Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tyler Skaggs/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 13 October 2021 [1].

Tyler Skaggs[edit]

Nominator(s): — GhostRiver 13:45, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about an American baseball player who tragically died two years ago from fentanyl poisoning. This article underwent the good article process back in March. After that, I did a large-scale expansion in order to reach the "comprehensive" criterion, and I tightened the prose in several places as well based on how my writing skills improved between the GA process and preparation for FAC. Once this expansion was complete, this article underwent a thorough copyedit from a member of the GOCE, and I performed several other small tweaks, mostly to the references. All feedback is appreciated, and I hope that this is an enjoyable reading experience about a man's too-short life. — GhostRiver 13:45, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:40, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Famous Hobo[edit]

Two initial comments:

1) Some more information has come out about the investigation of Eric Kay, here's one of the sources I found. I'm not sure how much information will directly relate to Skaggs, but I think it's important to comb over anyway.

Famous Hobo I've looked over some of the recent information relating to the investigation. Most of it appears to be tangential and is primarily related to Kay, but I added some information about how MLB instituted a new opioid policy, and how the DEA later determined that fentanyl was the primary driver of Skaggs' death. — GhostRiver 12:56, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2) This is more of an aesthetic choice, but I'm not a big fan of the lede image. It doesn't show Skaggs' face. I think either [File:Tyler Skaggs (28995932598) (cropped).jpg this] or this would be better.

I have changed the lede image to one of the two that you suggested. I do like the other one, especially because it gives a good glimpse of his jersey number, so I moved it to the appropriate section. — GhostRiver 22:38, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll look over this article a bit more in depth in a day or so. Famous Hobo (talk) 02:30, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Famous Hobo, did you still want to add something? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:43, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Ian Rose, I don't want to overstep or feel like I'm pushing this FAC through, but it appears that Famous Hobo has only made a handful of sporadic edits in the past month (I count 13 since August 25, with a few gaps). — GhostRiver 22:48, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No that's fine GR, we like to courtesy ping people but we don't leave things open indefinitely. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:14, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by ChrisTheDude - Support[edit]

  • "but was optioned to the minor leagues in 2013" - what does "optioned" mean in this context? Is there an appropriate link?
    • Added a WL
  • "As a junior in 2008" - what does "a junior" mean in this context? I am guessing it isn't just a synonym for child......
    • Reworded and added the appropriate WL
  • "During his senior season" - what's a "senior season"?
    • Reworded and added the appropriate WL
  • "a scoreless sixth inning of relief" - what's an "inning of relief"?
    • Reworded
  • "and went 8–4" - what does that mean?
    • Clarified
  • "where anchored the team's starting rotation" => "where he anchored the team's starting rotation"
    • Fixed
  • There's a random gap between the refs after "where he pitched eight strikeouts"
    • Fixed
  • "with a 4.34 ERA n his first 12 starts" - the random n should presumably be "in"
    • Fixed
  • "Skaggs was a late scratch" - what does this mean? Sounds painful.......
    • Reworded/clarified
  • "Skaggs continued to suffer from physical pain he managed" => "Skaggs continued to suffer from physical pain which he managed"
    • Fixed
  • "while declaring his changeup "at least an average pitch" that sits between" => "while declaring his changeup "at least an average pitch" that sat between"
    • Fixed
  • That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:53, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Cas Liber[edit]

Looking now....

  • A native of Woodland Hills, California, and a graduate of Santa Monica High School, the Angels selected Skaggs in the first round of the 2009 Major League Baseball draft. - so the subject has changed between the clauses of this sentence, tweak to "A native of Woodland Hills, California, and a graduate of Santa Monica High School, Skaggs was selected by the Angels in the first round of the 2009 Major League Baseball draft."
    • Done
  • Although he was a standout in the Angels' rotation between 2017 and 2019... - I'd say "standout" was a little too casual...."figured prominently" or somesuch
    • Done
  • link hamstring
    • Done
  • Avoid 1-2 sentence paragraphs where possible
    • Done

Looks good on comprehensiveness and prose otherwise Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:10, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Casliber Comments addressed, thank you! — GhostRiver 12:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Sanfranciscogiants17[edit]

I thought this was extremely high quality when I reviewed this as a GA. A few comments, but all minor stuff:

  • ”His favorite sport was basketball, and he referred to himself as "not the greatest dribbler but I can shoot".” – “His favorite sport was basketball, about which he described himself as “not the greatest dribbler” but being able to shoot. - Better grammatically.
  • ” In 2008, his junior year of high school, Skaggs had a 1.11 earned run average (ERA), with 89 strikeouts, 44 hits allowed, and 22 walks in 63+1⁄3 innings pitched, enough to receive Player of the Year honors from the Ocean League.” – “In 2008, his junior year of high school, Skaggs was named the Ocean League’s Player of the Year after posting a 1.11 earned run average (ERA) with 89 strikeouts, 44 hits allowed, and 22 walks in 63+1⁄3 innings pitched.”
  • ”As a senior the following year” – “During Skaggs’s senior year” – The way it’s worded right now, it looks like the sentence is saying the scouts were a senior.
  • ”He played 10 Rookie League” – “He pitched 10 Rookie League”
  • ”started in 17 games” – Don’t need in.
  • ”they named Skaggs” – “the league named Skaggs”
  • Player of the Year is capitalized in the high school section, but pitcher of the year is not for 2011. Seems like both of these should be done the same way, for consistency.
  • ”Futures game, but was selected” – “Futures game but was later selected”
  • ”where he pitched eight strikeouts” – “where he recorded eight strikeouts”
  • ”forearm tightness, and was” – No comma needed.
  • ”After pitching the third out” – “After recording the third out”
  • This is probably from a rearranging of the article, but Andrew Heaney needs to be linked in the personal life section and delinked later on. (Corbin is fine, linked on first mention earlier.)
  • ” Skaggs had planned to represent Mexico at the World Baseball Classic before his death” – The next one he could’ve represented Mexico in would be the 2021 Classic, so I would say “Skaggs had planned to represent Mexico at the 2021 World Baseball Classic.” That way, the sentence doesn’t accidentally imply that he planned his death.

Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 03:00, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sanfranciscogiants17 All comments have been addressed, thank you! — GhostRiver 13:35, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Article looks good now! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 18:48, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass[edit]

Will do soon. Hog Farm Talk 20:30, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • What makes The Samohi a high-quality RS? It's about us page says it's a high school newspaper written (at least largely) by high schoolers. It is a lot glossier than the high school newspaper I briefly wrote for, but I'm not sure it's enough to
  • Zimmerman 2012 (SB Nation) - I'm not sure about this one. I'll give most pieces by the overall parent site reliability (especially when you get writers like Geoff Schwartz or Jon Bois involved), but as a reader of a couple of the team-specific sites, the quality is all over the place. This ref is one of those team-specific sites. I'd say there's probably a better source for him being called up as the extra player for the doubleheader
  • While I personally read Bleacher Report and think it's fine for my sports news purposes, the scattered discussions in the WP:RSN archives don't look on it highly. I'd recommend removal or starting another RSN discussion about the source
  • The link to the publisher in the Sportscasting source is wrong. Not familiar with that one, but it's only used to cite noncontroversial stats information, so that's probably fine


The breadth of sourcing used is what would be expected for the topic.

Spot checks:

  • "At the end of the season, the Diamondbacks named Skaggs their minor league Pitcher of the Year." - checks out
  • "Going into the 2013 season, Baseball America named Skaggs the 10th overall MLB prospect, and the highest-rated prospect in the Diamondbacks organization" - not seeing where that's stated to be Baseball America's ranking; it looks like MLB.com's ranking
  • "He spent nearly a month on the disabled list before being activated on July 2 to start in a game against the White Sox" - checks out
  • " He made his first major league start since undergoing surgery on July 26, 2016, pitching seven shutout innings in a 13–0 defeat of the Kansas City Royals. The only baserunner of the night was Alcides Escobar, who reached base on a walk" - Source says he also gave up three hits. I'm a Royals fan, and I think I vaguely remember this game
  • "Skaggs went 8–10 for the year, with an overall ERA of 4.02" - checks out
  • "That same year, Mike Newman of FanGraphs proclaimed Skaggs' 72–76 miles per hour (116–122 km/h) curveball the best in Minor League Baseball" - Source says 76-77 mph
  • "He pitched 10 Rookie League innings that season, both in the Arizona League and with the Orem Owlz of the Pioneer League. Between the two teams, Skaggs posted a 1.80 ERA as a rookie" - checks out
  • "Skaggs made his professional baseball debut on August 22, 2009, relieving starting pitcher Fabio Martinez with a scoreless sixth inning for the AZL Angels in a 2–1 win against the AZL Athletics" - checks out
  • "On July 25, 2010, Skaggs was one of several players sent to the Arizona Diamondbacks in exchange for three-time All-Star pitcher Dan Haren. In exchange for Haren, the Diamondbacks received pitcher Joe Saunders, prospects Patrick Corbin and Rafael Rodríguez, and a player to be named later, speculated to be Skaggs."
  • "On June 30, 2019, Skaggs texted Eric Kay, the communications director for the Angels, asking for painkillers. That night, Skaggs did not respond to his wife Carli's good-night text, which she typically sent when he was on the road." - checks out
  • "Angels pitchers Taylor Cole and Félix Peña combined to throw a no-hitter against the Seattle Mariners, winning 13–0. It was the first combined no-hitter in California since July 13, 1991, the day of Skaggs' birth. After the game, the players removed their memorial jerseys and laid them on the mound to honor his memory" - checks out
  • "On December 12, 2019, MLB and the players' union agreed to start regularly testing players for both opioids and cocaine, and to assign players and team staff to mandatory educational programs on the dangers of prescription painkillers" - checks out

The 3/12 rate of issues in the spots checks isn't enough for me to oppose on this, but I would recommend that you go through and check your citations to make sure everything matches, as it is high enough to be concerning. Hog Farm Talk 02:46, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hog Farm I have made a number of fixes.

  • I replaced the Samohi source with one from Santa Monica Daily Press and have tweaked the wording accordingly to match the source
  • I have replaced the SB Nation source with an Arizona Sports citation and have altered the wording accordingly; he ended up pitching in the first game of that doubleheader, and that source does not mention explicitly that the Diamondbacks needed another pitcher
  • I have removed the WL on Sportscasting
  • I have changed Baseball America to MLB.com on the one source
  • I have changed the sentence regarding Escobar accordingly
  • I have changed the speed of his curveball; I believe that was an issue with my dyscalculia more than anything else

Regarding Bleacher Report:

  • I have replaced the source for the 2014 starting rotation with one from the Los Angeles Daily News
  • Although I believe that the Baseball America report mentioned in the second BR reference is important, I have no easy means of accessing the original source due to paywalls and difficulty retrieving printed texts, so it has been removed.
  • I have not removed the two references to the article "What Tyler Skaggs Left Behind." If there has ever been an RS on Bleacher Report, it is this one: the author, Mirin Fader, is a career sportswriter who wrote for The Orange County Register, Los Angeles Daily News, Sports Illustrated, and ESPN before joining the staff of Bleacher Report full-time. She now writes for The Ringer and has published a book through a mainstream publisher. Additionally, this is a longform piece that relies almost completely on interviews with Skaggs' widow and mother, not a sabrmetrics-based piece. That it was published on BR likely has to do with the details of her contract with them at the time, not a deficiency in reliability.

Let me know if there is anything else. — GhostRiver 15:43, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll do a couple more spot checks soon, and then this ought to be fine. Hog Farm Talk 16:21, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After MRI tests revealed a strain to the common flexor tendon of Skaggs' arm, the Angels placed the pitcher on the 15-day disabled list" - checks out
  • "The injury kept him out of the lineup for 14 weeks after he suffered a recurrence of oblique pain shortly before a scheduled rehab assignment in July" - checks out
  • " Santa Monica athletic director Norm Lacy once called Skaggs the school's best baseball player since Tim Leary" - checks out
  • "Of Mexican descent on his mother's side, Skaggs had planned to represent Mexico at the 2021 World Baseball Classic" - checks out

No further issues detected in spot-checking, so pass on sourcing. Hog Farm Talk 22:31, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TRM[edit]

  • I have a pathological dislike of single-sentence paras, the lead opens with one, can we merge?
    • I split it into two instead, which should make each sentence simpler to understand
  • "the minor leagues" link?
    • Added.
  • "Skaggs' " -> Skaggs's
    • I don't believe that this is correct, as multiple articles use "Skaggs'", but changed anyway.
  • Multiple instances of that.
    • See above.
  • "best baseball player since Tim Leary" for people like me, the comparison is meaningless, is there any context which could be added to demonstrate why that comparison is impressive?
    • Added that Leary was a World Series champion.
  • Link outfielder.
    • Done.
  • And pitcher, in the main body.
    • Done.
  • "fastball speed, for instance, had dropped to 88 mph" you mentioned previously that his fastball speed had dropped before but I'm not sure I ever saw what it was at peak?
    • Added the highs and lows of the season, as provided in the article.
  • "by Mike Morin. Morin broke" repetitive.
    • Fixed.
  • "shutout innings " is there a link?
    • The article Shutout (baseball) refers to a complete game shutout, so I changed to "scoreless".
  • "seemed less effective" according to whom?
    • Specified.
  • "the passing of" don't use euphemisms.
    • Changed.
  • "inspired MLB" maybe prompted.
    • Changed.
  • Check refs for consistency, e.g. the use of ESPN or ESPN.com etc seems to vary.
    • They should all read "ESPN" now.

That's all I have. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:10, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man comments have all been addressed. — GhostRiver 13:03, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Good stuff, happy to support. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:18, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Sportsfan77777[edit]

I'll review this article. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 15:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • first round <<<=== I think it's worth clarifying "supplemental first round"
    • Done.
  • Ulnar collateral ligament goes to a disambiguation page. Maybe it should go to Ulnar collateral ligament of elbow joint?
    • Done.
  • Also related to that, I would write it with its abbreviation: "ulnar collateral ligament (UCL)" as that injury is better known by the abbreviation than the technical term.
    • Done.
  • Skaggs opted not to pitch until the 2016 season <<<=== I think that's misleading. He missed the 2015 season because he had Tommy John surgery. Needing >14 months to recover and get back to the majors is typical; he didn't really have a choice. He only opted not to try to get back for the very end of the season.
    • Done.

Early life

  • gridiron football <<<=== I think for an American you can just say "football" (and also link to American football rather than gridiron football)
    • Done.

Minors

  • , Randal Grichuk and Mike Trout, ===>>> : Randal Grichuk and Mike Trout; (for consistency with the pitchers part)
    • Done.
  • both in the Arizona League and with the Orem Owlz of the Pioneer League ===>>> playing in both the Arizona League and with the Orem Owlz of the Pioneer League
    • Done.

Dbacks

  • minor league Pitcher of the Year <<<=== "Minor League" should be capitalized (or none of it should be capitalized)
    • Done.
  • after he was called up ===>>> after Bauer was called up
    • Done.
  • on September 28 <<<=== I think it was September 24 (Also, I think it's this link, but I can't get it to work. It's referenced here, and mentioned here)
    • Changed, although I do not know why the references aren't working. SB Nation is not being used for the reasons described in Hog Farm's source review above.
  • and was ultimately optioned ===>>> , but was ultimately optioned
    • Done.

Angels

  • Arizona received Mark Trumbo <<<=== start a new sentence (otherwise, it doesn't have parallelism.)
    • Done.
  • developing the other pitches in his rotation <<<=== "rotation" isn't correct, "repertoire" or "arsenal" would work.
    • Done.
  • mechanical tweak to his pitching method ===>>> tweak to his pitching mechanics
    • Done.
  • serving alongside Santiago, Jered Weaver, C. J. Wilson, and Garrett Richards <<<=== What does "serving" mean? (This is just the starting rotation, right? If so, specify that he was named to the starting rotation.)
    • Changed.
  • and that the pitcher had been placed ====>> and was placed
    • Done.
  • who broke Skaggs's no-hit bid ===>>> who lost Skaggs's no-hit bid (Hitters break no-hit bids, not pitchers)
    • Done.
  • pitch in a minor league game ===>>> start his rehabilitation in the minor leagues
    • Done.
  • he had begun ===>>> he was able to begin
    • Done.
  • 13–0 defeat of ===>>> 13–0 win against
    • Done.
  • second and third benching ====>>> second and third instances
    • Done.
  • Skaggs gave up 17 runs in 6+2⁄3 innings <<<=== clarify this is two starts
    • Done.
  • Add a footnote that the disabled list was renamed the injured list.
    • Done.
  • Skaggs dominated the Angels' rotation <<<=== "dominated" isn't the right word.
    • Changed.

Pitching

  • Okay.

Personal life

  • Okay.

Death

  • On July 6, 2019, Andrew Heaney became the first Angels pitcher to start after the death of his fellow left-hander. <<<=== What do you mean by this? The Angels played a few games in-between.
    • First home game. Clarified.
  • His first pitch against George Springer of the Houston Astros was Skaggs's signature overhand slow curveball, and it went unchallenged with no swing. <<<=== Re-word to clarify this was intentional, i.e. that Springer knew about the tribute.
    • Done.

Overall

  • I think the section headers are a bit weird. The first LAA section specifies it's only the minors, but the Dbacks header doesn't indicate most of the section is just the minors or that only the shorter last two paragraphs cover the years in the header. I think it might be clearer to start his career with a minor league sub-section header (or just a regular section header?) and then sub-divide with sub-sub-section headers for the Angels and Dbacks. Then, wrap the Dbacks major league section (those last two paragraphs) and the Angels major league section in a major league sub-section (or section) header.
    • This is the part that gives me pause, because I have never seen a baseball article formatted in such a way and in fact have run into issues during GA reviews about splitting in such a way. I would be far more amenable to keeping the headers the way that they are and adding subheads within the Dbacks section for minor leagues/major, as well as potentially adding additional subheads in the second Angels section for before/during/after the Tommy John injury.

Looks like it's in good shape! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:22, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sportsfan77777 Addressed everything except for my comment above. — GhostRiver 12:47, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just minor things,

For the lead, I was also suggesting to make a mention that he had Tommy John surgery (as that's probably more recognizable than just mentioning the UCL injury). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 19:29, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Added/clarified.
For Heaney, it wasn't a home game. I think it was just Heaney's first start since Skaggs's death. From the source, "Heaney considered Skaggs his best friend." Sportsfan77777 (talk) 19:29, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Clarified/fixed.
For the headers, splitting the Dbacks with minors/majors sub-section headers could work. But then, switch to 2010–13 for the header? Not having the years in the header match up with the years covered still seems strange to me (I can't find another baseball FA that does that). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 19:29, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. For consistency, I also renamed the first part "Los Angeles Angels organization", and then changed the years in "Return to the Angels" and added appropriate subheads. Let me know what you think.

Sportsfan77777 Additional comments addressed. — GhostRiver 19:43, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think these headers are much clearer, supporting! Good work!! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 15:12, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @FAC coordinators: Courtesy ping – this nomination is at five supports, image and source review have been passed, and it's been 7.5 weeks since nomination. Famous Hobo was pinged 2.5 weeks ago, to no response. — GhostRiver 16:00, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:07, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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