User talk:UnpetitproleX

Please do not use
gendered pronouns
for me.
Normally I would ask you not
to do so the first time you
do it, but because of this
the message is also here.

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Happy editing! I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 18:38, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Unpetitprole

I noticed that you were trying to add a notice to your old account @Unpetitprole but that the edit filter was blocking you so I have added it on your behalf. Hope this helps, DigitalChutney (talk) 18:55, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

@DigitalChutney: Thank you very much. I have also archived the talk page and added a notice on the talk page, I hope that is fine. —UnpetitproleX (talk) 18:58, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Your welcome! Good luck with your new account, DigitalChutney (talk) 19:03, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

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Thank you. This is the only time I have copied content, since this is the first draft page I’ve created. I’ll provide attribution for it.

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November 2021

Please do not introduce incorrect information into articles. Your edits could be interpreted as vandalism and have been reverted. If you believe the information you added was correct, please cite references or sources or discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them again. If you would like to experiment, use your sandbox. Wildhorse3 (talk) 00:10, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

The information added by me at Daf is neither incorrect, nor unsourced.--UnpetitproleX (talk) 00:34, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

November 2021

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You have been involved with Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus for only three days, and you are rehashing all the issues that have been discussed in depth in the past. But you are raising the discussion to high pitch. Please follow the normal decorum required of all participants. You know that the topic is contentious, and you know about ARBIPA sanctions. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:06, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the message. Please do not accuse me of “raising the discussion to high pitch.” I’ve been having the discussion at a very normal pitch. It is me on the other hand, who is being threatened with administrative action on the talk page and then these threats are being scrubbed out by the user who threatened me. Thanks again. UnpetitproleX (talk) 12:16, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

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Kashmir

Hello, I'm Fowler&fowler. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Kashmir have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse. per WP:BRD please make a case for your bold removal of text that has been in the article for many years and thereafter garner a consensus for it. You have also been making remarks about motivations in edit summaries. @RegentsPark, El C, Abecedare, SpacemanSpiff, Vanamonde93, DrKay, Bishonen, and Doug Weller:. Best regards Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:21, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

After deleting large amounts of text and refs (‘BOLD’?), and then completely deleting several sections (‘BOLD’?) per my “excellent suggestion”—for which I also suggest wider consensus (see talk page discussion)—both cases of “removal of text that has been in the article for many years”, this talk page post with ping to eight admins. UnpetitproleX (talk) 20:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Also, BRD states “Revert an edit if it is not an improvement, and only if you cannot immediately refine it.” But your history of reverting my edits only to then immediately follow up with edits that either follow the same reasoning, or are simple modifications—some to shorten, others to expand my words (but only after first reverting my edit), something that in all possibility is not intentional or in bad faith, has me tired. The usual follow up with addition of refs that support what I am, and then you are, trying to say, is much appreciated. I do not want to point fingers, I’m assuming good faith and ruling out a problem but if there is indeed a problem then please do message me here on my talk page, but preferably without pinging one, two or eight administrators. I’m only trying to improve the articles, which is overwhelmingly clear from my contributions. And judging from your edits, you’re also trying to do the same, which is why I’m forgoing a post on your talk page. UnpetitproleX (talk) 20:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

I have reinstated your edit, which I thought was well done. I disagree with both of you that the history before the Sikh Empire was unnecessary. But I didn't mind that content to be gone because it was poor. If and when I get time, I will be writing new content for the sections that got deleted. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:16, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

+1.

And the deletion was out-of-process. Unpetitprole was explicit that such a deletion must be guided by local consensus. TrangaBellam (talk) 12:58, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

And might I point out, it all snowballed from this rather minor and uncontroversial edit of mine (minor in my opinion, open to examination by others).

In any case, I’d be willing to argue in favour of keeping the article limited largely to 19th century and after, if such a discussion takes place (on the talk page of the article, not here on my talk page). UnpetitproleX (talk) 14:02, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

FPC

Just as a warning, I think FPC is in one of its slow periods. I've had a lot of images fail that really surprised me, and I think it's just everyone's a bit too busy to vote on everything.

Don't feel discouraged. This happens every so often. Best thing to do is just make a list of things to renominate, and... not stop your nominations, because FPC being dead doesn't help anything - but slow them up a bit.

Hope that helps! Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.8% of all FPs} 16:51, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Adam Cuerden: thanks for the words of encouragement, hope you're having a good day! Might I ask though what is this particularly about? Have I made too many nominations? There are currently four active nominations by me (two of which I made today, one earlier nom closes in a few hours and I don’t plan on making any new ones until half of the current ones are closed) which I will admit might be too many. I tend to nominate pictures at once, will try to make them gradually over time. Thanks, UnpetitproleX (talk) 17:04, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Wait, I see what you meant. Sorry, thought this was a “warning” warning, I understand now that its meant to be guidance rather than censure. Your advice is much appreciated. UnpetitproleX (talk) 17:09, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

And encouragement. As I said, it's a slow month, you're fairly new to FPC, and I don't want you getting discouraged, you know? Sorry if I phrased it badly. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.8% of all FPs} 17:16, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much :) UnpetitproleX (talk) 17:26, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Kee Monastery Spiti Valley

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Kashmir Infobox removal

Hello user, UnpetitproleX
I have noticed that you reverted my infobox article that originally had crossed post-work 5 edits, i believe this edit was not only biased but a unformal way of reverting it.
You could've told the moderators or administrators of the Wiki article atleast. NameIsShaheer (talk) 16:54, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @NameIsShaheer: the reason I removed the infobox, as I state in my edit summary, was that both the population figures and the ethnic groups column were incorrect/insufficient. Looking at it again, the countries column was also incorrect, and there was also a column containing the text “demographics1_info2 = [[Pashto]]<br/>{{small|Minorities: [[Persian language|Persian]], [[Urdu]], [[Hindko]], [[Balochi language|Balochi]], [[Ormuri]], [[Parachi language|Parachi]], [[Pashayi languages]], [[Nuristani languages]]}}” that did not appear because it did not have a column title, I believe it might be leftover from wherever you copied the infobox from. If you would like to add the infobox, I would suggest you make a post on Talk:Kashmir. Regards, UnpetitproleX (talk) 17:39, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Set:Monsoon in Western Ghats

Just to note, you do need to update your own vote too. Also, you might want to drop a talk page message to all the voters. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.8% of all FPs} 22:44, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up! Will do. UnpetitproleX (talk) 22:48, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Set:Monsoon in Western Ghats

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Poor approach

If you wish to nuke an article covering 3000 casualties, hanging by the coattails of WP:N is obviously not the way to go about it. You need to check the levels of coverage in contemporary newspapers, emphasize on the non-unique nature of the events, and write a foolproof nomination statement. I sympathize with your stance but it is wise to accept the blizzard and move on. TrangaBellam (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I understand. As I said on the nom, it was foolish of me to not initiate a discussion on the talk page prior. I do plan on creating the train massacres article, and merge it into that. You are welcome to suggest literature that deals specifically with the trains. Thanks. UnpetitproleX (talk) 21:33, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

It is not his fault. He assumed that everybody would know something about the scale of partition violence. But they don't. It is unfathomable. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:52, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Bakarwal Article

Hi, Could you please explain which sections of the Bakarwal Genetics section are problematic ? Thanks TomHarry2023 (talk) 09:26, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is written in summary style, with multiple reliable sources to determine due weight. A large section written entirely with one source, one that’s not widely cited nor finds its content in (m)any tertiary sources, is highly WP:UNDUE in a compact overview article about an ethnic group. UnpetitproleX (talk) 09:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

At best it warrants not more than one line summarising what the nature article says, though even that may be too much. UnpetitproleX (talk) 09:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

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Two past accounts

Per admin RegentsPark's post at Talk:Srinagar, you should declare on your user page that you have had two past accounts (by name) which you had operated at the same time. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:02, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm glad you are admitting the truth, that Pankykh (talk · contribs) was you, albeit with elaborate rationalization, after it was dragged out of you. I have a memory like an elephant's. I hope you won't trifle with me lightly in the future. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 00:48, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Discussion from Talk:Srinagar

Off-topic discussion moved from Talk:Srinagar by me (UnpetitproleX) per WP:TALKOFFTOPIC. I personally do not wish to continue the discussion, but since it has been closed there, it is here for anyone to add to if they want.

I have asked you before and I’m asking you again not to assume my gender. Do not continue to use your assumed gender pronouns for me. Thanks. UnpetitproleX (talk) 18:12, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Please read Carol Gilligan before you make that argument. We have three adult daughters and none are slouches. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Please read WP:EDPRONOUNS. I have politely asked you once before, and I am asking you a second time now, to not assume my gender and pronouns. UnpetitproleX (talk) 21:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I did not do it knowingly. I'll try not to do it again, but like I said, please read Carol Gilligan (whom I last ran into in a Sainsbury's in Cambridge, England, in 1993) in particular her In a Different Voice.

Again, we have three adult daughters and none is a slouch. The lady doth protest too much, methinksFowler&fowler«Talk» 19:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

It is hard for me to believe that you’re not doing it intentionally, given that I the last time I asked you not to do it you called my request "garbage". You may need to update your understanding of gender. And congratulations on reproducing having children. UnpetitproleX (talk) 18:01, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@UnpetitproleX: How do you know our daughters are biological and not adopted? You keep making inordinately rude remarks. Please stop the nonsense. Remove those pathetic remarks. I don't mean strike. Pronto Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I don’t see how "congratulations" is an inordinately (or at all) rude response to somebody who is repeatedly telling me they have "three adult daughters." But I can see how repeatedly telling somebody you have daughters who are not slouches and implying through that they are a slouch and they cannot be woman after they have asked you not to use gendered pronouns for them, is rude. Also given your elephant-like memory, how did you forget not to use gendered pronouns for me after I explicitly asked you not to, but insult me while at it just as you did the first time? UnpetitproleX (talk) 13:04, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Please do not remove my responses like you just did. UnpetitproleX (talk) 13:19, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

No not strike, or insouciantly and immaturely rewording, "Congratulations on reproducing" to "Congratulations on having children" in your edit

Please remove them altogether. @El C, RegentsPark, Abecedare, and Vanamonde93: what is Wikipedia becoming? Longstanding productive editors have to put up with relentless immature bickering by unknowns? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:03, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Pinging @UnpetitproleX: as well. This is the giddy limit. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:04, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Moving forward

I’ve been dealing with the recent incidents as I usually do, by trying to ignore the harassment (this and more) and focusing on other things, both irl and here. In terms of the latter, I wrote the wikipedia articles for two of my favourite contemporary Kashmiri singers (him and her; may they both flourish). If I don’t get too busy with real life commitments, I will expand and update the articles of the other artistes (her, her, her, her and others) whose works I enjoy, before I return to writing that requires more scholarly reading. UnpetitproleX (talk) 18:23, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Kashmir

I am sorry you had to bear repetitive foul-mouthed abuse on Wikipedia. The admins are always there to bring down the sword of justice upon such perpetrators (if you really need to > ANI).

If the current rfc passes (the conspicuous lack of participation in which is concerning, pinging @Abecedare to somehow resuscitate the convo with their admin powers), can you start an rfc on replacing the term "Indian-administered" with "Indian", thereby transferring complete sovereignty of the union territories to India on the backing of Google Ngram and Britannica. Nations childishly lay claims on foreign territory and this should not erase the ownership of a nation over its lands, unless of course, a territory and its people are recognised as an independent state by the majority of UN membership (e.g., Palestine) and hence, there is a dispute of government authority over the region (e.g., Israeli-Palestinian conflict). Also, I don't mind the Kashmir conflict/dispute being mentioned in the broader regions/union territories as done in Britannica. Fayninja (talk) 14:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

X-administered is the current WP:NPOV wording for the first-level administrative subdivisions. Of course, the Kashmir conflict is fundamentally different from the Israel-Palestine one. I’m not sure another rfc is on the cards for me. An rfc on Talk:Himalayas (now archived) which gained rough consensus in favour of my proposal, was never actually implemented, partly because the incessant bullying forced me to take some time off. Abecedare said that in case the rfc doesn’t provide us with a resolution, the 2019 wording is the status quo we go to. That is version A in the rfc. UnpetitproleX (talk) 14:46, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@Fayninja: As for the so far low participation, the RfC can be neutrally advertised, I guess. Acceptable avenues for such advertising would be the talk pages of Srinagar, Leh etc and J&K, G-B, Ladakh etc. Other than that, a ping to those that participated in the 2019 discussion. That’s the most that can be done. UnpetitproleX (talk) 14:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It's all up to you, boss! I am a little confused about territorial disputes. Either it's me or others that don't understand the difference between sovereignty and claim. If a nation claims a foreign territory, the claimant does not get any military or political power to govern the claimed land (no sovereignty). There is a conflict of power over the West Bank, and so the question of sovereignty undoubtedly arises there but the union territories are legit Indian union territories just like Dadra and Nagar Haveli and Daman and Diu with all power exercised through state institutions. I hope regions of the former Junagadh state don't become "Indian-administered" because of Pakistan's claim. Funny thing, the Australians seem confused about this as well. Fayninja (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@Fayninja: Hmm. And of course. No wonder it all began after this. UnpetitproleX (talk) 16:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I have implemented your rfc on the Himalayas, keep an eye on it. Fayninja (talk) 03:39, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

References

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Personal pronouns

Hi, I have seen your comments at AE and appreciate that you are offended, hurt even.

Language evolves and, believe me, as we get older (ie: me!) it can be difficult adapting to new usages. Especially so if we aren't much exposed to them in our day-to-day lives. Terms like reaching out, terf, woke, "gender fluid", the "be kind" ethos when used as a put-down, the "cancel culture" from the same people preaching kindness etc leave me cold, I'm afraid. At best, they irritate me, at worst, I really don't know why they exist. I'm sure that if I worked around or lived with teenagers then I would have a better grasp, or if I lived in Brighton, UK, or California. However, for all my inward spluttering and confusion - and indeed for my occasional rant amongst friends - I do recognise change happens, is inevitable.

Tolerance is a two-way street. Both "sides" need to adapt and to accept that none of us are perfect, all of us different. And if one side doesn't adapt/accept then just try to be the better person. I have had to do the latter for most of my 60 years, being bullied and discriminated against regularly, and if not that then having to put up with people who won't or can't accept that my disability is an issue. I am the better person, and if things cannot actually be fixed then at least I can take comfort from that.

I recognise you are offended and that to you it is A Big Deal. It isn't to me and, in truth, while I recognise it is for you, I don't pretend to really understand it. I know a few knights, baronets and peers who don't care whether they are addressed as Sir or Lord etc, which is just as well because I rarely do! But to the best of my ability, and potentially failing memory, I will try to refer to you as you prefer to be addressed. It might help, however, if you added your preferred pronouns to your signature, if only as an aide memoire to fuddy-duddies like me. Or would that be like painting a target on your back? I really don't know: it's a strange thing to witness change and it can genuinely be confusing, frightening even to not be sure if saying x or y is now deemed offensive.

The above is well-intentioned. I guess I have to hope you can see that, through all the verbosity. - Sitush (talk) 13:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

@Sitush: Thanks for the comment. I was hoping my statement there was not confusing, but if it was, I should clarify: the issue is not merely any inadvertent use of gendered pronouns (I’m more than willing to not assume bad intentions there, and did not) as much as the reaction to my requests for gender neutral pronouns. The deluge of condescending and dismissive commentary, and insulting personal attacks, that followed the requests is a big deal (to me, and to those who intervened, I assume). I don’t wish to repeat all those comments, but, at least to my judgment, most, if not all of them, were uncivil and offensive. That said, I certainly do not see any ill intent behind your advice—it is welcome. UnpetitproleX (talk) 10:49, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

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Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus

Hi UnpetitproleX, sorry for not responding to the multiple pings you gave from the discussions of this page. It is not possible to fix the lead by directly editing it. Rather, the body needs to be fixed first, which was mostly written by a single editor using Kashmiri Pandit sources, who eventually got blocked. Some of the content in the body is good but with poor quality sources. The rest is not very good. I suggest you focus on improving the body as well as the cited sources. We can eventually get back to the lead after the body is in good shape.

You cannot ignore the sources currently cited in the lead. Rather the multiple viewpoints need to be covered in the body in an WP:NPOV manner. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:45, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: I have already read most of the sources cited in the lead; Ganguly, Zutshi, Hussain, even Kanjwal. Which is how I can tell what parts from the available literature have been omitted. Prominent scholars of Kashmir such as Chowdhary and Behera seem to have been banned and can't be cited, apparently. I will make a post there soon, I have unfortunately not been able to find the time to do so yet.

As for the body, it is difficult to edit the page in any meaningful way when all edits by me are being reverted in a WP:OWN manner with multitudes of WP:ASPERSIONS at the talk page. UnpetitproleX (talk) 20:15, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

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(t · c) buidhe 02:40, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Masrat Zahra

Your edit summary is very unclear on how MOS:INDICSCRIPT applies to a script that does not belong to the family. Other articles not having an Urdu name in infobox is really a very bad reason likewise. It could to wise to have at the least some kind of additional sentence at the given section of MOS:INDIA but that would require an RfC which I really suggest to be initiated. I mean, MOS:INDICSCRIPT doesn't seriously mention "all non-Latin scripts" but just links "Indic scripts" (which nowhere mentions Urdu or so) and briefly referring them to in the brackets as "Non-latin". My understand is based on the same. It doesn't say "all", and it doesn't say "inclusive of Perso-Arabic/Urdu or so". The only good point you made is "all India related articles", that's fine but my question still stands. Best regards, ─ Aafī (talk) 18:44, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

I mean I was awaiting a better explanation. I'd appreciate if you could add more. Thank you. ─ Aafī (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

@Aafi: The explanation really is simple, the WP:NOINDICSCRIPT rule has expanded to include all non-Latin scripts over the years. Also, after a quick glance over the original 2011 discussion, it seems to me that the discussion treated Urdu, written in Perso-Arabic, to be within the scope of the discussion and vote. UnpetitproleX (talk) 20:10, 20 March 2024 (UTC)