Wikipedia:Peer review/2015 Vuelta a España/archive1

2015 Vuelta a España[edit]

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I've listed this article for peer review because I could use some help improving it towards featured standard. It has been through a GA review, which was helpful, but the reviewer (like me!) is a cycling fan. So it would be very useful to get some other perspectives to make sure it makes sense if you don't closely follow the sport. All advice and thoughts are very welcome – I'm generally quite quick to reply.

Thanks in advance, Relentlessly (talk) 11:46, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Freikorp

Perhaps wikilink "red jersey" in the lead. I guessed it was something the leader wore, but as I am not familiar with cycling I wasn't sure.
Can you give some indication in the article of why Alberto Contador was an absentee?
"A large crash in the final 30 kilometres (19 mi) brought down a large number of riders", can you specify how many riders, or give an approximation? As well as being interesting/helpful, I don't think having the word 'large' twice reads well.
"The eleventh stage, the first after the rest day, took the riders across a difficult route in Andorra." Perhaps give at least some minor indication of what was difficult about it.

That's all I found, great job on the article! I'm sure this will do well at FAC. Freikorp (talk) 11:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, Freikorp; I'm grateful for your comments. I've dealt with the first three. I'm not quite sure how to deal with the last, however: the difficulty is explained in "Route" further up the page. I've reworded it: does this make sense now? Relentlessly (talk) 22:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good, well done :) Freikorp (talk) 22:47, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from BaldBoris

Caption for the map.
Alternative text for all images.
The race isn't defined by three separate weeks so I don't see the need for the headings in the overview.
The notes section needs references.
A complete final GC table as with the 1987 and 1988 Giro.
Some of the jersey icons have links and some with just alt text.
The classification tables need captions and the sources need to use the cite web template.
The citation style is inconsistent, with some of the works link and missing publishers.
The roadbook in the sources isn't used and needs to go.

These are just some things that jump out and will certainly pointed out in an FAC and some that are missing from the other FA cycling race articles (2009 Giro d'Italia, 1987 Giro d'Italia and 1988 Giro d'Italia). Bald Boris 14:02, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks as ever, BaldBoris. I'll get on with this. A couple of questions while I do, however:

I don't know if there are any sources available for the notes section and, to be honest, it's boring and pretty irrelevant. My instinct is to cut it altogether: what do you think?

This can be used for he first, and so on. Yea it's an eyesore, but wait until the FAC or bring it up at WikiProject Cycling. Bald Boris 14:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I realise the race isn't defined by those weeks, but they seemed a sensible way of breaking up a huge chunk of prose. Do you think they're harmful? I realise they aren't strictly needed...
Do we need a full GC listing when we have one at list of teams and cyclists in the 2015 Vuelta a España?

How would the reader know the full GC is available by sorting the list in the separate teams article? Bald Boris 14:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I will also ask you to check my alt texts when I've written them, however, as I find the documentation hard to understand. Thanks again. Relentlessly (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BaldBoris I have added the caption for the map, alt texts, and the references to the notes. I have fixed the jersey icons, the classification tables and the citations. I have removed the roadbook. I will add the full GC shortly. Could I have your opinion on the changes I've done? Relentlessly (talk) 16:28, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, MOS:DONTHIDE seems to rule out the collapsible table. I realise it has precedent, but I can't see how it conforms with the MOS. Relentlessly (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Considering it was done in two recent FAs, I think it's OK. Your fixes look good to me. Another thing, the map text could made larger, enough to read without clicking.Bald Boris 20:38, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to do it, but I can't make it work with proper table syntax (the 1980s articles mis-use header cells as table captions). I have increased the font size in the image, but it still isn't huge. There are too many stages in Andalusia to increase the font size any more! Relentlessly (talk) 22:23, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The positives of having it hugely outweigh one tiny negative that wasn't one for the top WP editors at FAC. Bald Boris 22:37, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with adding it if it's normal, and will discuss it further if it's raised at FAC. For the moment, however, I can't make it work. Relentlessly (talk) 22:44, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BaldBoris With regard to the table header, I do now see that the th format is allowed specifically for collapsible tables (MOS:DTT § Caption): many thanks for your help with that. (Will I ever understand all the MOS loopholes? I doubt it.) I've allowed a greater width, however, as the table seemed a bit squashed.

However, I don't quite understand this edit. The row headers were there to match the table format at list of teams and cyclists in the 2015 Vuelta a España. Relentlessly (talk) 07:29, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]