User talk:Visik/Archives/2010/October

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Hey!

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Fair use rationale for Image:Altiris logo.gif

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Jinjiang, Fujian

Hi, I noticed that you renamed Jinjiang, Fujian to Jinjiang County by cut and paste. 1. please don't rename a page by cut and paste. This is to respect the previous editors' contributions. For further information, see Help:Moving a page. 2. Jinjiang is a county-level city, not a county. It should not be named as Jinjiang County. For further information, see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese). Thanks. --Neo-Jay (talk) 04:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Redirect of Longhai

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2009 NPC

I noticed you did a lot of work on the 2008 NPC. Want to continue that enthusiasm for the 2009 NPC? Colipon+(T) 03:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Chinese templates

Thank you for your work in formatting Chinese stuff across the project. Just for your information, templates like {{zh-cp}} and others are now deprecated, and the simpler template {{zh}} can be used for all of them (just use something like {{zh|c=...|p=...}}). Best, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 05:04, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Templates

Very nice Chinese cuisine templates by province! Badagnani (talk) 16:38, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Peet Limited

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Thank you.

A tag has been placed on Peet Limited requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article, which appears to be about a real person, individual animal(s), an organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

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For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. UtherSRG (talk) 09:10, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Satterley

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Thank you.

A tag has been placed on Satterley requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article, which appears to be about a real person, individual animal(s), an organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. UtherSRG (talk) 09:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Ningbo University of Technology

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Template:Banana cultivars

Hi Visik, I believe it's possible to expand the template you created in April, {{Banana cultivars}}, to include more than cultivars. Therefor I took the liberty to add links and move it to more general {{Banana}}, feel free to make any changes if you dislike anything, cheers, jonkerz♠ 21:18, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I've done heaps of templates for today. Tired. Will work on the Bamboo species template another day. Visik (talk) 08:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

tomorrow's task for myself to do. make a template of Category:Bamboo taxa. Visik (talk) 08:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Answered on my talk page to keep the discussion in one place. jonkerz♠ 20:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

New templates

Good job on the all the new templates templates. I have done a lot of work on multiple food navbox templates and appreciate the enthusiasm, work and time that goes into doing these things.

A couple of quick notes:

1. When you ad the {{wpfood}} banner to template or category talk page, you do not have to add |class= or |importance= tags, the template picks up class automatically and templates and categories do not require importance tags
2. There are several sub categories of Category:Food navbox templates and Category:Drink navbox templates including Category:beer navbox templates, Category:wine navbox templates, Category:Dessert navbox templates, Category:Cheese navbox templates and others that you can add instead of the parent categories.

Would you care to join WP:Food? We could use people like yourself. Also, do you sleep? That is a ton of work you have done in the past several months! --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 15:49, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey man. Thanks for compliments. Yes I do sleep. Thank you also for the helpful information in categorizing templates rather than just the parent category as I haven't really explored those areas yet. At this stage, I do templates sporadically as I try to fit in time to do some worthwhile contributions. At some stage I may join WP:FOOD as a template contributor.

have a good one. Visik (talk) 02:15, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, forget to add, thanks for info for on the wpfood banner in the temp or cat talk page. I'll remember to leave the banner without any additional sub tags.Visik (talk) 02:17, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Also

BTW when you wish to display a template in line with the brackets, use the {{tl}} template. Its format is {{tl|template name}}.

Here are some related ones:

• {{cl}} for categories, its format is {{cl|category name}} example - {{cl|Cheese navbox templates}} which would produce this: Category:Cheese navbox templates.
• {{al}} for articles, its format is {{al|article name}} example - {{al|Cheese}} which would produce this: Cheese (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch.
• {{lc}}, {{lt}} and {{la}} for an extended template with related links. example - {{lc|Cheese navbox templates}} would give you Category:Cheese navbox templates (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs).

There are a bucnh of others if you look hard enough. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

On lists in templates

The {{·w}} & {{•w}} templates are used in conjunction with the {{nowrap begin}} and {{nowrap end}} templates. If you are not using the nowrap templates, then you can use the standard {{·}} & {{•}}.

Example:

{{nowrap begin}} list item 1 {{·w}} list item 2 {{·w}} list item 3 {{·w}} list item 4 {{·w}} list item 5 {{nowrap end}}

The purpose of the {{·w}} & {{•w}} templates is to prevent a multi-word list item from being broken in the middle when a line break is required. The regular {{·}} & {{•}} templates would still incur a line break with in the middle of the list item if used within the nowrap templates. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 09:38, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar!

		The Food and Drink Barnstar
		This here barnstar is awarded for your work in creating so many new food and drink templates in the past few weeks! Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:05, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Category:Mayonnaise Sauces

I think you are attempting to move this to the template name space. Categories can not be moved. Since you are the only editor, just cut and paste to the template name space. Then nominate the category for deletion using {{db-g7}}. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:12, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the good advice. I'll follow up with it. Visik (talk) 05:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under pending changes. Pending changes is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial. The list of articles with pending changes awaiting review is located at Special:OldReviewedPages.

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If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 01:17, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit conflicts

Sorry, I didn't notice we were working in the same span of articles (like a few other times ;)). I just kept opening new tabs like crazy. Don't worry, your were in there in the Potentilla category before me ;) I'll take a pause and continue later, cheers, jonkerz♠ 04:32, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey Jonkerz, thats cool. Sorry to keep you waiting. I'm done with the Potentilla articles. I was going through adding the templates and doing some references. You can go for it now and sort out the category. What a conincidence!. Well, its glad we have been able to organise and get stuff done even if sometimes our edits overlap. Visik (talk) 04:36, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Funny thing, I noticed you created the Fragaria template and got the first edit conflict warning when saving the exact same edit as you did here. To avoid conflicts I took my mouse clicking skills over to Category:Potentilla, but you were already there, haha ;) By the way, great job with all your template creations! jonkerz♠ 04:53, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Jonkerz, like yourself, I had so many tabs open on my browser and fixing articles. I didn't realise there were edit conflicts until I saw your new message flashed on my page. Good thing you noticed straight away and notify me otherwise we may end up trying to edit but ending up with nothing. I think its very courteous of you to let me finish my bit. The same will also apply to meso if I find you already a span of articles first, I'll let you finish your work before I start. I can always move to another area to work on. Enjoy your editing :P

Visik (talk) 05:22, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Genus templates

Hello! I was just curious: where are you getting the accepted list of species or genera for your templates? And also a helpful note: lists like those should probably only include taxa, not common names. And don't forget to italicize taxa at the rank of genus and below. How far are you intending to go with these templates? Do you plan to create many more? Rkitko ^(talk) 15:03, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi there, thanks for your message. The list of species or genera comes from the categories. Let me give you an example, for this template, {{Clematis}}, there is a category Category:Clematis. These categories were automatically generated when someone (not me) tags it to an article which they think it is relevant. All templates I create originates from the category it belongs to.

I'm not sure if italicizing names is common in templates. I know they are in articles for scientific articles like taxa and genera. It maybe helpful to discuss it with others who are familiar with science experts like yourself and others to get a consensus. I just start templates to a bare minimum, to get all relevant articles connected with each other for easier navigation and let others improve on it.

Now if you think the categories are incorrect and should be broken down even more by scientific names or conventional names. well I'll leave it to experts in this field like yourself to decide that out as I'm not the best person to ask about this. But I can understand where your getting at and it sounds reasonable.

I do create templates based on categories which have been stable for ages. Do you still any issues with it? or you want to create some templates as well?

Visik (talk) 01:42, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I just had a look at the WPPLANTS which you are a member of and to see if there are standard guides for navbox templates. I only found the article guide which is on Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants/Template. On the question on italics or just using pop ups to hide the common genus name. let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks.Visik (talk) 02:21, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok, that's what I suspected - that the lists come from the existing articles in categories. Now I wonder about your opinion on the appropriateness of these lists. The following would be my argument against creating and including them in articles. Not all species are represented in those categories, so your lists are incomplete. I would think you would want to include all species, even those redlinked ones. But then you approach problems of which taxonomic arrangement of the genus or family you want to follow. What if not every existing article was categorized properly? What do you do with large genera that have entirely too many species to list (Clematis has around 300 species)? What function are these templates performing that's not already accomplished by categories and the more carefully created lists of species or lists of genera? To be honest, I usually find these templates to be cumbersome and generally regard them as clutter on articles. Is there a utility to these kinds of templates that I'm overlooking?

This is the way I've been doing it and seems to work best:

We have an alphabetical, sortable table of List of Drosera species and a corresponding list sorted by how the genus is arranged by infrageneric taxa: Taxonomy of Drosera.

Each Drosera article links to both lists in the See also section, e.g. Drosera erythrorhiza.

Each Drosera article is also categorized in Category:Drosera, sorted by the specific epithet.

Common name redirects are categorized in Category:Drosera species by common name and synonyms of the taxa are categorized in Category:Drosera by synonymy.

Thus, there would be no need for an additional template at the bottom of every article, as it would duplicate info in the two lists and the one main category. And specifically since you are just pulling the content from the existing categories, I would suggest these are superfluous to the category.

Oh, and as for italics in templates, it is standard practice to always italicize taxa at the rank of genus and below, regardless of where they appear. So yes, taxa should be italicized in the templates. I would love to hear your thoughts on my points above, especially my assertion that this kind of template reproduces the effort found in the list articles and categories. Cheers, Rkitko ^(talk) 15:50, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Rkitko.

Thank you for your candid thoughts about the templates. I can understand from your angle your looking at and from your background as a trained scientist who has a considerable history in editing scientific plant articles on WP.

The categories are not comprehensive as you are right. Categories and navbox templates have different purpose but overlap in some functions such as providing related information. Categories put articles in specific categories making it easier to look for information if you know where to look for it. Navbox templates are easier to navigate (visible) there to help new or helpful readers who can spot the related article easier and hopefully improve the chances the article will get updated and improved. I am willing to the bet this is the case as I have met User:Jonkerz and he has updated articles which I have created templates for specifically by updating the redirects to wikicommons for further images related to the specific article and article edits. (e.g. [1] - Potentilla related articles) So the utility is, new editors who are not familiar with categories or the ins and ends will be able to jump to a related article using a navbox, in addition improve the probability the article will get updated. I've seen some articles which have been left untouched for months or even years e.g. [2] . I very much doubt new readers would understand how to use an category unless they click on it.

Yes it would be nice to be comprehensive to add redlinked articles in the templates. But I do find them horrible to look at and I am not convince it will increase the chances the article will be created. Let me give you an example, I created a template called Template:Visa Requirements and others decide to put redlinked articles up. I haven't tracked if the articles have been created, just check then and there still more than a dozen redlinked articles which makes it incomplete.

The beauty of WP articles and templates regardless of WP project creed, all articles or associated pages start out as building blocks. Nothing is near complete unless its a FA article or been worked up close to a FA or GA status. Templates like articles are building blocks to start with something as a foundation and then it gets built up just like lego. I am convince navbox templates create more visibility (of other related articles) than categories and may spur editors to click on related article and improve on it.

I don't see templates as a reproduction of the list of species article. The list is a list for those who are familiar and know how to get to them. New readers wouldn't have a clue. Not all the articles have the see also section linked comprehensively at all. e.g. Drosera nidiformis doesn't have a see also section to List of Drosera species. Same with Drosera capillaris and Drosera filiformis.

For Clematis, the example you use, if there are over 300 species and assume they all get created and put in the category. The category would need to be broken down to the 19 sections and 9 sub generas specified in the article.

Obviously, I won't be creating templates for 1 or 2 species in a genera as it would be pointless unless it helps with the visibility of the article and improve the chances the article will get updated. Common sense is needed as in obviously a genera with 3 or more species will be more visible using a navbox template to let them know its there.

Navbox templates introduces a one click link rather than multiple clicks using the infobox or the category. Such as going to an article Actaea (plant), you can see the template {{Ranunculaceae genera}} and you can immediately see it is part of Ranunculaceae genera and its related articles. Using the infobox at the top of the article, you have to click through the Ranunculaceae to see all the related article and then another click to choose your specific genus. More effort and more time consumed for the new readers or readers unfamiliar with the topic.

Rkitko, On the topic of using Italics. I have no problems using italics to highlight the taxa. But I need hardwritten rules to a specific wikiproject policy or in the WPPLANTS area. I know you said it is very common in articles and in the scientific community anecdotally, but in templates, it needs to be specifically hard written somewhere as a guideline. The reason is, a few years down the track, this conversation will definitely come up with another editor or editors and I don't think its convincing to them by referring to this conversation as they would want it be in some policy or Wikiproject guidelines. Visik (talk) 02:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, ok, you found a few of the Drosera articles I haven't gotten to yet! ;-) It's still a work in progress. I still have two major sections of the genus to go and I've been sprucing up the existing articles as I pass over them, so the few you found are by no means an indication of the larger picture and do not invalidate my general argument.

In most cases where I've seen navboxes, e.g. {{botany}}, I would agree that they perform a fundamentally different function from the category since not all of those articles are ever categorized together. But here you are reproducing a single category as a navbox without any additional information. And I might say they could be seen as misleading since they leave out red links to species we don't have articles on yet (I except many people will find them and wonder why they only list a few species in that genus). I would also disagree that navboxes are easier to navigate. In the case of our plant taxa categories, a well-constructed category will be sorted by the species epithet. Lists of species, if they exist, will be prominently linked to from the genus or family taxobox. And I doubt it helps readers find related articles better than they could before, since if you're looking for a species you know the hierarchy and will ultimately look to the higher taxa article (genus, family) for information on the other species or genera in that taxon. Contrary to your point above, I contend that unpolished navboxes will only serve to confuse the reader. The implication in {{Clematis}} is that these are all the species found in the genus Clematis and we know that to be utterly false. I understand wiki philosophy that each template and article is always a work-in-progress, but I don't think these unfinished ones are producing any benefit and are just making the page unnecessarily cluttered at the bottom.

Regarding italics for taxa, it's not only in the manual of style guideline, it's also strongly encouraged that we also italicize article titles in the WP:FLORA naming convention. You can point any dissenters there, but I doubt you'll have any since this is so widely followed. It's not just an anecdote, it's the required practice for any scientific journal you want to publish in, any other encyclopedia, and every external manual of style you look at (Chicago, MLA, etc.).

Regarding the above commentary on navboxes, I'm only one editor voicing a concern. What do you think about asking some of the other members of WP:PLANTS what they think? I respect their opinions and if the majority see no problem with the templates that reproduce category information, I'll leave well-enough alone. Thoughts? Rkitko ^(talk) 20:07, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Rkitko, sorry for the late reply. Been on a wikibreak. Had to deal with with some stuff in real life. I have read what you wrote. Although we have different positions on templates. You see it as clutter in some articles and I see them as a benefit. Look, I'm not fussed either way. I have stop creating the templates basically to take a step back and also work on other areas in wikipedia. Plus, I can't see any value in adding more templates.

Thank you for your advice on Italizing and giving me a platform to explain just in case if (hope not) come across hardcore editors who would be difficult to convince. Yeah it would be nice to go and ask for others in WPPLANT community for their views on templates. I guess because I'm not going to have the time to dedicate to a full discussion and editing in this sphere. I'll move on.

Rkitko, as always, thank you for your cordial feedback and helpful discussion. --Visik (talk) 02:37, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

List of townships of Anhui

Hi, can you translate this? By the way it was I who started the pushpin maps for China, Xinjiang, Tibet and Sichuan. If they can be translated I'll probably start articles on them all.Dr. Blofeld 08:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi Doc. I've seen your work around WPCHINA and other places. Keep it up. Fantastic articles. I've also worked on a few articles you created as well :P Visik (talk) 09:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Doc, I think the translation is finished. I think you had help from others as well. Article needs a bit of clean up to change them into red internal links which is ready for you to create articles. Visik (talk) 05:41, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Excellent my friend. Thanks! I'd like to gradually create the other lists so I would greatly appreciate your help translating. Eventually I want a template created for each county of China like on Chinese wiki and to have the townships and notable landmarks listed within them. Its a mammoth task but I can at least make a start on it. Dr. Blofeld 09:08, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually I think i'll create prefecture template like Template:Anqing. Its more comprehensive that way. If you could find me a rleiable source, preferrably a government source in Chinese with population and area data I'll start them. I'll cleanup the rest and make the other prefecture templates of Anhui later.Dr. Blofeld 10:04, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Keep up the great job

		The PRC Barnstar
		for major effort in editing PRC related pages
		this WikiAward was given to Visik by Hongdx (talk) on 15:12, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Video game companies of the United States

Template:Video game companies of the United States has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 15:10, 17 October 2010 (UTC)