Wikipedia:Peer review/Diary of a Wimpy Kid: The Deep End/archive1

Diary of a Wimpy Kid: The Deep End

I've listed this article for peer review because I think it's close to GA status, and I'd like help knowing what it needs for the final push. Any comments appreciated, especially on wording and the shorter sections.

Thanks, Microwavedfork (talk) 05:01, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Comments from Dugan Murphy

I just wrote Seventy-Six (novel) from scratch (my first article about a novel) and spent a bit of time looking at featured articles about novels as I did to get ideas. But I am way more familiar with articles about older books than newer ones. With that modest experience under my belt, here's what I have to offer:

• I found MOS:NOVELS very helpful for understanding what sections I should include in the article I wrote, and what those sections should include. If you're not already familiar, you might find it helpful as I did.
  • It is helpful, thanks.
• With that said, MOS:NOVELS makes it sound as if any article about a novel is incomplete without a "themes" section. Are there any reliable sources that discuss the themes of this story? As far as this novel is similar to others in the series, perhaps you could see what the Wiki articles for other Wimpy Kid books say about the themes in the series in general, which may well apply here.
  • I couldn't find any sources about this book's themes specifically. Common themes in the series (independence, social status, growing up) aren't as applicable to this story. Not sure what to put yet.
• Is there anything to say about the writing style of this book? What I said about themes I could say about style as well.
  • Didn't see any sources about it.
• I haven't read this book, but the fourth paragraph of the plot summary reads to me as being overly detailed compared to the rest of the plot summary.
  • That part of the story is one of the major plot points, rather than just taking up a few pages. I can't think of a shorter way to adequately describe it.
• I don't think pool party needs to be hyphenated. But I think party-themed should be.
  • Fixed.
• I think you should add some kind of date, dates, or date range for the pool party promotion so the reader knows when that happened.
  • Done.
• Any reason to use the section title "Development" rather than "Background", per MOS:NOVELS?
  • Fixed.
• This might be because I read more articles about old topics with lots of scholarship, but I read that short Reception section and want to see a more overarching, summary style statement about how the book has been viewed by critics and/or fans in general. Are there any reliable sources that can fill that gap? I see that you say this in the lede without citation to back it up, which seems to be a problem to me. You could easily fix that issue in the lede by saying "It received many positive reviews" instead of "It received generally positive reviews".
  • Done.
• The Reception and Sales sections are so short, perhaps they should be combined into one "Reception and Sales" section?
  • Sales is a subsection to be more in line with MOS:Novels. Should I get rid of the subsection entirely and just make it one paragraph under reception?
    • I can't find where in MOS:NOVELS it says that sales should be separated from reception in a subsection. Where are you getting that? Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
      • Oh, what I meant was that MOS:NOVELS says to include sales in the reception section, and I thought to keep the section named "Reception" rather than change it to keep with the MOS. Diary of a Wimpy Kid: The Meltdown, a GA, splits sales into a subsection, so I figured I would stick with that.
• Refs 4 and 5 are both YouTube videos, but the citation format is inconsistent between the two.
  • Both citations fixed.
• Your citations are inconsistent in spacing. Compare "Cite web|last=Kantor|first=Emma|date=|title=Wimpy Kid 15 Cover and Title Revealed" with "cite tweet |last=Kinney |first=Jeff |author-link=Jeff Kinney |user=wimpykid". This sounds really picky, but it's the kind of thing that gets brought up in FA and might get brought up in GA.
  • I don't know how to see or fix this.
    • Oh, it's as simple as deleting the unwanted spaces or adding them where desired. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
      • Makes sense, but I don't see where the spaces are different. When I go to edit the Twitter citation there aren't spaces at the end for me.
• I'm of the persuasion that with little exception, the lede should only include information written elsewhere in the article, thus it shouldn't need any citations. I realize that a history on the book's publication history is unwarranted for a new book like this, but maybe you fit this in at the end of the Development Section or the beginning of the Reception section? Or the beginning of the promotion section?
  • I'm not really sure what you mean by this.
    • There's only one citation in the WP:LEDE section, which is for the publication date. I'm saying you should add that information somewhere to the body of the article, along with the citation. Then you can remove the citation from the lede. The lede is supposed to be a summary of content in the body, so anything in the lede that would need to be cited should be cited elsewhere. It's up to you to decide where the publication date best fits. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
      • Gotcha, think I've fixed it.
• I don't see anything from the Development section in the lede. A summary sentence about it could fill it out a little more.
  • Added.
• The infobox should Wikilink Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Big Shot, not Diary of a Wimpy Kid as the next book in the series, right?
  • Fixed.
• There must be some appropriate external links to post here, right?
  • Done.

That's what I see. I like that everything outside the plot summary is cited. And the prose is easy to read and grammatically correct, so far as I can tell. Good luck in your continued effort! Dugan Murphy (talk) 00:36, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Dugan Murphy! I think I have some good stuff to develop the article further now. If I have any questions later, I'll just ask them here. Microwavedfork (talk) 06:49, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Sure! Dugan Murphy (talk) 11:51, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Microwavedfork: are you still working on these comments? If you are, I suggest closing this PR and creating a new PR when you are ready for more comments. If you are ready for more comments, please ping Dugan Murphey to let them know that you are ready. Z1720 (talk) 14:44, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Alright, Dugan Murphy, finally went through this. I have a couple questions, but besides that, I went through your suggestions and found them helpful in improving the article. Microwavedfork (talk) 22:17, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Glad to see some improvements! I believe I addressed your questions. Let me know if you have more. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:29, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Hopefully last time, Dugan Murphy, addressed the last few comments. Microwavedfork (talk) 02:59, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Looking good. One more thing, though. "links" in the "External links" header should not be capitalized. Also, I don't know if this is actually a rule, but I believe that section is always after references and before the categories. Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:50, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Do you think the article could make GA by now? Or should I find some themes before I resubmit? Thanks again for the review and the extra comments.Microwavedfork (talk) 07:49, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

One more little thing: the author's name should be Wikilinked only in the first instance in the infobox. I think this is probably ready for GA, but I still wonder if you can eek out a meaningful themes section by drawing from sources commenting on the themes of the overall series and perhaps circumstances of the pandemic being a theme, as the background section suggests. Or themes related to Kinney's own experiences with camping, as the background section suggests. I haven't read through the sources to know. But if there aren't any reliable sources commenting on themes, then maybe you can leave this out and still pass. Good luck! Dugan Murphy (talk) 14:16, 4 December 2021 (UTC)