Wikipedia:Peer review/Bikini Porn/archive1

Bikini Porn[edit]

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This peer review discussion has been closed.

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to nominate it for FA. It has been already reviewed at GOCE but I think another review would be needed.

Thanks, Paparazzzi (talk) 04:47, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47[edit]

The part about the live performance in the lead should also be included in the body of the article. I would also avoid using a citation in the lead. Question: In which section do you suggest to add that information? there's only two reliable sources about Lo performing the song on tour, and they don't add much information about the performance...--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I could see this information possibly fitting in the "Release" section as it is part of the single's promotion. I am just uncertain about having information in the lead that is not represented in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 02:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know if this is a standalone single or something from an album? Comment: it is a standalone single. Neither Lo nor other sources have claimed it is part of an album. --Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification. I had assumed that while reading the article, but you know what they say about assumptions. Since it is already pretty clear in the article, I do not think any adjustments need to be made. Aoba47 (talk) 02:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have a question about this part: on 15 January 2020 on download and streaming services. Is "download services" a thing? I have always seen this kind of information represented as "for download and on streaming services" instead. Done
Would "Passion and Pain Taste the Same When I'm Weak" count as a B-side? I am uncertain as I think the B-side concept is outdated now due to streaming and digital download, but I thought about it after reading the sentence that introduced this song. Comment: so basically the single is titled "Bikini Porn" and it included the title track and that bonus song "Passion...". As far as I know, B-sides only exist in physical singles, and no other source has referred to the song as such, so I have avoided calling it a "B-side". Maybe Tove release a physical edition of the single in the future and "Passion..." could be counted as a b-side.--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I thought while reading through the article, but I just wanted to clarify that. I think b-sides are a thing of the past now that everything has gone digital, and I have only seen albums being released on vinyl. It's interesting how things change over time. Aoba47 (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have two comments for this part: According to Lo, the track's title means "tan lines" and its lyrics talk about "letting go of your worries". I would avoid saying that lyrics talk as it is too much of a anthropomorphism. I am also uncertain of the verb "means" as I read that word as fitting better in the context of language translation. Maybe something like "refers to" would be a better fit. Done, the sentence ended up like this: "According to Lo, the track's title refers to "tan lines" and its lyrics are about "letting go of your worries"."--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would cut out "a minor commercial success" and just let the chart positions speak for themselves. Unless a source uses that exact wording, I think this leaves too much for room for interpretation. For instance, I could imagine some people would look at these chart placements and say that this single was a failure. Done. --Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would avoid using passive tense in this sentence: An accompanying music video for "Bikini Porn" was directed by Moni Haworth, filmed in Hesperia and Victorville, California, and was released on 17 January 2020. Maybe something like the following: Moni Haworth directed the accompanying music video for "Bikini Porn" in Hesperia and Victorville, California, and it was released on 17 January 2020. There still passive tense at the end, but I think that is unavoidable and not as bad since the rest of the sentence uses active tense instead. Done
I would work with the sentence structure of this sentence: It was edited in a lo-fi and VHS style, and depicts the singer wearing different bikinis while dancing in several locations. I think something like the following would make the sentence a little more engaging to a reader: Edited in a lo-fi and VHS style, it depicts the singer wearing different bikinis while dancing in several locations. Done --Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would avoid using "the singer" as a replacement for Lo or she. I agree with Wikipedia:The problem with elegant variation, although it is an essay so there is room for different approaches. This is just my personal preference so feel free to keep it. Just wanted to raise it to your attention. Done--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The caption for the Finneas image should not have a period since it is not a complete sentence. Done
I find this sentence to be rather awkwardly constructed: According to Tove Lo, she wrote "Bikini Porn" while drinking champagne during a recording session, feeling she was "in a happy place". I do not really see the need for the "According to Tove Lo" part. Why not just say it directly instead with something like: Tove Lo wrote "Bikini Porn" while drinking champagne during a recording session, feeling she was "in a happy place".? Done--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any more information about the team's lukewarm response to the song? Like any examples of what they disliked? Comment: sadly no, Lo only said in an interview her team simply didn't liked and that she was surprised Finneas did. ("They were like, 'It's cool, but we don't really feel it... I think you're kind of imagining that it's something,'" Tove Lo recalled about sharing "Bikini Porn" with her team in its early days. Despite the lukewarm feedback, she kept rooting for it and asked Finneas for his opinion." --Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification. If there is not any more information, then there's nothing that can be done. I guess it would be weird for either Lo and her team to openly talk about issues with a song that is being actively promoted as a single lol. Aoba47 (talk) 02:38, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would paraphrase the "awesome" quote in this sentence: Finneas accepted Lo's request and found the song "awesome". I have always been told to only include quotes when they help the reader get a better understanding of something, and the "awesome" quote is too vague to really do anything for the reader in my opinion. I have the same feeling about the "awesome" quote in this later sentence: In a June 2019 interview with Billboard, Lo stated she had written songs with Finneas, describing the session as "awesome" and praising his ability as a producer and writer. Done --Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are several instances where the citations awkwardly cut apart the sentence. For instance, the first sentence of the "Composition" has three citation scatter throughout. I think this hurts readability. Why not just put the citations at the end of the sentence instead? Done--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would add the years that "Bad Guy", Body Talk, and When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? were released. Done--Paparazzzi (talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The word "ballad" is mentioned in the "Background" section so the link should be moved up there rather than being in the "Composition" section. Done
NME and Nylon should be linked in the "Composition" section as these are the first times that the publications are discussed in the article. Done
The phrase "in the lyrics" is used twice in these two sentence: (Stephen Daw said Lo "laments on a dark period in her relationship" in the lyrics, as exemplified in the verse, "If you break my bones, I'mma hurt my soul, gonna fuck it out again and again".) and (Rose Riddell of Coup de Main Magazine said Lo was "reflecting on a dark time in a relationship" in the lyrics of the track). I do not think it is needed in the first sentence, and I think it would read a little better if it was "the song's lyrics" in the second sentence. Done
I would add more variety to the sentence structures in the second paragraph of the "Composition" section. Currently, a lot of the sentences go like this: X critic says Y opinion. I would see if there was a way to make the sentences flow more smoothly together as that would help to engage the reader in the subject matter. Done (I think)
Several sentences in the first paragraph of the "Release" section start with dates. While I do think it is important to specify the dates in the prose to clarify the timeline to the reader, it does come across as rather stilted or repetitive to me. I would look over those parts again. Done
I have a question about the second paragraph of the "Release" section. Do either Stephen Daw, Rose Riddell, or Patrick Clarke go more in depth on how these songs sound different or represent different sides of Lo as an artist? I am curious because these sentences more or less seem to be repeating the same information without really adding anything. Done
I do not think "while" makes sense in this sentence: Stephen Daw of Billboard described them as "almost polar opposites of one another", while Rose Riddell of Coup de Main Magazine wrote both songs "juxtapose each other emotionally and musically". Both critics are saying similar things, and "while" is used to mark a juxtaposition. Done, removed
I would vary the sentence structure of the first paragraph of the "Reception" section to make the information more engaging to the reader. Right now, it reads more like a list of critics and their opinions rather than a cohesive narrative about the song's critical reception. Done
The "while" word choice does not really make sense in this context, while Patrick Clarke of NME called it "joyous"., as there is not a juxtaposition being made. Done
I was a little thrown by the third paragraph of the "Reception" section. On one hand, I can understand why the reception of the other song is included, but on the other, this article is about 'Bikini Porn" so including reviews about a completely different song does muddy the waters. I've never worked on an article like this so this may be a question for editors more experienced with music articles. Comment: Hi. My intention with the article was to write it about the single itself, so that's why I included the reception about the bonus song. I don't know if I should clarify that in the beginning of the lead or make the article exclusively about the title song. Paparazzzi (talk) 03:27, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is a good point. I think it would be helpful to clarify this point in the lead so it sets up the reader for the later part. Aoba47 (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am a little confused by this part, Without prior announcement, while reading through the article. Lo did use the song's title in a hashtag for two posts (the one with the song lyrics and the other with the swimsuit picture) so there was some promotion leading into it. It's not a lot, but it not absolutely nothing like the part I quoted above makes it out to be. Done removed
Since there is an entire paragraph on the reception to the music video, I would add a sentence about it to the lead. Done--Paparazzzi (talk) 03:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hope that my comments are helpful. These are things that I noticed while reading through the article for the first time. For some reason, I've not stayed up-to-date with Tove Lo's music. I absolutely adore "Habits (Stay High)", and I think Queen of the Clouds is just a perfect album, but you've inspired me to get back into her music. Good luck with this in the FAC space. It would be cool to have a 2020 song get promoted to that level. Inspires to also work on some more modern releases as well. Anyway, again, I hope this is helpful and have a great rest of your day and/or night. Aoba47 (talk) 23:11, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Hello! Thank you so much for reviewing the article, it means a lot! I'm sorry for the delay, but I have been a little bit busy. I just wanted to tell you that I have rewritten the Reception section and I removed the last paragraph of that same section, since it would be confusing for other readers. Again, thank you a lot for this! Regards, --Paparazzzi (talk) 06:40, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]