Wikipedia:Peer review/Dreaming of You (album)/archive1
Dreaming of You (album)[edit]
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I've listed this article because the article has failed FA and GA standards. Poor grammar is the main cause of the failures and I would like someone else's opinion on helping me copy-edit this article so it can be re-nominated for a featured article. Thank you, AJona1992 (talk) 19:40, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Hi, I have read through the article and have to agree with the last GA reviewer that the prose is poor and often ungrammatical. I note that you have been pointed at the WP:Guild of copyeditors, but that you do not feel comfortable with this. Alternative suggestions are made at User:Tony1/How to improve your writing and the linked articles. I would suggest that you read through this thoroughly, practice the suggested exercises and look for other experienced editors in the fields that you work in regularly who may be able to offer pointers. Wikipedia:Use plain English also has good advice. Writing "reasonably good prose" is a skill that takes time to develop and considerable effort. Reading George Orwell's 1946 essay Politics and the English Language is also highly recommended. Although written over fifty years ago, the points raised in this essay are still very true today.
- For some starting points, you may wish to run the automated tips peer reviewer in the box at the top right of this page. Treat the results with caution, but it usually throws up some valid points. Hope this helps. It may seem like a lot of stuff, but developing writing skills does take some time. There are really no short-cuts. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:37, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
Ruhrfisch comments: Peer review is more a place to have problems pointed out than to have them fixed here. I agree that this needs some major work, so here are some suggestions for improvement.
- I am not sure why you do not want to use WP:GOCe, but there are also people who are willing to help with copyedits listed at WP:PR/V.
- Another trick is to not look at the article for several days, then print it out and read it alound slowly. Often this helps you to catch errors that are missed by just reading due to familiarity with the text. I agree that this desperately needs a copyedit.
- Another thing to look for is needless repetition. In just the lead, the fact that the album sold about 175,000 copies its first day is mentioned twice in the lead (although once it says over 175,000 and then 175,000 - which is it)
- I also note that the sales figure mentioned above does not seem to be repeated in the article (at least a search for 175,000 does not show it). The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. Nothing important should be in the lead only - since it is a summary, it should all be repeated in the body of the article itself.
- There is a fair use album cover image (pretty standard for articles on albums) and six fair use sound clips - how does this meet WP:NFCC?
- The section on the Tour has no refs and needs at least one.
- The article uses {{cquote}} but according the documentation at Template:Cquote this is for pull quotes only, and this should probably use {{blockquote}} instead.
- References are formatted oddly. For example, why is the year given twice in many refs, such as "Lannert, John (1997). "Year-to-date Latin Music Charts". Billboard (13 September 1997): 113. http://books.google.com/books?id=AQoEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80&dq=Selena+Dreaming+of+You&hl=en&ei=c7OcTO-4HsGC8gbugox2&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Selena%20Dreaming%20of%20You&f=false." Internet refs need access date too.
- Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in all peer reviews, in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)
Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:35, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- I will get to those concerns, I am still working with the article and expanding it further here since I found more articles from international sites. However, there's not a limit on music samples and this is the only place I go to for advise, everyone else doesn't bother with reviewing the articles I have expanded. AJona1992 (talk) 16:12, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- If you want this to become a FA, you might look at a recent failed FAC Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Holy Wood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death)/archive1 (from this month) which was opposed in part because the article on an album used 6 music samples. Please read WP:NFCC especially 3a. 3.a.Minimal usage. Multiple items of non-free content are not used if one item can convey equivalent significant information. How can you justitfy six different music samples and meet every single criteria at NFCC? (all criteria must me be met for WP:FAIR USE) Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:39, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- I have read WP:SAMPLE and it does not specify that there is a limit with adding music samples to any article on Wikipedia, its self. (1) "Only Love" was a song recorded by Selena to convey EMI Records to begin her crossover album in 1989, however, they declined because of the number of fans she, at the time, had. (2) "I'm Getting Used To You" - I don't mind removing this one because its only importance was that it peaked #22 on a music chart Selena never ventured in before. (3) "Techno Cumbia" - was remixed by A.B. Quintanilla III into a reggae/Dance Hall song to finish the rest of the album. Selena's sister, Suzette spoke about the song (on the 2002 re-issue of the album) that "Techno Cumbia" (remix version) is one of her well-known songs from the album because it uses modern sounds and is liked by children. (4) "Missing My Baby" - peaked #22 on the Rhythmic chart, it also features Full Force as back-up singers, which attributes the songs importance. (5) and (6) "Dreaming of You" and "I Could Fall in Love" are the most important music sample the album needs, not only that they are Selena's signature songs, they were featured in the 1997 movie about her life, they were given high praise in the English market. These are the only two songs (from this album) that continues to have extensive airplay today. AJona1992 (talk) 16:57, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- Peer reviews are one person's opinion, which you (or any editor) are free to ignore. However, WP:SAMPLE links to NFCC criterion 3a (which I linked to above) in its statement about minimal use: There is no limit to the number of samples that can be used in one article (although, critically, non-free samples are subject to requirements for minimal use), but keep in mind that music samples serve as tools for a better understanding of the article, so insert only relevant samples. These are all non-free samples and I really doubt that most FAC reviewers will be fine with 6 music samples for one album. Your call, and take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:16, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- I highly appreciate your comments and your opinions, out of the six that I can see out of the article is "I'm Getting Used To you" and "Techno Cumbia". The rest are highly crucial to the page. I'll try to find someone to help me with copy-editing the article. Thanks for your comments, AJona1992 (talk) 23:13, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- Peer reviews are one person's opinion, which you (or any editor) are free to ignore. However, WP:SAMPLE links to NFCC criterion 3a (which I linked to above) in its statement about minimal use: There is no limit to the number of samples that can be used in one article (although, critically, non-free samples are subject to requirements for minimal use), but keep in mind that music samples serve as tools for a better understanding of the article, so insert only relevant samples. These are all non-free samples and I really doubt that most FAC reviewers will be fine with 6 music samples for one album. Your call, and take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 21:16, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- I have read WP:SAMPLE and it does not specify that there is a limit with adding music samples to any article on Wikipedia, its self. (1) "Only Love" was a song recorded by Selena to convey EMI Records to begin her crossover album in 1989, however, they declined because of the number of fans she, at the time, had. (2) "I'm Getting Used To You" - I don't mind removing this one because its only importance was that it peaked #22 on a music chart Selena never ventured in before. (3) "Techno Cumbia" - was remixed by A.B. Quintanilla III into a reggae/Dance Hall song to finish the rest of the album. Selena's sister, Suzette spoke about the song (on the 2002 re-issue of the album) that "Techno Cumbia" (remix version) is one of her well-known songs from the album because it uses modern sounds and is liked by children. (4) "Missing My Baby" - peaked #22 on the Rhythmic chart, it also features Full Force as back-up singers, which attributes the songs importance. (5) and (6) "Dreaming of You" and "I Could Fall in Love" are the most important music sample the album needs, not only that they are Selena's signature songs, they were featured in the 1997 movie about her life, they were given high praise in the English market. These are the only two songs (from this album) that continues to have extensive airplay today. AJona1992 (talk) 16:57, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- If you want this to become a FA, you might look at a recent failed FAC Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Holy Wood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death)/archive1 (from this month) which was opposed in part because the article on an album used 6 music samples. Please read WP:NFCC especially 3a. 3.a.Minimal usage. Multiple items of non-free content are not used if one item can convey equivalent significant information. How can you justitfy six different music samples and meet every single criteria at NFCC? (all criteria must me be met for WP:FAIR USE) Ruhrfisch ><>°° 16:39, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
- I will get to those concerns, I am still working with the article and expanding it further here since I found more articles from international sites. However, there's not a limit on music samples and this is the only place I go to for advise, everyone else doesn't bother with reviewing the articles I have expanded. AJona1992 (talk) 16:12, 24 April 2011 (UTC)