User talk:SpringSummerAutumn

Hello, SpringSummerAutumn! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. We're so glad you're here! If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you would like to play around with your new Wiki skills, the sandbox is for you. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 08:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Suggest reading

Please take the time to understand WP:SPAM, WP:COI, Fair Use and you may also find some assistance in referring to WP:MOS. Also many of the aources you are referring to raise concerns of Reliability advertorials and directories are not reliable sourcesGnangarra 13:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks and congratulations on actually taking the above to heart and modifying your contributions. Sadly, we have many new contributors come along whose only purpose here is to promote themselves or their product or service, and it is exceedingly rare for such users to turn over a new leaf and actually take an interest in writing a great encyclopedia. You seem to be an exception to that. Keep up the good work. Hesperian 07:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Do you have any advice you can give for starting out? Not really. Only not to be shy about asking questions, and don't worry too much about making mistakes. Hesperian 11:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Please do not bite the newcomers

Am new to Wikipedia so am slowly sorting through all the many regulations to make things as accurate as possible with aim for NPOV, converting direct copy from books into enclyopedic format (using correct wording and rephrasing what is not dry and enclyopedic enough + making sure things do not violate copywright and don't sound like an advertisment, don't sound like a wine guide, etc...). Am bound to make mistakes although i consider that vital to learning how to become a better editor and contributor. I'm finding one of my major challenges is having to reword things although written in reputable 3rd party sources the language doesn’t always fit guidelines probably. Although have adopted the idea "how would an academic journal present this?"

Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers: "Wikipedia articles are improved through the hard work of regular editors, but also through numerous anonymous contributions made by newcomers. Remember: all of us were new editors at Wikipedia once, and in some ways (such as when editing an article on a topic outside our usual scope) even the most experienced among us are still newcomers.

New members are prospective contributors and are therefore Wikipedia's most valuable resource. We must treat newcomers with kindness and patience — nothing scares potentially valuable contributors away faster than hostility. It is difficult for a newcomer to be completely familiar with all of the policies, guidelines, and community standards of Wikipedia before they start editing. Even the most experienced editors may need a gentle reminder from time to time.

• Understand that newcomers are both necessary for and valuable to the community. By empowering newcomers, we can improve the diversity of knowledge, perspectives, and ideals on Wikipedia, thereby preserving its neutrality and integrity as a resource and ultimately increasing its value. In fact, it has been found that newcomers are responsible for adding the majority of lasting content to Wikipedia (i.e., substantive edits): while insiders and administrators are responsible for a large bulk of total edits, these often involve tweaking, reverting, and rearranging content.[1]
• Remember, our motto and our invitation to the newcomer is be bold. We have a set of rules, standards, and traditions, but they must not be applied in such a way as to thwart the efforts of newcomers who take that invitation at face value. A newcomer brings a wealth of ideas, creative energy, and experience from other areas that, current rules and standards aside, have the potential to better our community and Wikipedia as a whole. It may be that the rules and standards need revising or expanding; perhaps what the newcomer is doing "wrong" may ultimately improve Wikipedia. Observe for a while and, if necessary, ask what the newcomer is trying to achieve before concluding that their efforts are substandard or that they are simply "wrong."
• If a newcomer seems to have made a small mistake (e.g., forgetting to put book titles in italics), try to correct it yourself: do not slam the newcomer. Remember, this is a place where anyone may edit and therefore it is in every sense each person's responsibility to edit, rather than to criticize or supervise others."

'Raw Thought: Who Writes Wikipedia?': http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/whowriteswikipedia

Making more wikipedian's

"Many people create a new article, only to see it get deleted after an AfD discussion where random Wikipedians try to think up negative things to say about it. For someone who thought they were donating their time to help the project, neither response is particularly encouraging. I’m not saying that we should change our policies or automatically keep everything a newcomer decides to add so we don’t hurt their feelings. But we do need to think more about how to enforce policies without turning valuable newcomers away, how we can educate them instead of alienating them." - http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/morewikipedians

Margaret River (wine region)

before any criticism you may have please take into consideration the above. Also note other wine regions already established on wikipedia.

• Hunter Valley wine country - poor quality lacks references
• McLaren Vale - notice no references at all
• Clare Valley - one reference
• Margaret River, Western Australia - lacked balanced write up + lacked citations. surf region, wine region and region in general all into one although considering Margaret River is a major wine region known internationally have developed seperate page for it.
• Margaret River (wine region) - text is from cited books and other 3rd party references (using correct wording and rephrasing wording which is not in a dry and enclyopedic format + to not breach copywright). List of wineries gives balanced example of listing all wineries of region which is direct copy from reference instead of listing a few ie: "some varietals have achieved considerable fame: the 'Leeuwin Estate' Art Series Chardonnay for example is one of the finest of this varietal in the world." "In recent years a number of small, independent producers have appeared bearing contemporary labels and brands. Some of these include 'wine by brad', 'Flying Fish' and 'Preveli Wines'."
• have begun a West Australian wine article (still under construction obviously) see: New South Wales wine, South Australian wine, Victorian wine, Tasmanian wine

All articles I do I aim for NPOV, articles are free of original research with only direct copy straight from 3rd party references with most from books: international wine encyclopaedias/wine atlas. Want to learn how to create a good article. As Australian wine is an area of expertise that I can find sources for it seems the best fit to work on articles that I have an understanding on. In the meantime I am still familiarizing myself with all wikipedia policies to take into consideration.

Your phrase "direct copy straight from references wording" makes me somewhat worried. Have you read the WP:COPYVIO policy? Tomas e (talk) 13:02, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Australian wine articles

Hello, nice to see people working on wine-related articles. However, your articles, while referenced, are way too promotional in tone. Look at the first sentence of the Margaret River (wine region), for example: "Margaret River is one of the most immediately recognised wine regions of Australia by both domestic and international audiences." That's not how an encyclopedic entry should start, following WP:NPOV and WP:LEAD! I recommend Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a wine guide for reading! Regards, Tomas e (talk) 12:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Tomas, Thanks for your input and the useful links to guides I will read up more on Wikipedia’s encyclopaedic wording regulations and some of the other guides/regulations. That quote you mentioned was straight out of James Hallidays 2009 The Australian Wine Encylopedia from Hardie Grant Books. Due to quoting the reference in footnotes I don't think copyright will be an issue. Although I have deleted the quote you mentioned and several other wording that i found that was a bit dodgey. If you spot any other wording on the page that you think is out of place feel free to notify me. It’s not my wording but from the books so sometimes need to be looked over and cleared up. Want to be able to contribute although I still am a bit of a newbie and definately have a few things to learn, do you have any key advice for someone starting out? How long have you been contributing with Wikipedia?SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 16:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC) I'm finding one of my major challenges is having to reword things although written in reputable 3rd party sources the language doesn’t always fit guidelines probably.SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 16:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

If it helps, my trick for figuring out wording is "how would an academic journal present this?" It does come out sounding a bit dry, but it generally works. A lot of my stuff is on obscure geographical and political topics so I concede this is probably easier to write about in such a form, although there's the moments where I'm writing and trying not to laugh, such as Mundingburra state by-election, 1996#Other_events. Orderinchaos 00:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello, SpringSummerAutumn. You have new messages at Tomas e's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Australian Wine zone

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Australian Wine zone, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.wineaustralia.com/Australia/Default.aspx?tabid=273. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 07:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

This Article is being discussed on the talk page for the article: Talk:Australian_Wine_zone

• Please refer all comments to that page. - SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 02:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

More copyvio?

Hello SpringSummerAutumn, could I ask you to have a second look at all the articles you have created, with the copyvio policy in mind? Looking at articles such as Concours Mondial de Bruxelles and Langton’s Classification of Australian Wine, they contain sentences which look like could very well have been lifted from somewhere else. Tomas e (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Australia’s First Families of Wine

Hi and welcome to wikipedia, nice to have someone working on Australian wine!! I have seen you start working on especially australian wine pages, and seen you add lots of text about Australia’s First Families of Wine to multiple pages, I think this is a bit WP:ADS, I have not done anything about it, but now after you added the same to Henschke, I reverted it from there. I do not think that it is resonable to have 9 lines of text talking about this Australia’s First Families of Wine in a small article like that,it is questionable in my opinion if Australia’s First Families of Wine would survive an WP:AFD, but I normally do not list pages that is seams to be truthful and does exists, but we do not need the same text in 10 pages again and again. Please read WP:ADS, WP:POV and generally try to make the pages you update more ensyclopeadic, and not so sales related. --Stefan ^talk 08:18, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, also see [2] on how you can use the ref name to not need to copy the links so many times. Makes it much easier to read the text also. Also, you do not normally need that many ref links, especially not on a page like that. --Stefan ^talk 09:31, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I will edit Australia’s First Families of Wine if you wish, but it means that I will take away lots of the text. --Stefan ^talk 09:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

No editing is not removing content, but the page as it is now have to much text, that is not in line with WP:POV and WP:ADS. It reads like a newspaper or a ad, not like a encyclopedia. I tried to read it but it was hard to rewrite since I do not have the first 2 sources, and the online ones did not say much. --Stefan ^talk 09:58, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Done some updates now, not sure if I messed up the lead with respect to the references, check and see if you think it is OK and revert what you do not agree with. The Mission statement is still not very good, it is very hard to see what is a quote and what is not. --Stefan ^talk 10:33, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

See WP:TPO, you should never revert a none vandal remark like that on a talk page, revert your revert and write what you said in the comment as a answer instead. --Stefan ^talk 11:29, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Not sure about if there is a rule, think it is OK to take it away now. --Stefan ^talk 11:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Another copyvio problem

See Talk:West Australian wine#Copyvio. –Moondyne 14:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Moondyne, I intentionally transferred several parts direct from copy as that was first step without editing as have placed page under construction was planning to reword as second step. I prefer to do the articles editing in stages, little by little i find this the easiest way, if needed i have copyied the source to my sandbox to reword in there when i have the time so if it's an issue can be deleted, although due to this being a editing community then it won't be free for others to reword and tidy up but if it remains still listed as under construction it is available for others to tidy up now that i have brought it available to wikipedia. SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 06:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

And another ...

Great Southern (wine region). At least some of it is copied word for word from [3]. The style of the rest suggests further unmodified plagiarism. I think the best approach with these is that we delete and start all over again. What do you think? –Moondyne 14:10, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Have placed article as under construction again, i have copied source to my sandbox if nessisary to delete, although best idea is to reword now it is available for all to edit for public view. SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 07:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

SpringSummerAutumn I am certain your intentions are honourable and you have acted in good faith. However copyright is a very serious issue and placing an {{underconstruction}} tag on it now after its been in the article space for several weeks only obfuscates the problem. Although WP is a collaborative project you cannot count on others to sort this out for you by identifying what is and isn't plagiarised text and then rewriting on your behalf. Its your responsibility to ensure that only "free" text is published in the first instance. To avoid these issues I strongly suggest you develop the articles more fully in your sandbox or a separate user subpage before publishing. Ensure any copy-pasted text has been completely removed before doing so—you must use your own words, not those of another writer. I've tagged them both for speedy deletion. If you need to recover any parts contact the deleting admin. –Moondyne 12:43, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Australian wine lists

Hi, I noticed you were quite active on the Aussie wine articles and I guess you're probably aware of the recent AfD that included List of wineries in the Barossa Valley. Discussion of the best way to present wineries in list format is ongoing at WT:WikiProject Wine and a recent proposal there suggests merging all wineries lists into outline-style structured lists by country, starting with Australia. Hey, it's a cool place to start! Some early input would be great while we're in formative stages. Thanks. mikaul^talk 21:31, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

re Template:Wines‎‎

Hi SpringSummerAutumn. I'm guessing you may have removed your comment on Template talk:Wines‎‎ because you found the answer to the question, but just to be sure, the 'autocollapse' function will show a template in its expanded form when it is alone, and be collapsed if there is an adjacent template. Cheers, MURGH ^disc. 11:38, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi

You might not realise but your sandboxes have items with fully operational categories - when creating or improving articles it is usually better to disengage the brackets while you are tinkering in your own space - viz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wine_regions_of_Western_Australia - cheers SatuSuro 07:46, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Its up to you - some people dont seem to bother to see their sub pages lying around in category space - I prefer not when I am creating - no big deal really - but thought i should let you know SatuSuro 07:58, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

An even better way is to simply prefix the category with a colon (:) and add square brackets, as in [[:Category:Wine regions of Western Australia]]. This yields an internal (and uncategorised) link as Category:Wine regions of Western Australia. –Moondyne 08:20, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

"Minor" edits

Thank you for your contributions. Please remember to mark your edits as "minor" only if they truly are minor edits. In accordance with Help:Minor edit, a minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. Minor edits consist of things such as typographical corrections, formatting changes, or rearrangement of text without modification of content. Additionally, the reversion of clear-cut vandalism and test edits may be labeled "minor". Thank you. Tomas e (talk) 12:12, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Marchand and burch

The listing "The 1996 vintage of the same wine was ranked as number 16 in the Wine Spectator’s list of the World’s top 100 wines" has been documented in several books and not just one article and i thought would be worthy of inclusion refering to Valid criteria for wine notability: Wikipedia:Notability (wine topics):"Being the subject of multiple articles or profiles in reliable independent secondary sources such as Wine Spectator indicates notable". notablility wine Wikipedia:Notability (wine topics): "Being described in detail by an internationally-influential wine critic such as Robert Parker or wine magazine such as Decanter." had listed several different references from newspapers, well known wine writers et al that mention robert parkers write up of wine. as being a significant event.

Important Wine Project discussion needs input!

Hello, the Wine Project is currently in the process of hammering out a proposed policy relating to Wikipedia:Notability (wine topics). As Wikipedia and its wine coverage continues to grow, the need for a clear, concise guideline on how Wikipedia's notability policies such as WP:CORP, WP:SIGCOV and WP:NOTE relate to wine articles has emerged. Please review the proposed policy and take part in the talk page discussion Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(wine_topics)#Ready_to_go_live.3F. All input and view points are welcomed. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 21:55, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi

I think the over-cat and over link issues which I edited at the great southern article seemed to be the only issues of recent - otherwise - keep up the good work! SatuSuro 04:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

No probs - just make sure you keep up on the WP:RS and keep it concise! cheers SatuSuro 05:06, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Australia's First Families of Wine AFFW Map of Cellar Doors.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Australia's First Families of Wine AFFW Map of Cellar Doors.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:09, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Heart & Soul: Australia's First Families of Wine

The article Heart & Soul: Australia's First Families of Wine has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

book article of unclear notability, lacking independent references, tagged for refs since 2011

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Dialectric (talk) 14:52, 29 July 2016 (UTC)