Wikipedia:Peer review/Geoffrey Boycott/archive3

Geoffrey Boycott

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because, after a successful GA, a failed FAC, and 2 x PR already, perhaps it is time for another stab at FAC.

Thanks, S.G.^(GH) _ping! 10:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Minor observation: reference 7 is used in the lede but nowhere else; my understanding is that everything in the lede should be repeated in the article. EdChem (talk) 11:45, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I've reused it in the stats section though seemed fairly redundant. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 12:12, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Reference 192 is reporting as dead. Keith D (talk) 21:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Replaced. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 22:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Brief comments

• You have the 'wikiquote' template twice in the article. Remove one—or both, replacing it with the 'Sister project' template.
• For references 'BBC Sport' and 'BBC News' are the work, BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) is the publisher. I have corrected one reference to demonstrate what you need to do for the others.
• Ref 192 is published on guardian.co.uk, not 'The Guardian' newspaper as it was a blog.
• Ref 194 needs first and last name of writer.
• For the sussession box, where it says '(deputised 1977/8)' you need to replace it as '(deputised 1977–78)'
• In 'Test matches' under records, would you say the list could be developed as a paragraph rather than a list? – Lemonade51 (talk) 13:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Done as suggested S.G.^(GH) _ping! 14:23, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments from Sarastro1: I'm being rather nit-picky here, and feel free to disagree or argue. The article is looking very good overall, and the prose is pretty good. However, it's a long article and so there are bound to be slips that would be picked up at FAC. If I don't drive you to blind rage by my first lot of comments, I will add more later. --Sarastro1 (talk) 15:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

• Lead: Maybe more of an overview of his career is needed here. For example, his self imposed exile from the England team, his captaincy of Yorkshire (and England), and a bit more about his success on the playing side. Whatever his faults, he had a very impressive batting record but this does not really come across in the lead. Similarly, his successful years in the 1970s were clouded by accusations of slow-scoring and selfishness. Apart from one comment saying he was not selfish, this does not come across either.
• Maybe say when he averaged over 100? And 100.00, although I know why it is there, looks strange here and a simple "averaged over 100" would be enough.

 Done S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "He was the eldest of three sons of Jane (14 November 1915–1978)": Are her dates necessary?

 Done removed S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "chest by the handle of an unturned mangle": What is an unturned mangle and how would this affect his injury?

 Done wikilinked S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• I'm not sure the fate of his father is entirely relevant.

I personally find it interesting and relevant that his father died when he was quite young and in the midst of his playing career, but happy to remove it if other people concur. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "There, playing cricket…" Not sure "playing cricket" is needed. If there are any worries about ambiguity (I think it is obvious which sport we are talking about), the end of the sentence could be tweaked to "…in a school cricket match".

 Done S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "demonstrating "outstanding ability."": This needs in-text attribution per WP:INTEXT.
• "he began to have difficulties reading the blackboard": Perhaps too specific; maybe "difficulties with his distance vision"?

I would personally rather leave this included as, according to the biography, it was the event of his difficulties reading the blackboard that led to the realisation that he needed glasses. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "At first, he played poorly at school in fragile spectacles before a more robust pair was fashioned for him at the behest of his uncle—a strong influence on his early game—similar to those glasses worn by cricketer Roy Marshall.": Too much going on here; the uncle part should go elsewhere if it is important, and the rest is a little too detailed. Was it the quality of the glasses, problems with their fragility, or just worry that they would break that affected his performance? Maybe something like: "Initially, his cricket was adversely affected by his new spectacles [give reason?], until he acquired a more robust pair."

 Done reworded. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "In the summer he played for the Leeds United under-18 football team alongside Billy Bremner and attracted the attention of Leeds United scouts." Was this one summer only?

That summer only, reworded. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "During the winter he played cricket in the nets at his uncle John Lawrence's house,[24] and was invited to the winter nets for Yorkshire Cricket Club by Clifford Hesketh.[25]": This repeats the previous mention of what happened in the winter; could the two mentions be combined?

Reworded. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "He also played for the Yorkshire Federation's Under-18 team, and for Barnsley, where he was noticed by Clifford Hesketh, a member of Yorkshire's County Cricket team committee.[26]": This seems to contradict the earlyer mention of Hesketh.

It's a jumble in the chronology, fixed. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• Last para of Early Life: Consecutive sentences begin Boycott, He, He, He.

Swapped one. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• "Boycott began playing for his home county in 1962 after topping the averages for Leeds, Yorkshire Colts and Yorkshire Second XI.": When did he play for Leeds? Or does it mean a Leeds league? And I don't think the Colts are mentioned anywhere in this section or the previous one.
• "Early years" is a little similar to "Early life" and maybe a better title could be used?

Renamed. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 17:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

• The first paragraph of Early years is a little quote heavy for my liking. The quote from Foord (needs a ref) is a little weak in my view (he was hardly a flashing player as this quote would seem to suggest), and I'm never entirely taken with Dickie Bird as an authority on other players. Although I would not insist anything had to be done here, I can't help thinking that the section would flow just as well if the quotes came out and the first two paragraphs were combined.
• Maybe suggest how his second XI form earned his first team place in this section, rather than in the introduction to his county career.
• "he scored six and 21*": Only cricketers will understand the asterisk, and it is better to say (and link) "not out".
• I seem to remember he did not open the batting in 1963, and may have been promoted to opener during this season. Worth mentioning? (I think there is a reference in the 1964 Wisden which I may be able to dig out).
• "According to captain, Close, at Lord's after Yorkshire had slowly reached 22/1, he Close promoted himself to number three in the batting order so that he could urge Boycott into action.": Not sure what has happened but this sentence seems a bit messed up.
• "Boycott subsequently hit 15  fours and three sixes,[37] even though the modern-day fielding restrictions, which facilitate rapid scoring, did not exist in 1965.": Why mention modern fielding restrictions?
• We go from detailed accounts of his first seasons to barely mentioning some of the later ones in the 1960s: one innings (albeit an important one) from 1965, one match from 1966, one innings and his place in the averages from 1968, one innings 1970. Five innings in six seasons and nothing else. Even a brief summary of his performances would help. And maybe a new paragraph after the Gillette innings (I agree it needs quite a bit on that one innings, and I believe he once described it as his best innings).

More to follow if desired, and I'm up to the end of "Early years" so far. --Sarastro1 (talk) 15:47, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments always welcome, though I'll have to get stuck in to them tomorrow - 12h shifts are a killer. Zzzzz. S.G.^(GH) _ping! 19:14, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

More comments up to end of Later years

• "Boycott captained Yorkshire for eight seasons from 1971 to 1978, having been appointed following the sacking of Brian Close in 1970.": Already mentioned at the end of the previous section and I don't think it is needed again. The next sentence is a little similar to the end of the previous section as well. To be honest, I'd be inclined to leave these parts here and cut the captaincy bit from the previous section instead.
• "He also caused strife between his fellow players, including a reciprocated dislike for Richard Hutton, with many players leaving the club citing personal differences with Boycott as the reason for their departure.": Not sure about the phrasing here. Strife between suggests that he caused other players to fall out; is this correct? Also "with many players leaving" is not the best construction at FAC. Maybe something like "He also had difficulties with his fellow players, including a reciprocated dislike for Richard Hutton, and many players left the club citing personal differences with Boycott as their reason."
• Part about Transvaal is odd. Aside from the isolation question, if he went to play for them, why only play one match?
• "low in the Championship table": Not every season; e.g. 2nd in 1975.
• Without context, Trueman's criticism does not really make sense. On paper, his record was outstanding; it was the pace at which he scored that was controversial and this was blamed by some for Yorkshire's lack of success.
• "In 1974 Boycott's form dipped, when he scored only 75 runs in the first innings of the season, other than a non-championship century against Cambridge University." This doesn't quite make sense.
• "He did, however, score 152* against Worcestershire on 15 May to complete his tour of centuries against every first-class county.": Again, the use of * may not be a good idea, and "tour of centuries" is slightly odd phrasing.
• "A poll of the dressing room showed that 95% of the players wanted a permanent change in the captaincy.": Seems an oddly round figure! If possible, actual numbers may be better or it seems like pro-Boycott propaganda from the time.
• Passing Hutton's record of centuries makes sense to me as a dyed-in-the-wool Yorkshire fan, but may seem a little arbitrary to those not "in the know"!
• "He would experience growing friction with Hutton's son, Yorkshire's Richard, as well as with later Yorkshire captain John Hampshire.": Not sure about the phrasing and we are getting into repetitive "He... he..." sentence structures. Is this different "friction" from that mentioned earlier? If so, why and what caused it?
• "In the early 1980s Boycott continued his run of form, although a slow 347-ball knock of 140* incensed captain, Ray Illingworth, and created friction between Boycott and the rest of the Yorkshire Committee.": Repetition of "friction" and I think a date is necessary for this innings; why did it cause friction? And if it is the "rest" of the committee, who are the other members involved? Boycott? Illingworth? I think it should be made clear. And I think the asterisk needs to go.
• Are we giving batting figures here or not? They are given in 79 and 80, but then only single innings are mentioned later. Any particular reason? My inclination is to include them, but I am a sad completist so I would not insist on it. But the change in style does not seem to have any obvious reason.
• And another "friction" in the next paragraph.
• "while Boycott in his biography ": Presumably this is McKinstry's book, but this looks like it should say autobiography. Maybe something like "while Boycott told Leo McKinstry..."?
• "Of the replacement members, 17 were from the Members 84 Group": Maybe make it clear there was an election for members?
• "This was coupled with continued friction": Another friction
• "In particular, Boycott's place on both the team and the committee led to feelings of distrust from both – though Boycott denies this – which led to the loss of support from long-term ally Sid Fielden.": A little unclear; presumably distrust (or is it mistrust?) of Boycott, and what is Boycott denying? And why should this article be right and Boycott wrong? If we are including Boycott's denial, then it should be made clear who is making claims of distrust?
• "1986 saw Boycott score 890 runs": I'm not a fan of starting a sentence with a year or the use of "saw" in this sense, but those are only my opinions.
• "Both Brian Close and Ray Illingworth increasingly advocated his removal to Yorkshire's committee": Missing word?
• "He suggests that Close and Illingworth feared his popularity.": The previous sentence was written in the past tense, this is in the present.
• I seem to recall reading that he had the highest career average of a player based in England at the time of his retirement, passing that of Ranji. I may be able to dig out the reference if you want it.
• I think the official Yorkshire history has a bit more on his removal as captain and his feud with Hampshire. I'll try to dig it out and see what it says, but I seem to remember promising this before and failing to deliver!
• Watch out for too many sentences beginning "In" or "On".
• I fixed a few missing commas in 4 digit numbers, but may have missed some. Maybe check for others.

More to come if this doesn't finish you off! However, most of my comments are minor and this is looking good so far: probably just needs that last polish to make it ready for FAC. --Sarastro1 (talk) 16:23, 5 February 2012 (UTC)