User talk:Rockstone35/United States

structure[edit]

Rockstone35, thank you for starting a draft to rewrite United States. Is there a precedent for this kind of a project? Should we use the same structure in terms of sections and subsections? I can help provide sources for the history and culture sections and their subsections. إيان (talk) 22:21, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@إيان: I'm not sure if there has ever been a rewrite attempted on such a major article, but there is a category for articles needing rewrites. Your help is definitely appreciated! -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 22:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What Hath God Wrought (1821-1860 source)[edit]

What does everyone here think of using What Hath God Wrought: The Transformation of America, 1815–1848 by Daniel Walker Howe? @إيان: @Moxy: @Rockstone35: @Pizzigs: @C.J. Griffin:

It's widely acknowledged as the best work ever written on the era. KlayCax (talk) 14:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pulitzer-prize winning tome from the Oxford History of the United States—it's a narrative history, but it looks like an excellent source to be used in addition to other sources of similar quality and stature. For this article, which should be written in WP:Summary style, we should be leaning primarily on reputable tertiary sources, especially textbooks and encyclopedias. إيان (talk) 15:16, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes a good source. We should have zero need for any websites for history. As a topic covered by multiple academic disciplines we should only use the best of the best. One problem the article currently has is that it's full of media sites.... that may be reliable sources but do not lead our readers to extensive research material. A large chunk of the article currently looks like it was constructed by enthusiasts by way of a Google search. I am not expert on the whole topic of the country.... thus can only contribute to topic areas I'm familiar with. What is needed is someone like User:Rjensen ( one of our resident historians) who was instrumental in helping me create Bibliography of Canada and its sub pages like Bibliography of Canadian history... to help us with sources. Moxy-

15:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree--the Howe book is superb--probably the #1 for that era in my opinion. However the good books are usually not on line so our users need lists of books and articles that are online even if not as good. Rjensen (talk) 15:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We should definitely use Howe, @Rjensen:. The present article mentions almost nothing between 1800-1860.

Even more shockingly, things like the Missouri Compromise aren't even mentioned! KlayCax (talk) 16:22, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to Howe the main events 1815-1850 = 1) The Second Bank of the United States: Established in 1816, the bank played a crucial role in stabilizing the nation's finances and promoting economic growth. 2) The Erie Canal: Completed in 1825, the canal linked the Great Lakes to the Hudson River and helped to promote trade and settlement in the Midwest. 3) The Tariff of 1828: Also known as the "Tariff of Abominations," this protective tariff sparked tensions between North and South over issues of economic policy and states' rights. 4) The Nullification Crisis: South Carolina's attempt to nullify the Tariff of 1832 raised questions about the balance of power between states and the federal government. 5) The Bank War: President Andrew Jackson's campaign against the Second Bank of the United States highlighted the growing influence of popular democracy in American politics. 6) The Mexican-American War: This conflict, which lasted from 1846 to 1848, resulted in significant territorial gains for the United States, including California, Nevada, Utah, and parts of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Wyoming. 7) The Oregon Trail: This migration route helped to open up the West to settlement and played a significant role in the expansion of the United States. 8) The Seneca Falls Convention: Held in 1848, this gathering of women's rights advocates marked the beginning of the women's suffrage movement and helped to advance the cause of gender equality in America. 9) The Wilmot Proviso: This proposal to ban slavery in any territories acquired from Mexico sparked heated debates over the expansion of slavery and helped to set the stage for the Civil War. 10) The Compromise of 1850: This political agreement sought to resolve tensions over slavery and the admission of new states to the Union, but ultimately failed to prevent the outbreak of the Civil War. Rjensen (talk) 20:42, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! All of that should definitely be added. I'm not sure exactly how we want incorporate that into the article, though. @Rjensen:. KlayCax (talk) 18:38, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and outline[edit]

This project should begin with our collective selection of reputable tertiary sources (encyclopedias, textbooks, etc.)—the best of the best, as Moxy noted—upon which our prose will be based. Toward this goal, I've started a draft page for establishing an outline for the article, with sections and sub-sections to which we will organize our sources. Please help by adding appropriate sources to the appropriate sections. إيان (talk) 15:53, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that looks like a good start. :) @إيان: KlayCax (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Quotations: 1765–1820 and 1820-1861[edit]

Is everyone alright with the two quotations I added in the:

1765-1820:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —Declaration of Independence (July 4, 1776)

and 1820-1861 sections:

...this momentous question, like a fire bell in the night, awakened and filled me with terror. I considered it at once as the knell of the Union. It is hushed, indeed, for the moment. But this is a reprieve only, not a final sentence. A geographical line, coinciding with a marked principle, moral and political, once conceived and held up to the angry passions of men, will never be obliterated; and every new irritation will mark it deeper and deeper. —Thomas Jefferson on the Missouri Compromise (April 22, 1820)

I think both improve the article. KlayCax (talk) 16:27, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]