Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tropical Storm Zelda (1991)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ealdgyth via FACBot (talk) 30 April 2020 [1].

Tropical Storm Zelda (1991)[edit]

Nominator(s):  Nova Crystallis (Talk) 02:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the last storm of the 1991 Pacific typhoon season. As a severe tropical storm, Zelda did a significant amount of damage to the Marshall Islands, without causing any deaths in the country. This is the first FAC I've ever taken part in, apologies if I did something I wasn't aware of. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 02:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Epicgenius[edit]

I'm going to leave some comments later. Ping me if I don't comment back here in 3 days. epicgenius (talk) 16:25, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just a first comment. Do you need to put "northeastward", etc? epicgenius (talk) 21:02, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More comments

  • Zelda soon weakened into a tropical storm on December 2 - I don't think we need "soon" since this is implied.
  • and it continued to track the storm until it crossed the International Date Line again on December 7. - what's the first "it" and what's the second "it"? This needs to be clarified.
  • Zelda caused significant damage to the Marshall Islands. Operations at Kwajalein Missile Range were disrupted severely. - these two short sentences can probably be combined. "Zelda caused significant damage to the Marshall Islands, and operations at Kwajalein Missile Range were disrupted severely" for instance.
  • No deaths or injuries were reported - can this be placed earlier?
  • President George H. W. Bush - you should clarify that this is the US president.

I will review the rest of the page by tomorrow. epicgenius (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • A tropical cyclone formation alert soon followed from the JTWC - might want to have "from the JTWC" right after "alert".
  • it became a tropical storm at 0000 UTC on November 28 for JTWC - can something "become" a tropical storm for JTWC? I assume this means the JTWC classified this as such.
  • the small size of the storm, poorly organized outflow, and the lack of visible and infrared image pairs for analysis. - the poorly organized outflow
  • at 1200 UTC of November 29 - on November 29?
  • Six hours later, JTWC reported the storm has reached the peak - be mindful of tense, since this is present tense, but the last sentence was past tense. Also, this seems to be a similar wording to the last sentence, which ended with "reached its peak".
  • By December 1, the storm began to weaken and turned northeast. On December 2, JMA reported the storm had weakened to 100 km/h (60 mph).[2] The storm weakened below typhoon strength on 1800 UTC of the same day, with winds of 110 km/h (70 mph).[5] - "weakened" is repeated three times here. I recommend you change at least one of these.
  • The low-level circulation detached from the cold front, and JTWC issued the last warning of the year.[1] - which happened to be for this tropical storm?
  • it stopped tracking just past the International Date Line - the storm or the JTA?
  • Kwajalein Missile Range caught stronger winds than expected from the storm, - "stronger winds than expected" is fine, but this sentence feels like it needs more punctuation or rearrangement.
  • Other islands in the nation had their water contaminated by saltwater - I don't get this. Do you mean freshwater?
  • $98,000 (1992 USD), $1.518 million (1992 USD) - instead of doing this, I guess you can use {{inflation}}.

These are all my comments for now. By the way, I would like to claim points in the WikiCup for this review. epicgenius (talk) 22:24, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: Thanks for the review. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 22:53, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I support this page for promotion now. epicgenius (talk) 23:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by JavaHurricane[edit]

Will post shortly. JavaHurricane 15:04, 13 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@JavaHurricane: Take your time, finish other reviews that you claimed first. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 08:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think I can do it now. JavaHurricane 11:34, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Severe Tropical Storm Zelda was the last storm" - storm --> tropical cyclone and appropriate wikilink.
  • "and caused damage to the Marshall Islands on November 28." - Change to "that caused damage in the Marshall Islands on November 28."
  • In the next line, mention that Zelda formed from that LPA.
  • No requirement to mention that the JTWC named it as Zelda in the lead, that normally goes in the MH.
  • "It reached a peak of 80 kn (150 km/h; 90 mph) according to the JTWC, and 60 kn (110 km/h; 70 mph) according to the Japanese Meteorological Agency (JMA), with a barometric pressure of 975 hectopascals (28.8 inHg)." Use hPa and either knots or kn. Also it is Japan Met, not Japanese.
  • I'm not changing it because of previous reviews below. Shortened the JMA part though. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 15:57, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The tropical storm traveled northwest, then northeast." - No context and can be excised.
  • "while the JMA declared the storm to be extratropical the next day and continued to track the storm, until it crossed the International Date Line again on December 7." - storm occurs twice, change to "[...] and continued to track it until it crossed the IDL"
  • Changed to "track until it".
  • Damage in the Marshall Islands or damage to?
  • Second sentence of second para could open with "However, " to stress the contrast.
  • Bush allowed FEMA to assist in what?
  • Have we already transitioned to using interactive maps? Better use the static ones till the IDL problems are addressed.
  • "A tropical cyclone formation alert from the Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC) soon followed." - Keep it simple: "The JTWC soon issued a TCFA on the system." Also, no need to mention the JTWC's whole name twice as it was mentioned earlier.
  • One reviewer said I should type out JTWC for a second time, and I wouldn't shorten TCFA without mentioning the whole name first. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 15:57, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add the fact that it was the JTWC that upgraded Zelda to a TY.
  • From the note in para 1: "Sustained 10–minute winds are about 1.14 times the amount of 1 minute winds." Isn't it the opposite?
  • "as it turned slightly northwest, something they did not expect" - simply put, "as it unexpectedly turned to the northwest."
  • "On the same day, President of the United States George H. W. Bush, through the Compact of Free Association, declared a major disaster" - What was declared a major disaster? Or is it a disaster area?

That's all from me. JavaHurricane 09:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@JavaHurricane: Thanks for the review. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 15:57, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome! Changed to support. JavaHurricane 16:30, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • Lead and infobox state a 1-minute sustained figure of 150 km/h, but I don't see that number in the text
  • What value is used in the source(s)?
  • For the 1-minute value, 90 mph converted would be 144.828 km/h, so rounded would be at 145 km/h. There has been discussion about this before. Might be easier on my part to hardcode the value in the prose to 150 km/h. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 00:46, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I just realized I did that several years ago for the lede. Might as well change it for the meteorological history. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 00:49, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you explain why, if the sources support a value rounded to 145, we're hardcoding 150? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:24, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Nikkimaria: I had to do a bit of looking it up myself. So I think this is why. The value was converted from the original value (80 knots) to mph and km/h, 92.06 mph and 148.15 km/h respectively. Since all values would be rounded by five, the values would be 90 mph and 150 km/h instead. If the convert 90 mph to km/h, it would show 145 km/h, which is why we're here. This is basically what KN2731 said in the thread above, just more applicable here. Now, do you want to also show the values in knots for the article, or just stick with the hardcoded values? Nova Crystallis (Talk) 02:41, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is the original value in the sources in knots or in mph? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:47, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria:, there is a presedence of not including knots because the vast majority of the population is unaware of what it means. This is simply a way to keep the article simplified and with less "jargon". Every other article does not include knots as a unit of measurement for this reason. NoahTalk 03:45, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I get that, but "simplified" should not mean "wrong" - we need the article to reflect what the sources actually say. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:09, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest the article should first present the unit in knots, per the warning centers, and add a note (like the JMA note) for what the conversions are - 1 knot = 1.15 mph = 1.85 km/h. Most articles don't use knots, because the public rarely uses knots, it's a scientific/nautical term. Also, as for the 1-min value, make sure you're converting it from the original knots. 80 knots = 92 mph = 148 km/h. That's why 90 rounds down to 90, and 148 km/h rounds up to 150. I hope that helps understand the confusion Nikkimaria. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I added the knots onto the conversions, so it shows all three types (knots, km/h, and mph). Nova Crystallis (Talk) 16:33, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Hurricanehink and Nikkimaria: I also linked the knots article, where there is a table of conversions. Anymore concerns? Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:16, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN1 uses the PDF pagination, but the document itself has pagination that is different - suggest either using the document pagination or specifying in the citation that you're using PDF pagination. Also what's led you to select that particular group of authors?
  • Changed the page numbers, and the group of authors were listed under ATCR staff on page ii. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 00:31, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why cite specifically the ATCR staff when the report generally has a much longer list of credits? Is there a section attribution I'm missing? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:34, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The ATCR staff were the editors for the report and created the graphics for it. Everyone else in the JTWC staff were TDOs (Typhoon Duty Officer), TDAs (Typhoon Duty Analyst), or some other type of analysts. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 16:33, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN7: don't see the bulletin mentioned at the given link, where are you getting that from?
  • FN13: source link has authors credited
  • Be consistent in whether you abbreviate state names. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN15 has a different date format
  • Be consistent in whether you include locations for reports. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:08, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5[edit]

  • Severe Tropical Storm Zelda Severe shouldn't be bold.
  • I would disagree because that's the technical full name of the storm from the JMA. If you need an example, Cyclone Chapala passed FAC with its full name bolded. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:04, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not an expert in storms, but what I know is the full name should always be bold in the lead and if that's official by the sources, then it can stay like this.
  • quickly strengthened to 65 knots (120 km/h; 75 mph) km/h and mph shouldn't be linked.
  • with a barometric pressure of 975 mbar (28.8 inHg) Maybe link bar and inHg also maybe write mbar fully first because I have no clue what it is. Is megabar?
  • Should still be written fully here.
  • percent of homes were destroyed in Ebeye Add "Island" after Ebeye.
  • Per MOS:TIME all the 24-hour clock times should have a colon.
  • later on the depression, naming it 31W We need a convert here of watt, a space between 31 and watt also is needed and link watt too.
    • (Comment from another reviewer) The literal name is "31W", or at least that's what I got from reading this article. This has nothing to do with watts. epicgenius (talk) 19:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • on November 28 by JTWC, with winds of 35 kn (65 km/h; 40 mph) Reckon to link knots here and write it fully once.
  • Zelda vs Zelda. I'm not sure which one we should use?
  • Former for when the agency names it for the first time, latter for every other use of it. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:25, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Zelda intensified into a typhoon at 1200 UTC on November 29 near the Marshall Islands --> "Zelda intensified into a typhoon at 12:00 UTC that same day near the Marshall Islands"? The date is here unnecessary.
  • pressure reading of 990 mbar (29 inHg) Link both units and write mbar fully once.
  • Still should be written in its fully form.
  • something they did not expect "They" is meant to be JTWC?
  • I though this article was written in American English? Because per this, calling organisations "singular they" is more common in British English.
  • JMA isn't introduced in the body itself (in the first note it is but not all the readers look at the notes).
  • Unless you want to mention both agencies in their full name in the body again. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 20:05, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Normally I'd recommend but because it's pretty small it doesn't matter that much.
  • Remnants of the storm moved inland into northern British Columbia by December 8 How do we know these remnants are not part of the storm?
  • You read the newspaper article, where it says "The remains of typhoon zelda crossed Inland into northern be late Sunday spreading heavy snow to the coastal passes with lesser amounts over northern BC and southern Yukon." I'm pretty sure the newspaper says the remnants are part of the storm. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:33, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Zelda also produced a pressure of 990.1 hPa (29.24 inHg) What's hPa? Maybe write it fully per MOS:UNITNAMES and link it too.
  • In Ebeye, 60 percent of homes made Maybe add "Island" as a little introducing and change "In" to "On".
  • Coral reefs were also damaged when the storm came nearby Heavily or slightly damaged?
  • The United States Army engaged in cleanup and repairing Should be "clean up" per Ngram
  • I'm not an English teacher but if "cleanup" has another meaning then I wouldn't ask that again.
  • criticized the response of FEMA as the funding Introduce FEMA here.
  • aid via United Nations Disaster Relief Organization (UNDRO) on December 18 The UNDRO was formed on 19 December thus a day after the request and doesn't match with this date? Well at least the article says that to me.
  • The OCHA formed on December 19, and UNDRO is the predecessor of OCHA. UNDRO existed on December 18, the day it published the report. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 19:12, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • about $98,000 (1992 USD, equivalent to $178,547 in 2019) Unlink US dollar here per this is also too common look at MOS:OVERLINK.
  • UNDRO, United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), and Australia Australia here is an MOS:EGG
  • 10 minute winds are about 1.14 times the amount of 1 minute winds This is a start of a sentence per MOS:NUMNOTES We should try to avoid using figures at the start of a sentence. also it should be "10-minute" because of compound adjective.
  • 1 minute (in the notes) vs 1-minute (in the infobox)?

I think that's it for me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 11:20, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@CPA-5: Thanks for the review. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 20:07, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good to me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:22, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Yellow Evan[edit]

  • "A disturbance formed near the International Date Line," what kind of disturbance? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "For other storms of the same name, see Typhoon Zelda." why the hatnote given the title explicitly is in the year (hence no confusion)? Shouldn't the dab page be moved to the See also with the markup <non-wiki>Other tropical cyclones named Zelda</non-wiki>? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC) reported that the depression had reached tropical storm intensity near the Marshall Islands on November 28, thus naming it Zelda. Near the country on November 29," so it was near the country both days or? Also link to tropical cyclone naming somewhere near there. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In late November, a circulation was generated near the International Date Line by westerly winds." First off, circulation should probably link to low pressure area here rather than atmospheric circulation. The westerly wind bit seemed a bit simplistic, cuasing me to inquire about this further. Looking at the JTWC ATCR, the wording used is "Westerly winds along the equator associated with the onset phase of the El Niiio phenomenon helped to generate a weak cyclonic circulation near the international date line in late November." I'd just change this to "Westerly winds near the equator – associated with an ongoing El Niño event – assisted in spawning a weak area of low pressure in late November 1991 near the International Date Line. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It was included in the Significant Tropical Weather Advisory at 06:00 UTC on November 25." what is that? Either add to Glossary of tropical cyclone terms por do what I do and just say the JTWC started tracking the system at that time. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why do you not put "the" before JTWC/JMA in the MH but you do in the lead? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Zelda also produced a pressure of 990.1 hPa (29.24 inHg), which was the lowest pressure recorded on Kwajalein at that time.[12] " how does a storm "produce" pressure? Just saw a pressure was recorded on Kawjalein. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Zelda bought heavy rain and 70 mph (110 km/h) winds to Southeast Alaska.[14] " why US units? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "allowing federal funding to be sent to Arno, Aur, Kwajalein, Lae, Lib, Namu and Ujae islands" shouldn't there be a "the" stuck in here. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:11, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Yellow Evan: Thanks for the review. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 04:54, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • Image is appropriately licensed, but needs alt text and perhaps a location in the description
  • Map data seems to be appropriately sourced. Could the lines be made thicker (or made into a ranged box) to not mislead readers? Caption also needs to state general location. SounderBruce 05:24, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Made the lines thicker. Not changing the description, as it is standardized across the project, and the map is interactive and displaying the location. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 05:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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