promote the album? Has she done nationwide tours?

She has tours for each of her albums. I might add a few stuff, including her Budokan concerts, one of which sold out on both days. I could also mention that some stops on her Launcher tour had to be postponed due to illness. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• Has she been any farther from Singapore? Aha, check out her Anime Expo bio:[1]

In case you're interested, she actually had a mini-concert in the Philippines on June 27, and I was able to see and even speak to her personally. She's also been to Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, the United States, China (includes Hong Kong), Taiwan, and Mexico, as far as I know. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

• Number of Gold albums/singles? Only see the one for Keep the Beats! Can you get some more RIAJ certifications listed if that were the case?

In case you missed it, Crossing Field was also certified Gold. Nevertheless, I'll add it to the article text. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 08:24, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:52, 2 August 2015 (UTC) updated 05:14, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: Some of the issues above have now been addressed. Pinging Juhachi, the article's creator and primary editor, for help in addressing the other issues that still need to be fixed. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:05, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Some of her top ten hits should also chart in Billboard Japan, so you might want to visit that site? If they didn't chart there, then nevermind. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 00:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

The discography needs a little work! It's in a style not used for quite a few years now (e.g. sources directly on the chart position numbers, the year of release in the prioritised column over the release name, catalogue codes in the details box, etc.). There aren't any Billboard positions listed, and a big chunk of her certifications are missing (gold digital for Oath Sign, platinum digital for Crossing Field, gold digital for Rising Hope). The titles should also have kanji/translations next to their titles as well. Oh, and I think Leters to U is mis-sorted, it's an EP/mini-album, not a studio album, right? --Prosperosity (talk) 04:44, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and "Bright Flight / L. Miranic" isn't a song, it's two songs (so that needs to be formatted a little differently). --Prosperosity (talk) 04:45, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I made some additions, what do you think? --Prosperosity (talk) 08:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks really good! Thanks for structuring it! AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 13:21, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: @Prosperosity: Many thanks for the fixes in the discography section. Now could you help in expanding the musical style section? Because I think once that's finished the article could be good enough to have a GAN. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:35, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't really know her that well and I'm a little strapped for time, so I'm sure you or someone else would be able to find out more info than I could! --Prosperosity (talk) 04:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: @Juhachi: @Prosperosity: It was a lot of hard work (and making sense with what Google Translate came up with), but I finally expanded the stubbish Musical style and influences section. Three paragraphs long, which I guess in proportion to the rest of the article is okay. Anyway, I still think the section might need some work: I'm not very confident with the wording I used, while due to the nature of Google Translate I don't even know if some of the information I added is correct or not, so it could need some double checking with the sources. Anyway, how is the article now? Is it good enough for a GAN? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:52, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for digging up those details. It needs a little bit of structuring; is color a regular theme for her work? I'm also trying to get an understanding of the musical range of her work. Is it mostly rock? Anison? R&B? Pop? Are the dark songs typical of her repertoire or the exceptions? As a songwriter and lyricist what are the themes she tends to cover? It should be good to push for GA for the overall article. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:21, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

@AngusWOOF: I'm afraid I have no idea, I just included what the sources said. With that said, it could be argued that she's mostly a rock singer, but I have no idea on how to include and/or cite that, lest I fall into original research territory. And the section does have some structure: it's in chronological order, although I have no idea if that's an acceptable way to structure musical style sections (it's what I did to Mami Kawada's article months ago, prior to that article's most recent peer review). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 15:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments from RO

Lead

• Initially a singer for an indie band

Is the band notable? Or do you mean to say, "Initially an indie singer"?

• Lead seems kinda short. Be certain you've summarized each section properly.

Early years and major debut

• under the influence of her mother

Under the influence means drunk of high, so better to rephrase this.

• she found music lessons to be fun

"She enjoyed music lessons"

• She later started taking dance and vocal lessons

Instead of "started taking", how about just "she later took"?

• Nevertheless, after graduation, it became difficult to continue performing as a band

Why?

• LiSA wrote all lyrics for the album

"LiSA wrote the album's lyrics"

2012–present

• performed her first concert in North America there on July 1.

What city?

• Try to weave a narrative into this section, which is currently too much like a list of singles crammed into paragraphs.
• On January 3, 2014, LiSA held a solo concert at the Nippon Budokan.[22]

Did lots of people turn out?

• She held her second Nippon Budokan concert on January 10 and 11, 2015

This implies the first one was a success, but you don't provide any details about it.

Musical style and influences

• allowed her to show her true colors as a singer

Which were?

• her music would continue to have an atmosphere of rock

Really? Is she rock or pop?

• LiSA uses the phrase "kyō mo ii hi da" (今日もいい日だっ?, "Another Great Day") as a theme throughout her career;[3]

To make sense with "throughout her career", "uses" ought to be "has used".

• However, she was able to receive several favorable responses to the single

Avoid using "however" in formal writing.

• I don't see any indication of who writes her songs.

Conclusion

Pretty good overall. There's some work to be done before GAN though. I also wonder if this music is as dark as she says, or is she trying to look more rock than pop. It would be better to give some opinions from neutral third-parties, versus telling us what she thinks of her music. Keep up the great work! RO^(talk) 19:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

@Rationalobserver: Sorry for the late reply, but I've done a few rewrites here and there. In particular, I was able to find a Western review for one of her albums, I've clarified some statements, and slightly expanded the lede. What do you think? What else could be done so that this could pass a GAN? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:35, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not too big on the GAN expectations, so you'd be better off asking someone who does regular GA reviews. I stick to PR for the most part. Sorry I couldn't be more help. RO^(talk) 15:39, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

I was asked for another round for comments so here goes:

• Intro: add a line about her singles reaching top ten in Oricon.
• Early years section mentions piano lessons and music lessons. Were the music lessons also private or part of the school curriculum (music class)? Or are they the same piano lessons?
• "began to aspire to become an artist" a bit wordy
• Change "continue performing as a band, which lead to Chucky's disbandment. After Chucky broke up" TO "continue performing. Following Chucky's disbandment in July 2008, she moved to Tokyo..."
• "The band" is singular, but "Chucky" can be plural. Some minor rephrasing would be helpful.
• "As Girls Dead Monster, LiSA put out three singles" Is there a way to phrase it so it's clear these are actual singles in Japan as opposed to in-story? I guess keeping LiSA in there helps that.
• "LiSA made her first appearance at the 2010 Animelo Summer Live" first concert appearance? or first appearance at 2010 Animelo?
• "Crossing Field" became her highest single ranking to date, peaking at number 5 in the weekly. But "Oath Sign" peaked at number 5 also?
• Also doesn't need to say "on the Oricon weekly charts" every single time, maybe shorten to Oricon or cut afterwards to "No. 15" on the same paragraph. Also is the albums chart named differently (e.g. Billboard 200 vs. Billboard Hot 100)?
• She wrote lyrics for (album list) and lyrics for the (single list); (single list2) was co-written with Shin - this could be constructed better? "She also collaborated with Shin Furuya on (single list2). But who is Shin Furuya? Also "Rising Hope" is listed in both (single list) and (single list2).
• what does 'showing her true colors" mean? It gets confusing, considering the themes of literal color (pink, black, etc.) are mentioned in the paragraph.

Regarding the themes and influences section, this needs to be organized a little more, suggesting, chronologically. Start with Anison and the music that she did for Girls Dead Monster and the anime shows. Then mention her solo singles with her transitioning in style, and then "Best Day, Best Way" and the beginning of using colors as a theme. Are there some reviews that describe her singing ability and range? Does she sound like typical J-pop voice or have some kind of distinct voice? Another option is to throw a bunch of it to beef up the career section and keep the section to mainly artistry and influences as with the Kelly Clarkson article, although that might make the section really small in content.AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:49, 4 September 2015 (UTC)