Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mahavira/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 19:20, 31 August 2017 [1].

Mahavira[edit]

Nominator(s): -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 12:57, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the twenty-fourth Tirthankara of Jainism who holds great significance in the history of the religion. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 12:57, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  • Given the length of the article, the lead should be considerably longer
  • 3D objects should include a copyright tag for the original object, not just the photo - some may be covered by freedom of panorama, others will not. For 2D works under US law the photographer gets no copyright but the original artist does.
  • Still pending
  • Needs a pass for Manual of Style issues - linking, hyphenation, italicization, etc
  • Still pending
  • Generally the article is in need of copyediting - suggest reaching out to the Guild
  • See that you've done this but no one has responded yet
  • The text is likely to be difficult to follow for non-experts. For example, the Historical section discusses "year of nirvana", but this concept is neither explained nor even linked until later in the article.
  • Still pending
  • One-sentence subsections should be avoided
  • The {{expand section}} tag should be addressed
  • Citation formatting is generally quite inconsistent, and some citations are incomplete
  • Still pending
@Capankajsmilyo: Do you plan to respond to these comments? If not, this article will have to be archived. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:22, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have tried to address the concerns raised here. Please have a look and let me know what more needs to be done. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 12:35, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've flagged the issues still pending above. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:44, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed citations, please confirm. Also I am unable to understand 3D object point. Kindly elaborate.
Better, but not nearly there yet. Similar sources should be formatted in a similar way, we shouldn't be mixing different types of full citations ({{citation}} vs {{cite journal}} etc vs untemplated), and all citations should be complete. With regards to 3D objects: if you take a picture of a three-dimensional work like a sculpture in a country like the US which does not have freedom of panorama for sculpture, then there are two copyrights you need to account for in uploading the image - yours as the photographer, and the sculptor's. In most cases, the images in this article are only accounting for the photographer's copyright, and neglecting the creator of the work itself (or neglecting to reflect the freedom of panorama). Further, for two-dimensional works like paintings, the photographer actually gets no credit at all - the upload should account only for the copyright of the creator of the work. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:00, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
incomplete Journal ref cleaned too, also MOS dash fixed via tool. Regarding images, I haven't uploaded any image. All the images in this article are from commons. Do we have copyright violations on commons as well? Is there any mechanism by which it can be addressed? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 05:42, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can edit the image description pages to add/change tags as needed, or remove/swap images from the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 11:39, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any image which is in copyvio? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 17:37, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At present, I don't have adequate information to assess that, given the lack of details on the artworks pictured. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:56, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Then, which images were you asking to be removed? Kindly share an example. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 02:19, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am asking you to clarify the copyright status of all images of 3D objects (eg. Mahavir.jpg) as well as File:Mahavira_Enlightenment.jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:05, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know of only one source to find out the copyright status and that is commons itself. Commons says, "This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license." for File:Mahavira_Enlightenment.jpg. Should I write this line in image caption in article? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 03:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No. My concern is that the given tag is incorrect. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:07, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I raised a request on d:Commons:Help desk#Need help in verifying copyright status for EnWiki FA. I hope the issue is addressed now? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 09:36, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like someone has agreed that Mahavira_Enlightenment.jpg is potentially problematic. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:04, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Vanamonde[edit]

Once again I am concerned that this article is not up to FA standard. Some hard work has clearly been put into this since the last nomination, but some key areas are still a problem. The prose is often a concern: witness paragraphs such as "After twelve years of rigorous penance, at the age of 43, Mahavira achieved the state of Kevala Jnana (omniscience or infinite knowledge) under a Sāla tree according to traditional accounts.[53][61][62] The details of this event are mentioned in Jain texts like Uttar-purāņa and Harivamśa-purāņa.[63] The Acharanga Sutra describes Mahavira as all-seeing. The Sutrakritanga elaborates the concept as all-knowing and provides details of other qualities of Mahavira.[5] Jains believe that Mahavira had the most auspicious body (paramaudārika śarīra) and was free from eighteen imperfections when he attained omniscience.[64]" Within the Jain biography section, there is still problems with the article presenting Jain beliefs in Wikipedia's voice; the section title is not enough to cover the rest of the prose. The section on his ideological influence, which is large, rests on two large quotations, and has little other substance. Overall, I am concerned that the article has too much content in the form of lists, and too little substance. Finally, Sarah Welch has clearly been a major contributor to this article; but is she aware of this nomination, and does she support it? Vanamonde (talk) 06:52, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ms Sarah Welch: -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 06:57, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was unaware of this nom, and share the concerns of Vanamonde93. The para-text and the quote farming style he mentions above has been in the article before my first edit back in January 2017. I have indeed cleaned up the article few months ago, but it needs some more loving attention and copyedit before being FA-ready. @Capankajsmilyo: Thanks for the ping. I am busy IRL for the next few weeks, just started a visit to some monasteries in South and Southeast Asia, with limited access to internet and content resources. Can't be of much assistance. Please know I support and cheer your efforts to nominate, contribute to wikipedia, but please consider the wisdom in Vanamonde's comment. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 00:12, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment: Given the oppose from Nikkimaria, the concerns of Vanamonde and the lack of involvement in the nomination of the main contributor, I will archive this shortly. I would advise the nominator working with these reviewers and the main contributor on this article away from FAC before renominating. In any case, it cannot be renominated before the usual two-week waiting period. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:19, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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