Wikipedia:Peer review/Grade I listed buildings in Rhondda Cynon Taf/archive1

Grade I listed buildings in Rhondda Cynon Taf

I've listed this article for peer review because… I am interested to know what improvements would bring it closer to the level of a featured list. In particular the introductory text is the area I would like advice on, with regard to length and details that would be necessary based on the overall scope of the article, which is a lot narrower (only three items) than any of the listed buildings articles which are of featured list quality. I think the rest of the article should be ok - I've tried to be consistent with the formatting and citations - the main table uses the same style as one on a featured list article (Grade I listed buildings in Monmouthshire) from which I've checked its nomination/review and already made some improvements to this article based on the comments there. Thanks, EdwardUK (talk) 04:46, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments from KJP1

A short list, but there aren't many Grade Is in Rhondda Cynon Taf! Some suggestions below.

Lead

• Length - I think the third para. could be expanded a little. The three buildings are the focus of the list and you've space to say a bit more about them. You could use John Newman's Glamorgan, which has a few good snippets. I could scan and mail you the relevant pages if needed. Re. the bridge, he describes it as "the most famous and historic structure in Pontypridd", which is quite nice, and notes that Edwards' three earlier attempts all fell down due to design failings.(p=525) Re. the Hetty mine, where I'd link engine house, Newman calls it a "monumentally tall rusticated Pennant sandstone engine house" and notes that the Barker & Cope (he uses an ampersand) engine is still in situ.(p=366) I'd probably also mention the 1893 disaster; with 63 killed, it was quite notable. Newman doesn't cover it, but there's plenty available, [1]. Perhaps also a bit of an expansion on the importance of the coal industry in the South Wales Valleys? It's significant that two of the three listed structures are industrial. Unfortunately, the growth section of the Coalfield article's not well sourced, but there's plenty online, [2].
• "In Wales, the authority for listing or delisting, under the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990, rests with the Welsh Ministers, though these decisions are usually based on the recommendations of Cadw" - a couple of things here. I'd probably remove "the" before authority but it's purely a style preference. I would question/remove the "usually". This implies that there are circumstances in which ministers make listing decisions without/against Cadw advice. I doubt this, and it doesn't seem to be suggested by Source 6 which reads, "Although it is the responsibility of the Welsh Ministers to compile the list, in practice, we — Cadw — recommend which buildings should be listed or delisted." I suspect that they have the power to do so, but think it very unlikely that they would in practice.

List

• Citations - Not a big issue, but not sure that it's necessary to follow the Cadw cites by the BLBO cites. The text of both is, wholly?, the same, although I agree that the BLBO site has a few useful extra bits like images/ grid references etc. Great to see the Cadw template being used!
• Text in Notes column - is this best centralised or would it help the reader more if it just ran on as a block?
• Length measures - for the bridge, you convert metres to feet, for the engine house, metres to yards. Consistency?
• Barker and Cope - despite Newman (see above), Grace's Guide has it as you have,[3] so best leave it.
• Images - it ill befits me to moan, given the state of some of mine in the Monmouthshire lists, but the images aren't fabulous. Are there any better ones? Arguably, the first in the Hetty Pit category gives a bit more detail, and it's certainly brighter. Also, it gives another side of the structure, whereas the current 2 and 3 are the same view, taken from different standpoints. There's a pretty, and brighter, one of the bridge.

Criteria

• It looks to me like these are being met.

Suggested source

• Newman, John (1995). Glamorgan. The Buildings of Wales. London, UK: Penguin Books. ISBN 978-0-14-071056-4.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: ref duplicates default (link)

Overall

• I think you've done a grand job, and nothing's leaping out at me that would suggest it wouldn't pass FLC. Ping me when you take it there, and I'll comment. KJP1 (talk) 09:30, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. The shortness of the list was one of the reasons I thought it would be a good one to work on and from which I could learn and work out how to improve other similar articles. For the dual referencing, the article originally had BLBO but the listed building template used on many of these articles was modified to use Cadw as the "Reference Number", and at the same time it was noted that the notes section should have inline citations, it seemed unconstructive to remove BLBO so I both used. I've made a few changes and I'll have a look at the sources you've suggested and try expanding the lead over the next few weeks. EdwardUK (talk) 06:04, 14 July 2020 (UTC)