Wikipedia:Peer review/Joan Rivers/archive1

Joan Rivers

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because… She may be ready to become featured. Thanks, Theparties (talk) 06:59, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

The lead needs to be expanded to properly summarize the article. Hekerui (talk) 11:17, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Feedback from Bonnietylersave

• The lead could me 'meated' out a little. Without making it look like advertising or promotion, might be nice to add coverage of what Joan's been doing recently (with the Joan & Melissa show and her online show, for example. Maybe the DVD she released? I'm familiar with her work, just now how significant it was, so I'll leave you to judge what the most significant parts of her career are in recent years). It also needs to, as Hekerui said, summarize the article.
• References: I think based on references, the article probably isn't quite ready for FA status, but by all means gear your guns to aim for a GA status for the time being.
  • Actual cite formatting doesn't seem to be an issue, but some of the "retrieved" dates are in different formats. For example, one says "Retrieved July 6, 2013" and another "2011-11-25." It'd look neater to have them all written out in the same way.
  • Another nit-picking thing - based on scanning up and down the article, there's not a lot of references, only 54. Perhaps a bit OCD, but as I read over GA and FA articles, they usually have at least over 100 as long as there is enough reference resources online about the concerned subject.
• Section: "2000–present": There are a few un-sourced sentences that you might need to go over, such as
• When her TV shows are mentioned, or stage performances, etc, it'd be a good idea to add some critical reaction to end off the sections.
• Personal life: Not 'fan cruft' at all, relevant, non-trivial topics only. Definitely a strength!
• Awards and nominations: definitely needs references (this might be part of what'll stack up the number of references in the article). Sourcing the Theater work, Television work and Films sections might also be required. Also - it might be nice to find some more bullet points for the 'Honors' sub-section.
• The images used seem fine - no copyright issues.

Hope I was of help. Any questions or anything, come to me. I'd love to oversee the article's development. Bonnietylersave (talk) 16:24, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Onel5969 Comments

• Lead section. As both Hekerui and Bonnietylersave have already mentioned, the Lead needs to be fleshed out so as to represent a summary of the body of the article. Also needs to be sourced, which might help on the # of citations as mentioned by Bonnietylersave, here's the MOS link to give you an idea: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section.
• Early life.

• You mention the death of her older sister, were there other siblings?
• The language used needs to be cleaned, there are several sentences where the only referent is "she" or "her", making the paragraph clumsy reading.
• Did she get B.A.'s in both English Lit and Anthropology? Or is there a B.A. in English Lit & Anthropology? The placement of the citation makes this awkward.
• When did she attend Barnard? You might say something like ...1950 and 1952 before transferring to Barnard College where she graduate in 1954...
• What advertising agency. You mention the names of both her other places of employment.
• If known, it might be interesting to say WHY she selected Joan Rivers as her stage name.

• Early Career

• When you are speaking about a specific show, I think you need to be more specific about the date (e.g. Driftwood... what month and year), as opposed to when you are speaking about the numerous comedy clubs, which a date range is more appropriate.
• page links... a little overlinked, for example you've already linked New York City in the Early life section, and here you mis-link to the state of NY link.
• The second paragraph is very uneven, some of the sentences are awkwardly worded, and other sentences give the paragraph a short and choppy feel.
• That Show with Joan Rivers is a title, needs to be formatted as such.
• The last line of the second paragraph seems out of place chronologically.
• The last paragraph needs only slight editing regarding style. The only main issue I have is that you need to mention that her comedy act was the opening to those musical acts. As it reads now, one might think that she was also a musical performer (she wasn't was she?)

• 1980s-1990s

• The opening sentence is awkward.
• In the second paragraph, you say, "also in 1984", but you've made no reference to 1984 prior to that.
• I think you might break out the two controversies (Marino and The Late show), and put them both at the end. That way, this section reads as a summary of her career, and then speaks to the two controversies. You need a citation regarding Carson saying that he learned about the show from Fox, also, if known, you might want to add that it was the way he found out about it, and not her actually getting a show, which caused the rift.
• The sentence regarding Fox firing her and her husband needs to be re-written. You might reorganize it, something like "When Fox wanted to fire her husband, Rivers challenged them, resulting in Fox terminating them both".
• There's a dead page link to The Joan Rivers Show, which needs to be removed as per the MOS on linking: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Linking
• John Davidson (entertainer) should be page linked
• In the last paragraph, there needs to be a comma before Sally Marr. Also, the last sentence in the paragraph, while factually correct, reads very awkwardly due to the two different titles for the awards she won.
• On the whole, this section needs a few more references (e.g. regarding Rivers being influenced by the "dirty comedy" of Bruce; and the 2008 interview with Connolly, among others)

• 2000-Present

• I'm sorry, but this section is simply a mess. Some of that has to do with the nature of Rivers' resume itself, with lots of small short stints. This section needs a ton of work and a ton of additional citations. You've gotten the chronology down, for the most part, but there times when it is out of joint (for example you go from 2009 to 2010 to 2011 and 2012, then jump back to 2011, then to 2010 before going back to 2012.

• Personal Life

• You might want to say that Rivers second marriage "lasted until Rosenberg committed suicide..."
• The discussion of Melissa and her son is a bit awkward due to pronoun usage. To make it clearer, you might want to say, "Rivers has one grandson, Cooper..." (from the previous sentence, we know Rivers only has one child, so obviously Melissa is the mother)

• Filmography.

• The tables are very well done. There are empty page links in the Fun City entry which need to be removed.

• References

• As Bonnietylersave stated, you need to standardize the dates in the citations.
• The reference to Sochen does not seem to be in the correct format.

Hope this helps. Good luck with it.Onel5969 (talk) 19:10, 15 February 2014 (UTC)