Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/2018 in cue sports/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 30 August 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

2018 in cue sports[edit]

2018 in cue sports (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:28, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe the article now meets the FL criteria. After recently promoting 2019 in cue sports, I have used this experience to craft the year prior. Let me know what thoughts you have on the list :) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:28, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ~ HAL333 04:43, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • The sentence in the lede image's caption needs a period.
  • The lede seems a little short
  • Is there a reason why Moscow and London aren't linked in the first table?
    • I usually don't link major geographical locations - per WP:GEOLAND... But I haven't been consistent here. I can do it either way. For now, I've linked the ones that aren't linked. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting and refs look good. ~ HAL333 02:10, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Sorry for the lag. ~ HAL333 04:43, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude
;Drive-by comment
Good eye, changed! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:23, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
More comments
  • Don't think the hatnote is needed, nobody is going to land here while looking for an article on 2018 in all sports
  • "(u21) refers to competitions for under-21 competitions" - presume the last word should be "competitors"
  • Shouldn't the headings "World ranking event" and "Non-ranking event" actually be plural?
    • thinking about it - "event" is superfluous as this is a list of events. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:31, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the amateur snooker section you suddenly start using (w) for women, rather than (f)
  • You also have (s), which isn't explained but presumably stands for seniors.....?
  • Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support from BennyOnTheLoose
Resolved comments from BennyOnTheLoose
The article looks really good, I have a few points for consideration. Possibly more later. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm happy to support this being an FL. Everything is supported with appropriate citations, and I think it is a comprehensive list of events. If there was a way to incorporate some more pictures without spoiling the overall look of the page that would be great, but I don't think lack of more images should be a blocker to FL for this article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • IBSF World Billiards Championship (two events) could probably be added. (I think I forgot about this tournament for the 2019 article.)
  • The result for the women's IBSF World Under-21 Snooker Championship is here
    • I thought I had already! Cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • The link here is for the IBSF World Under-21 Snooker Championship, not for the World Women's Snooker event. Both won by the same player! I think I've sorted this. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's mentioned that it was Williams' third world title, but not that it was Ng On-yee's. Is this because of the tournaments' relative notability?
  • I do think it's worth mentioning that it was Emma Bonney's 13th world billiards championship win.[1]
  • Possible inclusions, but I'm not too sure about these being notable enough:
  1. ^ Sports Desk (6 December 2018). "Emma Bonney shows her class again to seal 13th World Ladies' Billiards Championships title". The News (Portsmouth). Archived from the original on 6 December 2018. Retrieved 16 August 2019.

Comments from TRM[edit]

WikiCup review etc.

  • "The year of 2018 included professional tournaments surrounding table-top cue sports" a curious start, the tournaments didn't really "surround" the sports, they were tournaments in which those sports were competed in. And you have "table-top" here to distinguish these cue sports from "non-table-top" cue sports? What are those?
  • "pool disciplines" perhaps "numerous" in front of pool.
  • "notable amateur cue sports " using which inclusion criteria?
    • I've denoted this as "international". We include things like European championships, but not the English championship, so this seems like a suitable distinction. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lead feels a little short. You could cover a few other things, like Gilchrist pretty much sweeping billiards, etc.
    • I have expanded this somewhat. Not really sure what is supposed to go here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:45, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Caption needs an en-dash in the scoreline.
  • "Ng On-yee " our article doesn't use a capital Y.
  • Not seeing any row scopes in the tables.
    • Which row would be suitable for the scope? The event name or the date? They both look weird to me. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "European Pool Championships" ->"European Pool Championship".
  • "(m) refers to men, (f) to women" why not (w) for women??
    • Not on this list - but it's quite often to have "wheelchair" pool, which I would use w. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:17, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks like AZBilliards needs registration for access so those URLs need the appropriate url-access parameter.
  • "Wang Xiaotong 5-0" en-dash in scoreline.
  • A lot of tours are piped to redirects, what's the point of that?
  • "In events where there was more than one" are we to assume when there wasn't more than one event that it was always men then?
    • events are generally open to both genders, which is why I haven't denoted such. There's usually a women's event if the regular events isn't mixed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • A shame there are no images outside the lead. I wonder if you could add an image for each section?
    • The issue is the lack of images for people I'd like to show. For instance, for pool, the obvious targets are Joshua Filler, Han Yu and even Skyler Woodward as MVP of the Mosconi Cup. They don't have images. I could add one for Neils Feijen though I suppose. Would this not stretch the tables though? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You link Singapore but not Gibraltar, why?
  • What's the theory behind whether someone should have a red link or not be linked at all? For instance, Therese Klompenhouwer won a world title, but doesn't even have a red link?
    • I've gone ahead and linked everyone. 11:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Ref 20 doesn't seem to contain any of the information it's supposed to be referencing. I'll do a closer inspection of refs later, but that was just a spot check.
  • Izmir is İzmir.
  • Ref 22 looks like lazy referencing as well. The tournament results do appear to be uniquely referenceable (PDFs for each) so that's what should be linked here, not a generic search engine landing page.
  • Semih Saygıner , not Semih Sayginer.
  • "2017-18 snooker season and 2018-19 snooker season" en-dashes.
  • I'm not seeing where most of the dates for these events are referenced? Don't forget, we can't rely on the target articles for the tournaments for that kind of information.
  • " Page 3-2" en-dash.
  • "Irish Seniors Masters" the tournament appears to be called "Seniors Irish Masters"
  • Ref 69 has no results.
  • Similar to the linking of players, what makes IBSF World Under-18 Championship notable enough for a red link but World Snooker Team Cup not?
    • Added - I've linked everything, and taken the liberty to do some links to the ill versions of the ones that exist on dewiki. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:59, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs, I'll take a closer look on a second pass as I noted, but quickly, BBC Sport refs, one seems to include BBC as a publisher, and one seems to link BBC Sport, but not the first one.

Plenty of work to do. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:00, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think I've got the majority of the above. Let me know if the date refs are too much. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from The Squirrel Conspiracy[edit]

Resolved comments from The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk)
;Comments from The Squirrel Conspiracy

Note: This is a QPQ review. I'm reviewing this and Lee Vilenski is reviewing List of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments.

  • The threshold of inclusion you gave is "The events in this list are professional, pro-am, or international notable amateur cue sports tournaments from the year of 2018." However, the article might benefit from some prose about governing bodies or world rankings or some other way to make it clear why these are the notable events, (and implicitly these are the all of the notable events), especially when it comes to the amateur events. I don't know enough about the subject matter to be able to make any more specific recommendation that that.
    • I've added a small catchall for this. Realistically it is a little difficult to say "these events are all the only notable ones", but I've explained why the amateur tournaments (specifically in snooker) are here, they are sort of qualification events for the main tour, and as such get a lot of press. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:41, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The opening two sentences are kind of awkward/mushy. Consider finding a way to combine them and make it a bit punchier. Something like, "In 2018, championships were held across three continents to determine the best players in major cue sports, including snooker, pool, and billiards."
  • Since every table has the same five columns, consider using ! scope="col" style="width: nn%;" to unify the widths across the tables (i.e. make the Tournaments column the same width in every table).
  • The references for the dates in sections like Pool and Union Mondiale de Billard competitions should be moved out of the dates column and into the references column.
  • The references for the tournaments in the Three-Cushion World Cup section should be moved out of the tournaments column and into the references column.
  • I echo a comment from an above reviewer that it'd be nice if there were more images. Jasmin Ouschan, Peter Gilchrist (billiards player), Pankaj Advani (billiards player), Choi Sung-won (billiards player), Dick Jaspers, Eddy Merckx (billiards player), Frédéric Caudron, and others all are have images. You could probably find one winner in each subsection to add a picture of.
    • Sure. I'm happy to add images, but I don't know how to do so, and not destroy the table formatting, or have lots of blank space. Usually I use images next to prose so this doesn't happen. I have added one image to show you what I mean, if you can suggest a better way of doing this, let me know and I'll add more. If not, I'll remove the one I've put in. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:50, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not necessarily saying it should change, but is there a reason you used the format "Russia (Moscow)" instead of "Moscow, Russia"? Is it just so that the table is sorted by country?
    • It's more to do with retaining how it was done on X in sports articles. I personally think the country is more important than the exact location. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:41, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Three-Cushion World Cup section uses the name of the city only. If you're going to use the "Russia (Moscow)" format everywhere else, it should be applied to this section as well.
  • Consider changing: "some matches and tournaments are held as doubles, or team events" --> "some matches and tournaments are held as doubles or as team events"

Please ping me when you've responded. Cheers, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi The Squirrel Conspiracy - I've replied to the above. Let me know what you think of the image issues I've mentioned. More than happy to add, but I think they make the whole thing look bad. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:50, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: The prose and tables look much better now. As for the pictures, if you add an image next to every table, and lock them to be the same width, all of the tables will also stay the same width, relative to each other (which is what I did in the Smash lists). However, you've got a lot of small tables and that could wind up messy. Maybe just add an image to the top of Billiards and one to the top of Snooker then, and call it a day? If you need help cropping vertical images into horizontal ones so that they don't take up as much room, I'd be happy to do so. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 15:34, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Squirrel Conspiracy - I have added such images. As I was afraid, they do look a bit ridiculous. Any ideas? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:56, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're right. I can't figure out a way to do it that works with all those tiny tables. What do you think of this edit? The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 16:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Squirrel Conspiracy - I really like that! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:19, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since all the prose and formatting issues have been resolved and we've done the best we can do on images within Wikipedia's limitations, I am happy to support. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 16:22, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from MWright96 (talk) 17:22, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from MWright96
  • "some matches and tournaments are held as doubles or as team events." - as either doubles or team events.
  • "with Mark Williams winning the World Snooker Championship, Joshua Filler winning the WPA World Nine-ball Championship, Sourav Kothari winning the World Billiards Championship and Dick Jaspers winning the UMB World Three-cushion Championship." - try to reduce the amount of uses of the word "winning" in the same sentence
  • "with Han Yu winning the WPA Women's World Nine-ball Championship, Emma Bonney winning the World Billiards Championship and Ng On-yee winning the World Women's Snooker Championship." - same issue as above
  • "The cue sport pool encapsulates several disciplines, such as straight pool, eight-ball and nine-ball." - think this sentence requries a reliable source to verify it
  • The hyphens in the tournament column in the "Three-Cushion World Cup" table should be replaced by en dashes (–) per MOS:DASH
    • Done. I ran this script about 10 times, and it didn't pick it up... Now? Picks it up fine! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Challenge Tour "Tournament" column: Budapest is in Hungary not China
    • You've never heard of the two famous cities Budap and Est in China? No, me neither :/ Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Refs 4, 5, 11, 13, 34, 54, 55, 56, 85, 103, 104, 108, 112, 115, 139 are missing the dates they were published
    • I've now gone through all of these. 16:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Ref 112 title name: "Jersey's Canavan wins snooker World Senior Championship

Support – No further queries from this editor. MWright96 (talk) 17:22, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Pass[edit]

It looks like TRM has essentially done the source review, so there will probably be little left to say here.

  • The biggest thing I found is that it's sometimes "worldsnooker.com" and sometimes "World Snooker" for what are from seemingly the same website. I don't really have a preference for which one should be used as long as it's consistent.
  • Besides that everything seems reliably sourced and formatted. Fix the first point and you'll be good. Aza24 (talk) 22:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias[edit]

Resolved comments from Harrias talk 17:06, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
* In light of the recent RFC on table captions (closed back in May) and how FLCs have to follow MOS:ACCESS, table captions should be included in both tables. This quote by PresN might apply to this list: "In the case that the table is the first thing in a section where the section header is essentially the same as what the caption would be, and therefore looks duplicative visually, you can make the caption screen reader-only with the {{sronly}} template, e.g. "|+ {{sronly|Example table caption}}" instead of "
    • I'll look into this. I think I'll need to get my head around what you are asking for. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hi Harrias - not sure I know if this is right, I did this edit, is this what you are looking for? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:18, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yup, that is spot on, just needs applying to all of the tables. Harrias talk 13:30, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • This still needs adding to a couple of the tables. Harrias talk 07:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • Is this not just for tables without any text between them and the header (per the quote?) I have done that Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:43, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              • All tables need it, PresN's quote just relates to those where you might want the caption hidden. Harrias talk 16:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                  • Oh, apologies. I've added to the remaining tables (not familiar with this, but I'll commit to memory!) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:57, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The table also needs row headers to meet the requirements of MOS:ACCESS, as set out in MOS:DTT.
    • Does this just mean making the dates column a scope="row"? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • The tournament is probably the better field. Essentially, imagine you saw the field "Niels Feijen defeated Shane Van Boening, 8–4": the column header tells us it is the "Result", but we want to know what it is the result of. That is the job of the row header. Using "March 2–4" as the header would be pretty meaningless. For the coding to work best, it should go on a line of its own in the code, so something like:
|-
| {{dts|March 2}}–4 
! scope="row" | [[2018 World Pool Masters|World Pool Masters]]
| Gibraltar || [[Niels Feijen]] defeated [[Shane Van Boening]], 8–4
  • If you're still unsure, let me know, and I can do one of the tables for you. Harrias talk 13:30, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is fine, and meets the requirements. You could consider replacing class="sortable wikitable" with class="sortable wikitable plainrowheaders" for a subtler look, but either way it now meets the FL criteria. Harrias talk 07:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "Location" column in each table also needs to be marked as the column header.
  • In the result column be consisted about whether to include a comma before the score. (FWIW, I prefer it with the comma.)
  • Delink common geographical locations; Melbourne, Sydney, Cairo, Seoul, Berlin, Cardiff, Glasgow, London, Vienna are the most obvious.
  • No scores for the Union Mondiale de Billard competitions?
    • I've added these. One is a bit of a misnomer, as they drew 40-40, but won through other means, I've done my best with this. (I'm not a billiards expert). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:27, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the Australian Women's Open listed as "New South Wales", rather than a specific city? Did it take place in a variety of locations?
  • Nine-ball is overlinked.
  • The Oceania Billiards & Snooker Championships is listed as taking place at New Zealand (Tauranga), but the sources say Mounties, Mt Pritchard, NSW.
  • What is sourcing the location of the Paul Hunter Classic?
    • Source says: "The main rounds of the Paul Hunter Classic in Furth take place over just three days."
  • What is sourcing the location and dates of the Scottish Open? I haven't checked too many more, but if these two are missing sources for some of the information provided, I assume there will be more; it would be worth checking them invididually.

That's it from me on a first pass; I haven't looked at the lead at all, only the table. I will probably claim WikiCup points for this review. Harrias talk 07:41, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: I'm off on holiday in a couple of days: I'm not aiming to rush you, but there's only a couple of outstanding comments above, and then I can wrap this up before I go away. Harrias talk 15:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 20:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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