Wikipedia:Peer review/Beccariophoenix alfredii/archive1

Beccariophoenix alfredii

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I created the article and really want to improve on it's potential as much as possible. I want to make sure everything is sourced as best as possible and the article is fluent in language. Let me know what can be improved and I will try and fix it. It would be really cool to see it go as far as featured article, but even getting it removed from the "start class" would be nice. Let me know how this article can be made better!

Thanks, Zeeth (talk) 14:26, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

• One thing that jumps out at me is the need for better sources. Forums usually aren't considered reliable sources, and I'm not sure why JungleMusic.net should be considered reliable.
• I normally include sections of "taxonomy" and "ecology" if I can find anything useful; two palm species articles have have gotten to Good Article status might be helpful - Roystonea regia and Zombia. I also just nominated a palm genus as a Featured Article candidate - Aiphanes.
• Since you use conservation status in the taxobox, that needs a reference.
• You don't need to add Beccariophoenix and Arecaceae to the "See Also", since they're linked in the taxobox; you could add a link to Beccariophoenix madagascariensis though. Guettarda (talk) 14:49, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I will try and fix all these problems. The only reason that forums are cited so much is that this species is so new that the people from the forum growing it and trying it out is one of the only ways that it's requirements is known. I'll try and find some more non-forum sources though. Thanks for your help, I'll try and get everything better by the end of the day. Zeeth (talk) 19:01, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I've added taxonomy, but I couldn't find enough about ecology to add a separate section. I added another non forum source, and referenced more into the original journal source, which actually contains most of the information within the article. The Jungle music source is only used once, and just references trunk thickness, as I thought Jungle music would be a more reliable source than adding another forum source. I could only find Beccariophoenix madagascariensis in the IUCN list, as I think alfredii has yet to be evaluated due to it's recent discovery, so I removed the conservation status for now. I removed the requested articles from the "see also" and added the requested article. Anything else that is needed? Zeeth (talk) 20:38, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

• Some comments:
  1. The image is copyrighted and higher resolution than the originals in the pdf description of the species. I suspect this and another you uploaded on Commons come from the describing author, but we have no documentation of that (see WP:OTRS for instructions - and contrary to what you say here, permission must come from the copyright holder, not palmpedia, which only has a copyright notice on its website anyway).
  2. The forum references are unreliable sources, see WP:RS for guidelines on this. I've used a forum post or two in the past, but they are only accepted if and only if the post is by a known expert in the field, e.g. the describing author or a palm expert posts a description on a forum.
  3. Is the entire cultivation section sourced to the one forum reference? Unfortunately, if it's not a reliable source, then we can't include the information. Wikipedia is also not the place to publish original research.
  4. What's this about Beccariophoenix sp. windows? Is this an undescribed species or a cultivar? I couldn't figure that out.
• Cheers, Rkitko ^(talk) 03:17, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Alright,

• I've tried to get in contact with the author with no response, but I will continue trying and see if he can either upload a picture himself, or give me permission. How can that permission be properly documented so that the file doesn't violate copyright? Until then I will upload a picture of one in cultivation that I took in South Florida, but it won't be as nice a picture.
• I'll try and find some better sources for the sections which have forum references.
• Some of this section comes from the journal, some from the forums. The part that comes from the forums comes indirectly from Jeff Marcus, who is currently one of the resident experts on this genus. How would be best to cite him? I will try and email him to see what we can work out for a source, but It would be nice to know in which direction we should go.
• Beccariophoenix sp. windows is a species which has yet to be given an official name. John Dransfield is going to be naming it soon, and it is believed he is going to call it Beccariophoenix fenestralis, but nothing is official yet.

I'll try and fix as many errors as possible, and get in contact with people to get the picture allowed for use. I have emailed Alfred Razafindratsira from Madagascar, but he has not returned my email, so I will send him another, and also Mr. Rakotoarinivo. Zeeth (talk) 12:31, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

• The Madagascar catalogue lists two species of Beccariophoenix: B. alfredii and B. madagascariensis. So Beccariophoenix sp. windows is apparently too new for that. Unless a name has been published, we should keep calling it Beccariophoenix sp. windows (or some such name), rather than using a name which looks like a scientific name but which isn't published. As for asking for permission for photos, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission - failing to ask in just the right way can make the permission not usable. Information on cultivation is usually harder to source than botanical information (especially if the species hasn't made it into the gardening books and extension service pamphlets and such), but keep looking around. Do be willing to leave out some material, though. It isn't wikipedia's goal to try to collect and summarize unpublished information on how to grow something (see WP:NOT), which is good news in the sense that it makes writing the article easier (although if you want to also write a companion article along those lines, there probably is some place for it - wikiversity or whatever it is). Kingdon (talk) 13:20, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that info on requesting copyright permission. Since most cultivation info on this palm is either contained in forums or websites selling the palm, I removed the cultivation section until I can find a book that has the info published. It looks much more plain now, but I guess the info is more reliable now. I have emailed about 6 different people who would be able to either get me the email of the person who can grant the permission, or who can give me a picture that would be suitable until that permission is given. I have about 4 of these palms in pots in my yard, but are way too small to be put in the article. I also have seed that I can also use a picture of in the article, but I'll wait until I can get a better plant picture to put in before I put the seed picture in. Zeeth (talk) 14:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)