User talk:Yngvarr/2007

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You, come help!

OK, just checking about for articles that I can edit to some degree and although nice to see Squirrel Boy and related articles are relatively clean and edited conservatively, it's still not good. Just asking for suggestions as the article has links to articles for characters although many more "popular" shows do not as there's so little to say on them they'd rarely ever make it up from Stub status. I'm proposing a small rewrite and possible padding as I want to take out the chararcter list and create a new article (and possible headache) but it makes up the bulk of the article so I'm looking to you to help consult with this for one single sweeping edit to be made so it cleans it up a bit and adds some more information. --treelo _talk 14:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I've created List of characters in Squirrel Boy for now, just a copy-paste from the main Squirrel Boy page, and nothing links to it yet. We can merge in the individual characters pages to this new, copy-edit everything, and then edit Squirrel Boy to remove all the character info.Yngvarr 15:03, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice work so far, main article seems a bit thin now though. Add a synopsis of the show at least and possibly trim down the main character bios and add them in for padding. If you can think of anything else to add, do so and I'll be the second opinion. --treelo _talk 15:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll continue to work on fleshing it out; right now, I'm called elsewhere (real-life) Yngvarr 16:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Be careful of reverts, given such a big edit it could happen. Seeing as the articles for the characters are now essentially orphans, I'll make them redirect pages instead. --treelo _talk 16:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Camp Lazlo and its many pages

Just as it's a specialist area for you, I've noticed that the main article for Camp Lazlo... well, I have a few questions about it and the offshoots and want your opinion on them.

Why does Camp Lazlo have a small navigation template? I know you didn't create it and you haven't edited it at all but it's worth asking why as it really doesn't work for six pages, one of which is redundant.

Is the species list (which oddly enough is just below the See Also section, usually at the bottom) totally needed? The character list pages should have them there with their respective characters, not just placed weirdly near the bottom as if it was sneaked in.

I've had one heck of a time with MGPAM, its' ever-changing character list and what passes for notable. The list seems fine to an extent but "minor" and "notable" seem interchangeable and generally speaking. If all that can be written on any character is "An air conditioner which fell from an airplane that was seen in "Over Cooked Beans" as was written for Mr. Freezy Breeze then it's not worthy of inclusion even for minor entities. My baseline stands at having an speaking appearance at least twice and possibly as a major part of those episodes. I should take that type of logic to the KND editors but they're a bit crazy there but it's my next area to goto.

Lists are not my friends and happen to not like indiscriminate lists so have a pretty dim view of them, haven't gone to see the List of places in Camp Lazlo and given how I felt some months ago about it, I reckon I won't like it though it has reason to exist. Also, everything is written in a very fanboyish style, something you were meaning to handle right? --treelo _talk 16:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I've been trying to keep the edits to be a little less than drastic, so my starting goal was to clean up grammar, typos, and that stuff. I'm editing each subsection at a time (the character descriptions, places, whatnot) and adding footnote references. IMO, footnote refs make the text cleaner and easier to read, rather than seeing every other sentence starting with "In the episode..."

As for the lists, at the very least, the TOC's will be severely edited, for reasons for which I agree. While a lot of the fluff still exists for the List of places in Camp Lazlo, you might actually like what's changed (and will - see the talk page).

What I've actually been doing is setting my DVR to record each episode, so I can pause, rewind, etc, and review the articles for what's written. For example, I have a major rewrite of Raj, that'll I'll be posting soon.

I've been looking at the template, but really haven't any ideas at the moment to improve it. I looked at Foster's template, which is very nice, but a little too big, and may use some of their ideas to expand the CL template. Someone recently added a single episode, the Invaded episode, to the template, which is just not visually appealing at all. Yngvarr 16:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm happy with making the locations in CL much less listy and that's always good. Sometimes drastic edits are what's required, I haven't exactly felt like I'm doing wrong if I'm rewriting an article so the fluff, cruft and crummy prose get cut out, for the greater good and all that. Writing about where characters appear is hard and most times it'd be easier to cite what episodes they appear in and possibly refer to TV.com for episode synopses which is something I wasn't aware would be the done type of thing and would help in other lists. I've considered FHIF to be a much larger project than the other toons just by being made by either Craig McCracken as anything by him or Genndy Tartakovsky usually has a huge world within itself so basing it off FHIF is way overstretching it. Not many shows have them unless they can give a good use, CL doesn't seem to be too different, anyway it was much larger and sprawling before and now has little use and could be removed to be honest. I could rewrite some as I'm slowly progressing through episodes not aired here and building up a better idea of the characters and what's useless to write about. Got a gameplan in mind? I'd like to see where I can actually be of use and not just for CL and SB articles. --treelo _talk 21:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Right now, what I am trying to do is edit the in-text phrases "in the episode..." and replace them with footnotes to the cited episode. I suspect that'll make the text read much clearer. What I did, for example, for Raj, was simply copy his whole description into a text editor, find and delete all redundancies, and relocate descriptive text so that they're adjacent, rather than in wholly separate paragraphs.

Check out my edits; even if you simply remove the "in the episode..." phrases and replace them with reference tags, without any major rewrite, that would be useful. I haven't done some, simply because I cannot recall the episode in mind, and can't be entirely sure of my memory.

I've also been trying to standardize how episodes are cited, when they are included in the text. Sometimes they're surrounded by double-quotes, but I've been replacing them with the emphasis (two single quotes) marks.

oh yea, I've been looking for over-use of parenthesis, and replacing them with clauses. Sometimes you can't help it tho.

A lot of the fancruft needs to be trimmed out, all the references to "family" and what-not. Unless specifically mentioned, there's no reason for it to be there; but, as you know, it keeps coming back.

Some of the descriptive text is useless, but I haven't removed much of it. Yet. Knowing that Edward has a pet piranha probably is of no significance, and adds no real depth to the character. Basic personality traits, recurring behavior, major plot devices, are the more important things.Yngvarr 21:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice, I'll try and rewrite some chunks. I was thinking about rewriting Clam's profile in the same way so hopefully I'll get that in too. People usually follow citations and the style of the article just so it doesn't stick out, be good to do it all and pick the others out when some IP editor comes along and screws it up. I think this'll rely on each of us doing a bunch of edits or one large edit then letting the other get in and do their bit, I'm well aware of notability so it should run closely to your own ideas. --treelo _talk 23:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Great. I did some quick work on the Squirrel Scouts section, mostly ripping out a lot of the "she appeared in", and tried to just leave minor points of interest. I also combined the "three unnamed squirrel scouts" into a single entity, but I'm sure fanfic will still pop in. I think I might be done for the night (8pm here). I'm going to leave the "inuse" tag you put up, in case you're gonna work some more tonight. Yngvarr 23:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

That inuse tag has a purpose but you and someone else did manage to get 7 edits in, all of which I ran right over because I didn't know what had changed but it's OK, I'll look over the last diff and incorporate your recent edits for the Squirrel Scouts. It's now merely a under construction as I've given in for the night (it's whatever time the sig states but one hour more) and shall resume sometime in the future. Keep up the referencing though, hard work but the 'episode' at the end of each citation note is redundant, it's implied from the section named "Episode References" which they all sit under. --treelo _talk 01:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! I just quickly checked it out, before I start my day; looks good so far. Sorry about stepping on your edits, was hoping I didn't. I like the IPA pronunciation for Lumpis, and especially the table for the footnotes (that was starting to concern me, since it was getting a bit unwieldy). Yngvarr

Bad edits are crawling back in, especially one huge edit which annoyed me as it was the same type of crap which happened at the MGPAM character article. I'd rather if we didn't document every appearance of the minor Squirrels or Beans. --treelo _talk 13:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I just got back from a weekend trip to the shore, and was kind of afraid it would happen. I looked quickly at the edits, it seems at least one other person is on "our side", and I noticed the "repeat offenders" are still trying to help. I'm kinda glad to see the "unnamed squirrels" missing, and the same will have to happen to the unnamed (fan-named) beans. I've been trying to be diplomatic, incorporating these "good faith" edits into the text, grammatically and syntactically, but it'll need some more sweeping edits.

one thing I was trying to do with my edits, is to do minor edits, even if it involved doing multiple edits to the same subsection. It helps to prevent revert-happy editors from sticking some of the nonsense back in, but maybe that's not such a good method.

Well, when I settle in, I'll see what's up, and hopefully we won't step on each other.Yngvarr 19:07, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I think one other is on our side but one really isn't. Most of the good faith edits are hopelessly crufty and couldn't be incorporated well without it reading just like cruft. Minor or major edits, doesn't matter as they'll still do it. Just keep at it as it's going to need tending to and I don't want another MGPAM character list on my hands where the IP editors have to be locked out. --treelo _talk 23:00, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

right. I've gone thru again, and did some more cleanup. Just need to touch up the last section "other squirrel scouts"

One of the next painful exercises will be to dramatically pare down the episodes article. WP:EPISODE says 10 words per minute, and given each episode is ~10 minutes, that's at most 100 words, which a lot of the "plot summaries" greatly exceed. Yngvarr 00:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah? Alright then, most people do see them for documenting every event in an episode from beginning to end but it's only supposed to be a rought summary. I'll try but I've got a feeling most of what needs to be done has been done and I'm feeling redudant and need a project. --treelo _talk 11:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Na, you're not being redundant, help is always good. The main characters is as clean as I think I can personally make it, but still a little fluffy. It's just a matter of doing some surgical trimming and keeping up with fan edits and people who insist on comparing it to this show or that show...

I posted a quick note on the episodes page, kind of a warning, but it's only been a day or so.Yngvarr 12:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

well, I'm going to go away for a while; that Yoko keeps adding fan fiction and refs to non-existent images, so I've filed an rfc, and am just going to step back for a day or so...Yngvarr 13:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I just had a look there, and all that is showing up is the unedited template for RFCs. It's also not showing up in WP:RFC/USER. Lucky number 49 14:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I'm still working on it, and then I closed my unsaved page and now need to start over again :-/ New to this process, so it's taking me some time... hopefully you'll check back here, and I'll put a note when done, and if you want, you can sign it, too Yngvarr 15:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I think (hope) I'm done with that

Responded to it. Thanks. Lucky number 49 17:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Yngvarr! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Daniel 04:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

A little something for your efforts

		The Minor Barnstar
		I, Lucky number 49 award Yngvarr with this barnstar in recognition of their attention to detail and numerous helpful small edits. Lucky number 49 00:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Warning Vandals

Hi when warning vandals like 61.68.142.131 can you please increase the warning level vandalism like this I feel should get a level two or tree warning consider the user had already gotten a level one warning 10minutes ago. Thank you and sorry if I'm sounding a bid rude but the is one of my pet peeves. --Chris ^g 10:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem, and not sounding rude; will do. Yngvarr 10:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Points

If it's not obvious yet, I'm a fairly poor editor and don't really edit as much as I think I should given the amount of knockbacks I got from one article which kinda put me on the backfoot when it comes to edits. Anyway, just a few minor issues.

Chowder is still a stub-class article as it's real short and still contains a stub template, I'd consider upping the level to mid once it airs.

My old non-friend requires regular edits, make sure it remains on your watchlist.

That's really all I can think of as you're doing decently which is good but makes me look like I'm doing nothing. Should do more but my wording is often squiffy and wrong. Enough self-critiquing, see you around. --treelo _talk 18:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Old non-friend got paid a visit today, 37 times. Reverted all the extra crap but it still reads like an illiterate tween wrote it whilst cranked on Mountain Dew. Not so much a "keep an eye on it" anymore but more a "needs major edits" type situation. Would, really would because I hate the current content so much but I hate the maintenance of keeping the over-zealous fanboys' edits at bay more. It's your kid now, should you choose to accept it. Warn the guy who did the clustercrap on it also, it isn't the first time. --treelo _talk 23:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I saw that earlier. I backed-out his edits to the episodes page, but wasn't watching too closely when he did his number on the characters. I put a non-warning up, and saw you put a warning up. I do agree with out, regarding the poor writing, I'll see what can be done. One minor problem (for me) is that I don't regularly watch the show, so some of the more subtle changes are easy to slip by. Yngvarr 00:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Make you a deal then, you help out with the rewrite and I'll try and keep tabs on what goes in and out even though that requires checking every diff to make sure nothing stupid or pointless gets in because I feel if you took out most of the fanprose and referenced eps you'd be looking at a pretty small list. I kinda feel also that I might not make the right call but you'll be around to make certain though there's no criteria on inclusion and a minor chars page wouldn't go amiss though really that's just pushing the problems to another article. Aside from all that, it needs a rewrite and I'm thinking of other neglected areas I should be monitoring. --treelo _talk 00:19, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

That sounds fine. If the article turns into something small, that's just something that'll have to be taken as is. A lot of the guidelines are pretty clear on lists, television episodes, etc, and the entire MGPM series should be brought into line. If that causes grief, the only thing we can do is point out policy. I have a suspicion that if we put a concerted effort into clearing it up, some of the more persistent IP editors might back off. Yngvarr 00:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I think I'm the only one with enough knowledge on the show that could verify anything that shouldn't be there so cite guidelines, write them into the body of the article, just make sure others don't get the idea that they can write out a transcript of an episode for any part of a character bio. Teamwork is the key to this little puzzle but I really hope the more persistent of the editors backs off because I'm not so certain I want to go back to WP:RPP for a more permanent lock due to a supposed content dispute. During the time it was semi-locked, it only got around 3 edits or so during the two weeks, good from an anti-vandalism perspective but bad from a topicality one.

Sidenote here, is it you who's putting commas before and and but? Don't do that, it's grammatically bad. --treelo _talk 00:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

...for the help with the template --Laveol ^T 12:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

My pleasure, certainly hope you don't mind Yngvarr 12:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations!

You've been assigned to proofedit and reformat chunks of List of characters from My Gym Partner's a Monkey and associated articles. The article is in need of a major rewrite and now is the best time to clean up the article before I end up going back to WP:RPP once more. There's two specific IP editors with the exact same pattern leading me to believe that they're part of a bunch of sockpuppets ran by one person assumed to be FoxLad. The IP this person has used so far are 207.145.122.43, 66.11.249.9, 61.9.126.41, 67.171.67.249 and 200.66.57.39. Would goto WP:ARV but they don't seem to care and throw as many reasons why they're messing stuff up for everyone, they'll only see an edit war.

Thing is, one more revert and that's the 3RR broken and reason enough to block that address and request permanent semi-protection against "edit wars". Sure, it's not huge page blanking or adding indiscriminate crap but in a way it's both of those things even though it doesn't look it. There's a barnstar in it for you if you do a nice job. --treelo _talk 18:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I've been doing off-line edits, trying to see what works well, and am sort of stuck right now. I'll keep working on it; if it needs a total rewrite in one session, well, so be it. I'm still weighing things out in my mind

as for our IP friend, well, he basically threw out a challenge on his last edit with an edit summary, "give up already!". So I've posted to semi-protect the page, and will go from there. Yngvarr 23:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see how this'll look, a lot needs to be rewritten as it's either vastly incorrect or copypasta (and copyvio by extension) and added some more things which actually are right on the main MGPAM article. --treelo _talk 00:14, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Page is now protected, and in the meanwhile, it looks like someone named JadeOwl is actually doing a re-write right now, and it looks good so far. I guess I miss out on that barnstar! I'll just watch it for now, and leave it be. Yngvarr 18:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My Contributions

I don't think there's a mistake on my previous edits on the List of characters from My Gym Partner's a Monkey page. I just add things on the basis from seeing some of the episodes. By the way, what talk page where you mentioning when you contacted me. Is it the one of the article? That one hasn't change for days. The one rule I know is not to add characters which are just crowd-fillers. FoxLad 23:35, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Please block him

The vandal (IP address is 24.20.47.60) what vandalised the "Camp Lazlo" section has also been vandalising everything in the "Ice Age" category and as such, I need you to help me to block him from editing, as he's been warned several times not to vandalise, but does not seem to listen.

Thank you--KnowledgeLord 21:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just posted it over at WP:AIV, so we'll see what happens. Last time I tried to post someone who vandalizes in this time-lapse method, it was basically disregarded, but I'll continue to post them nonetheless! Yngvarr 22:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

PvP help

Thanks for working on Player versus player in World of Warcraft. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't just turn to WoW Wiki. :) Luatha 21:39, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. I've been trying to do some other work on various other WoW pages. Mostly I'm trying to get them to be out-of-world, and stuff like that. Yngvarr 12:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

24.20.47.60

Hi Yngvarr - you reported 24.20.47.60 (talk · contribs) to WP:AIV for vandalism. I looked over the IP's recent edits, and could not see any that could be described as vandalism. They have been making a lot of edits, however, and it's entirely possible I missed the vandal edits. Could you provide any diffs of this vandalism? Thanks. In the meantime, I've taken the submission off WP:AIV. Neil ム 11:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for the reply. My edit summary for the AIV report was "nonsensical edits", but that might not be the best term. Here are a couple examples:

[1] Wikilinks which direct to misleading articles, especially based on character names
[2] inappropriate wikilinks, eg "Scooby Snacks" is the link, not "scooby" "snacks"

Probably one of the better examples would be the edit history at [3].

Okay, thanks, Yngvarr. Please read Wikipedia:Vandalism - vandalism is making edits deliberately intended to make the article worse. What this IP seems to be doing is not deliberately making the article worse - yes, they may be making poor edits, but it's not vandalism - they are trying to help! Could I suggest you try speaking about this, nicely, to the IP via their talk page, remembering that they may well be very new to Wikipedia and not aware what should and should not be wikilinked? You may like to try one of the welcome templates ({{Welcomeanon2}} would suit). Neil ム 12:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I know others besides me have tried to work with the user, which the talk page should show. I just posted another (hopefully friendly) note pointing out these issues. Thanks again for the replies. Yngvarr 13:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I noted a few other editors seem to be unfairly characterising this users edits as vandalism. I have left a message on the talk page of the worst offender. Bearing in mind the subjects the IP is editing, the possibility that this is a very young user should also be considered, and a friendly and simple approach is best. Thank you very much for the polite and constructive edit to their talk page, by the way. Keep up the good work. Neil ム 13:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Neil, I don't know if you're still watching my talk. In any event, this editor is now on 66.190.244.68. Is this considered sock-puppetry? Here are some diffs:

[4] [5]

[6] [7]

[8] [9]

The insistence on adding very specific species is what makes me suspect; these are trivial characters, and their species are never mentioned in the show. Yngvarr 09:50, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

rep in Wow

Do you have any more references on that page? I nominated it for WP:DYK but the page is a bit of a confusing read, and I do not have expertise in Wow.Baka man 23:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for nominating it for DYK! I'm still doing some editing, trying to clean it up and what not; I do want to get more refs, and I'll continue banging at it. I'm trying to keep it in an "out of world" context, so that players who don't play WoW may understand it, so I'd welcome some input on how to make it clearer. Yngvarr 23:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Right now its one big paragraph, please consider splitting into 3-5 smaller paragraphs, separated by headers.Baka man 00:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Need your input

Got something that I'd like some help with on the main project talkpage. --treelo _talk 16:29, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just needing a little help or more

I was told by Rattis1 in another website that this Marcus2 was doing a war in Wikipedia especially on the Powerpuff Girls. I broke lots of rules but I completely repaired them all by apologizing but I'm sure it is not enough so I'll try my best not to break any from now on. Alert me if I do again. Marcus2 called me a LIAR in one part of the Edit war and he broke lots of rules more than I and Rattis1 did. Although he was right about the Cultural References thing and probably a little more other ones, he is still causing lots of trouble and we don't like it at all. I'm sure you would not like it too if you were me. If you find it necessary, please block this Marcus2 so we would not have anymore Edit wars. I like peace and not war so let me know what you think about this.

Thanks man, I'm looking forward to Forever Peace on WIkipedia. Night Leon 05:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Another FYI

Due to the images being deleted for that list (leaving it with exactly none) through CSD (don't ask who, history is gone for the nom), we either need to provide the neccesary reasoning for them falling under FU or upload some new images to replace the ones deleted so far.

Here's the template required for the images to justify FU with an example for reference (actually what I was inputting whilst it was being deleted): {{Non-free use rationale |Description=A screen capture of a character from the show "My Gym Partner's A Monkey" |Source=Off-air screencap |Portion=Full screen |Low_resolution=This image was taken at a low resolution |Purpose=Providing an image identifying the character in question as addition to a list of characters from the the television programme |Replaceability=No replaceable content |other_information=This image constitutes only a reference of a character and will not harm the copyright owner financially or intellectually. }}

If you're wondering like me how we missed that someone had put them forward, figure we need to goto the person who marked them CSD and ask why they didn't notify the talkpage about it seeing as the user who uploaded in the first place how been long gone. If you wish to go contact the admin who deleted them and plea our case, make it so. --treelo _talk 16:34, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's a shame. Be interesting to see if someone tries to revert those edits :-/ But we can try to get new pictures and give a justification. Altho, fairly recently, several articles have been sweeped and images deleted (Billy and Mandy is one that I recall), WP:NFCC#8, decorative use of images Yngvarr 00:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:NFCC mentions minimal use of non-free images and what was there before couldn't really be considered "minimal" and really screwed up the pageflow anyway so I'm thinking more group images, less singles. I can grab some shots from episodes so should I be doing that or getting the older ones back? --treelo _talk 14:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've been thinking about this, and am leaning towards getting new images, rather than trying to get the old ones back. I figure keep away any undue bias, since they were originally deleted, they might get tagged again, even if they have a proper justification.Yngvarr 17:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm going to go with new images too, for much the same reasons and that it's not worth the effort getting some of them back anyway. As a sidenote, Camp Lazlo articles seem to be attracting a fair bit of vandalism over the last 24 hours or so, probably will stop but I'm thinking if we get more pageblanks then WP:RPP might be the way to but only for 12 hours or less. ALso, did you know about the copyright template for CN screenshots? Apparently, it do exist since July last year and I'll be using it. --treelo _talk 15:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

What to do...

Dunno if this is just me fretting about this but if the correct course of action for the Lazlo char list is to get rid of many of the non-main characters, where does that leave the secondaries? I'm figuring we just take the chars we cut from the main list and put them there as that seems like the best course though I'm reckoning that taking it to WP:AFD would be equally as valid. --treelo _talk 19:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't think it's just you fretting. But right now, I'm thinking to just wait a little while. Since the main chars article is still on full-protection, give it a little longer to settle things down.

But, we can trim down the secondary characters page, they're much too fluffy right now anyways, and contention hasn't been as great for that page as the main page. I guess they're not just as important as the others. Trim them down, and some of them can be combined into the same blurb, like the "Blue Hairly Mountain Man" and the "Wampum Springs Crew", since they all appeared in the same episode.

If worse comes to worse, if things get trimmed down as recommended, it'll make the "main characters" page small enough to merge the "secondaries", give them another section and just call it something else. I've been looking at the main characters page anyways, some of the traits and whatnot are one-time shots to begin with. I'd honestly rather not take anything to AfD, regardless of recommendations (and if a third-party were, I'd probably civilly contest it).

I'm (still) trying to get a good grip on how other ("mature") cartoons are doing things, like the Simpsons. I'm sure they've got a rabid fanbase of their own, but they also have more exposure, and more people working to keep things reasonable. I'm actually glad to hear what that Coren wrote about the Harry Potter stuff; I may just go pop over and see how that's being worked. Yngvarr (t) (c) 19:41, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Thing is, rabid fanbases can happily be rabid if they know what's right and what is not. Being rabid doesn't mean you're an idiot also, our issue is with a fairly young fanbase where rabidness is that more defined and less likely to be thinking if that's even worth mentioning. I'd say to go see how others manage their sprawl and report back as it were on the project talkpage so we can chew through what to do. I didn't even know there was a minor character list for Lazlo and I'm feeling it does have a place but it's weird as the notability is almost destined to be non-existent say for the Blue Hairy Mountain Man seeing as he only ever appeared once as did 90% of the characters mentioned. Better go and try and update your essay with more of my take on notability and how we do need to handle it here. --treelo _talk 20:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

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Accidental article recreation

Hi - thought you'd like to know that it looks like Christopher J. Mack was being speedily deleted as you AFD'd it - the result is that you've re-created the page and it only consists of an AFD template! You can probably go back and {{db-author}} the article and then speedy close the AFD (or delete it, I don't spend much time at AFD to know what's best). Regards, Bencherlite ^Talk 23:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that, now I feel a little silly :-/ Thanks for the advice, I've tagged it as such Yngvarr (t) (c) 23:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry, these things happen. At least it shows that there are lots of eyes looking at these new articles and the CSD backlog! Bencherlite ^Talk 23:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Yngvarr/Working

I think now might be the best time to get that third party involvement that I figured you may had already made moves to dealing with by now seeing as the last thing was done on Wednesday. Add {{helpme}} to this page and explain how we need a third opinion on the page, I'd do it but it's not my talkpage and it isn't in my namespace so it'd be weird if I did it. --treelo _talk 11:50, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Help me!

A couple of us have been working on dealing with various issues on the articles for Camp Lazlo. For starters, a userspace re-write is located at User:Yngvarr/Working. We'd like some disinterested eyes to look over both the live articles, and the re-write at [[User:Yngvarr/Working, and offer some opinions. There have been a number of "issues" with this series which I can briefly outline, but the best would be to start at the title article, and look at the other individual articles (there aren't many):

Main Characters in Camp Lazlo

This article was the source of a massive edit war, and probably the start of it all. It's full of irrelevant trivia and what might be considered "original research". It's been in full-protection for quite some time, and I personally have no plans on asking for it to be unprotected. The edit history should hopefully be evidence enough, and talk page shows some of the conversations to try to address the issue. Finally, a third-opinion was voiced. I have no disagreement with the third-opinion, but being at a loss to address the third-opinion, it was figured that a total rehaul of the articles would be best.

These last two articles are trivial. They're one-shot locations or characters. Some are major plot foci, but only for an individual episode. Some of these don't even appear directly, but are rather referenced via casual remarks made by the characters.

The basic idea is to delete all these characters and locations articles, and move the working page into the mainspace. There are some further discussions located Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cartoon Network#Think of a name for this section. As above, right now, the main concern is to get a third-party involved and give some advice. Those of us who are active on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Cartoon Network do want to get articles to a higher quality, and would have some outside assistance or input. Yngvarr (t) (c) 16:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

It may be more appropriate to make a Request for Comment, instead of the helpme template. - Rjd0060 18:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

RFC? Didn't reckon that was possible but checking the RFC pages it ain't really the sort of thing seeing as there's mainly disputes and needing a third party intervention instead of a mini-peer review. Just end up being told how RFC is for disputes only and end up back here asking for help again so let's skip that step. --treelo _talk 17:11, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, so now what? Yngvarr (t) (c) 18:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you try the Mediation Cabal? They can offer some help in dispute resolution.

--FastLizard4 (Talk•Links•Sign) 22:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not a dispute! Only dispute I have right now is with the lack of help we're getting.--treelo _talk 10:57, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The page looks OK to me. Note that the main article is now unprotected. I must have missed something, but I don't see much activity here, beside the usual vandalism. Note that in order to gauge consensus about the 2 pages you cited, the best might be to send them to AfD. -- lucasbfr ^talk (using User:Lucasbfr2) 15:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I did post those arts to AfD, but I felt that I jumped the gun and asked for it to be closed. We really wanted some outside (disinterested) guidance, and I figured that this is not a unique situation, but so far we're turning up empty. Yngvarr (t) (c) 21:46, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Er, I think you may have jumped the gun because I felt you did in not asking someone to pass judgement and edit the article if at all. Someone did and seeing as it's OK to them, I would like if we moved it to the main article namespace and get a peer review if you're still uncertain of content. Sure, peer reviews are poor and for the most part useless (most returning the auto-review which is annoying) but it's the only thing we've got. You are free to AfD the two articles as well as the game article. --treelo _talk 22:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Clearly not paying attention, can't move the working article as you correctly stated as it already exists and it's not possible to do it without an admin doing the heavy lifting. I checked WP:RM for the info on moves and I've gone and listed it as a controversial as it is... in some way at least. Thing is that I can't see how we warn the main article editors to the fairly large edit coming their way. If we get a decision to have it moved which usually happen fairly fast, I'll start putting the minors and locations up for AfD. Had to do something in your absence! -treelo _talk 20:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Heh, sorry for lack of activity, real life has me tied up, barely enough time to keep an eye on my watchlist. Glad to see you've posted the game; if worse comes to worse, we can copy-paste, but from what I read, that is frowned upon. I'd probably tag it with working or underconstruction or whatever the tag is that puts that header at the top of the article. Yngvarr (t) (c) 21:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Woah, wait, you mean to tag the article when it's refused a move, right? if there was a quick and dirty template-based means by which to tell others there might be a move imminent and their opinion is required I'd do it but there isn't one but I'm not putting "This article might have it's info changed, go see this talk page to discuss why it shouldn't", not like it's had many edits over the last few days. -treelo _talk 21:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism reversion

Hey, On SpongeBob SquarePants (character) you accidentally reverted to another revision containing vandalism. When multiple contain vandalism, go to the view of the last non-vandalism revision (click the time of that revision in the history) then click "edit", type in a reason, and save. It will remove all changes since that revision.

An easier way is to install something like TWINKLE, but undo is fine :) Anti V Man 21:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, actually I do use TW, but for some reason, I didn't pay attention to the edit history, and just used the standard "undo"; oh well, glad you caught it. Yngvarr (t) (c) 21:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you online?

I saw you were involved with a related article. I was wondering if you could help me with something. Taric25 21:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm here for about another 10 minutes, then I need to step out for a few hours. If it's not urgent, reply back. I'll check before I leave. Yngvarr (t) (c) 21:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, it's quick. I was going to upload some images for an article, and I saw you working in the video game related articles. I'm going to place {{Fairusereview}} on the image description pages. I was wondering if you could review them and replace it with

{{Reviewedfairuse| pages = [[List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]] | user = [[User:Yngvarr]] | date = [[October 5]][[2007]]}}

, but if you can't do it this instant, that's ok. Just let me know. Taric25 21:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I'm just on my way out the door, so it'll be a few hours before I return. I'll check it out later, just post back if you still need me (or if you find someone else to assist!) Thanks Yngvarr (t) (c) 21:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I still do need your help. Please take a look at the following images.

I've placed {{Fairusereview}} on the image description pages. I was wondering if you could review them and replace it with

{{Reviewedfairuse| pages = [[List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]] | user = [[User:Yngvarr]] | date = [[October 5]][[2007]]}}

. (For Image:Super Mario RPG world map.png, you'll have to replace it with

{{Reviewedfairuse| pages = [[Mushroom Kingdom]] and [[List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]] | user = [[User:Yngvarr]] | date = [[October 5]][[2007]]}}

, since we use it in both articles.) Thanks! Taric25 00:08, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I checked them out and everything looked good, so I tagged them appropriately. Just curious, but may I ask why you asked me to do this, and why you want them reviewed? Yngvarr (t) (c) 02:08, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I was having a discussion with another Wikipedian who I believed was going to make a claim that the images are not fair use, so I did some research and found that another Wikipedian can check the image description page and review the fair use rationale by using the aformentioned template. I looked for someone online in the WikiProject, and I saw your contributions close to the current time and date, so I decided to leave a message on your talk page.

Thank you so much for your help! By the way, I notice you live in New Jersey. My brother lived there for quite some time with my grandfather and his children, my aunt and uncle.

Also, I was going to upload some more. Would you mind reviewing their fair use? If you don't mind, what time are you usually online? (I'm in the same time zone, EST, in Florida.) Taric25 18:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

NASCAR Fan24's Secret Page!

		The Secret Page Detective Award
		This user has found NASCAR Fan24's hidden page! Congratulations!

NASCAR Fan24^{(radio me!)} 12:12, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

WoW AfD

Sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion; I suppose I'm just a little wary after instigating that Runescape AfD - it hasn't proven to be a good way to make friends! Cheers, Miremare 01:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

cranium article

thanks for the refs. not sure what that editor was thinking. --Lukobe 04:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Danny Daniel

I've indef blocked that sock. If he pops up again, feel free to post on my user talk page; if I don't seem to be around, open a new SSP case or post on WP:ANI for help. --Akhilleus (talk) 00:34, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your speedy help! He'll probably lay low for a little while now, that seems to be the pattern. Yngvarr (t) (c) 00:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for tagging Duhdhhrfhfhfhfh as a sockpuppet of Danny Daniel; I attempted to do it myself but followed the wrong red link and instead created a nonsense article (which, obviously, I quickly put up for SD). *facepalm* But anyway, yes, I knew I'd seen "Spactacus" and "Robert Rotten" before! --HamatoKameko 20:32, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Camp Lazlo

Hm. What's the status of your outstanding request at WP:RM? I must say that you created bit of a mess... First, you could have edited the Camp Lazlo itself rather than making a sandbox fork—it doesn't look like a high-traffic page where you would be disturbed during the upgrade. If you haven't, for some reason, you could have just copy & pasted the sandbox over the main article -- edit histories are there for author attribution, and it doesn't matter much if it would appear as one single big change of yours, rather than a series of small ones. Moving the sandbox over the mainspace article could make the edit history tough to read. If the pages are in sync now, as they appear to be, should I unlist it from the RM? As far as I can tell, there's nothing to do for an admin? (please reply here). Duja► 07:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

You can de-list it. I thought I was doing the right thing, but apparently not. Apologies for causing trouble, which was not my intention. Thanks. Yngvarr (t) (c) 09:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Your NPWatcher application

Dear Yngvarr,

Thank you for applying for NPWatcher! You've been approved to use it. Before you run the program, please check the changelog on the application page to see if there is a newer release (or just add the main page (here) to your watchlist). Report any bugs or feature suggestion here. If you need help, feel free to contact me or join NPWatcher.

Jmlk 1 7 00:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Yng varr 00:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thought you might like this...

The Special Barnstar

		The Special Barnstar
		Presented to Yngvarr for reverting vandalism on my "secret page". Keep up the vandal-reverting! NASCAR Fan24^{(radio me!)} 22:30, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Redirect of User:Yngvarr/Sandbox

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on User:Yngvarr/Sandbox, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because User:Yngvarr/Sandbox is a redirect to a non-existent page (CSD R1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting User:Yngvarr/Sandbox, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. CSDWarnBot 09:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A what-now?

Huh, going on wikibreak then, bucko? Have a good time off, I fear for many article's general wellbeing now but hopefully I can stop some of it because it is just me out there and yknow how it is when you're not around and the place gets swaped in crap because the other guy wasn't around much either.

And I will one day get a barnstar for my doing nothing. --treelo _talk 02:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

When I find myself having dreams about Wikipedia, I figured it might be time to take a break. Yng varr 11:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I concur, that's what you get for going too deep into the bowels of Wikiepdia! The barnstars are but nothing to ease the pain of dreaming about Wikipedia maintenance. --treelo _talk 03:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

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A story...

If you cast your mind back, you remember the huge debacle involving the character list for Gym Partner. Recently, a new article designed specifically to me to circumvent the semi-lock on the main article and being a direct cut and paste of all the non-entities and one-shots when they were still in the list á la a certain annoying IP editor. Anyway, tried to speedy delete the article but no good thanks to a disinterested admin who's asking for me to allow that tarball of cruft to live as to appease the stupider fans even if the content is good only for a fansite.

Anyway, had to file a request for deletion and being the slow plodding piece of no-good it is needs new opinion as only two people have put forward their opinion, one for merge and one to delete. Get your say in so you don't end up patrolling this pointless list also. -treelo _talk 14:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

eplist

At the moment, I've got a sandbox for a Chowder eplist which I'll be updating when the main article is updated with listings. You're free to maintain it also and yes, it's not technically a sandbox as it's live and liable to edits by anyone who's able to type "list of Chowder episodes" or been pre-emptively watching it but it's not linked from the main article or anywhere else besides here so traffic will be minimal bar the occasional bot. -treelo _talk —Preceding comment was added at 15:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The official CN Chowder website episode list appears to be inconsistent with what actually aired. Someone had added the two new episodes to the main Chowder article, and they're correct (I verified the names against my DVR recordings). I'm not sure how they do things, but I'd assume that the same episodes are aired across all timezones (I'm in Eastern Time). Yng varr 16:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing the same eps will be shown on all timezones too, can't say being outside North America. So, figure that maintaining this list will be good practice? -treelo _talk 17:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Curious

Just wondering why you reverted my edits at [10]? I was in the middle of editing a few sections and noticed that you reverted my edits, then backed out your revert. Yng varr 11:22, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Nicely spotted, i really hoped i reverted it back fast enough to avoid hindrance :)
In short, the TV serie chowder is not broadcasted around here, which means im rather unfamiliar with the subject. The text "a could of stink who follows Chowder around" kinda rang a vandalism warning bell in my head. The previous edit you made contained "Fart Cloud" so i assumed that you were a persistent vandal who attacked the page multiple times.

However, when i had a better look at the page, i saw it was a cartoon serie, and earlier edits also contained this bit of information. Also, your talk page indicated that you were not a vandalism account. When i noticed that i reverted my own revert, as it was clearly not vandalism. Sorry for the inconvenience though, if any :) --Excirial^{(Talk,Contribs)} 11:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

SineBot

Thanks for the heads up. Someone decided to change api.php's recentchanges processing, thereby breaking backward with "rctype" numeric compatibility. Should be fixed for now. Cheers =) --slakr^\ talk / 21:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Chowder

As I think that the Chowder article needs some padding and we have quite a wealth of info over at Greenblatt's blog, we probably should use the content there either for imagery (which is in something of a grey area but I reckon that for him to use the images, he'd have had to get permission from Cartoon Network so could be said to be promotional) and the brief writeups for the characters to define them better as even though we haven't seen some of the aspects of the characters listed currently, they do have documented info so best to use and cite. I've cited some extra stuff for Gorgonzola so follow from there. --treelo _talk 22:06, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Not really a response, just a simple follow-up. I did mention something about the images in the last post and still reckon one or two could be used in order to help out the article and to test the free-use for them as it's still ambiguous if you can use them to me. I'd go and upload some myself but as I'm suggesting their use here it might be figured I'll go and upload them, I'm not. Should but I'm not. --treelo _talk 16:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I uploaded a group shot. I figured with the image issues we had on Lazlo, it would be better to include a group shot, rather than the individuals. It won't clutter up the article too much. If you can, check the rational, I'm never clear on what works and what doesn't. Yng varr 15:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

The issues with Lazlo seemed to be with lists, not main articles say for a specific chararcter or show. I'd stick with the group shots logic but I doub't it applies in this case. The rationale is alright, few kinks but that should handle anyone concerned. --treelo _talk 18:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, OK! Back here to ask if you remember this version of the infobox I dealt with some time ago which was then removed due to it I'm assuming breaking the layout. Figure it's good to go back in though the problems would still result? Oh, and now you can say Shnitzel is a rock monster with citation even though we've known for some time he's a rock monster. --treelo _talk 23:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back! Hmph, I don't remember when the infobox was removed. That was an IP editor who did it, but they didn't offer any edit summary (my edit prior was to correct Shnitzel's spelling). Why not put it back in and see what it looks like? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yngvarr (talk • contribs) 18:58, December 19, 2007

I know, I didn't even notice it until today. Well, I did but using preview instead of actually making it go live and it still breaks layout due to the image causing the issue of a bottleneck of sorts with the text. It's back in now but I had to cut most info from the box and only add in country of origin and website link which is pretty crummy and it's that damn image (or alternatively a short leader) causing the trouble! By the way, I've added some comments in where I think there's issues, lets see if we can work at them and get there quick, someone will remove them even though you should be that person! If it is gone from the current version by the time you get to read it then here's the diff link [11] And sign your responses, makes you look sloppy, you can tell me to leave better summaries if you like. --treelo _talk 01:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I addressed some of your in-line comments, trying to incorporate as much as I could. Yng varr 12:53, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Missed the Cast and Crew section, the lead voice actors and production staff can fit into the infobox now so might be able to cut it out. --treelo _talk 00:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

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I restored one Rocko episode because of real life info about its production

As you know, Joe Murray restored his website. Since it has info about the production of Trash-O-Madness, I restored the ep's Wikipedia article so that it contains the information about its production; unlike the other episodes it was animated in Saratoga. WhisperToMe (talk) 10:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: I also restored Wacky Delly due to the info about the shooting of the live action meatloaf scene. WhisperToMe (talk) 10:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

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City warming

My apologies, it seems that I was mistaken. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 12:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry, you weren't ;-) Everybody makes mistakes, and I'm more than happy when somobody brings mine to my attention. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 13:03, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

"sic" on Heffer Wolfe article

Hey. Thanks for the heads up on the sic - although I don't really agree with it. This isn't the most reliable source (in fact, if you really want to stay true to the source, you really have to change the spelling of "audience" to match the misspelled "audiance" in the reference), and I don't feel like you HAVE to copy obvious typos from references. The only time one has to retain typos is if you are preserving the character of something - a historical reference, etc. Anyways, I'll leave it up to you to figure this out and decide what you want to do. Tanthalas39 (talk) 22:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)