User talk:Peter238/Archive 8

This page is an archive of past discussions for the period October 2015. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

tard

File:FR-Tard (Gaspésie).ogg

Cześć Peter, it's [tɒːχ] or [tɑɒ̯χ]? Fête Phung (talk) 01:22, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I actually hear [tɑɔ̯], without the rhotic. Peter238 (talk) 01:32, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

...or maybe [ɔ̯] actually is the rhotic. I'm not sure. Peter238 (talk) 01:50, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe the [χ] is very very weak. Fête Phung (talk) 02:00, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

It's definitely not voiceless, so [χ] is not a good transcription. I hear it as a really weak voiced approximant, and since that's how you can describe a vowel, it's best to transcribe it [ɔ̯] (or [ɒ̯], depending on how close you think that vowel is). Peter238 (talk) 02:07, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Do you hear [tɑɔ̯ʔ] ? Fête Phung (talk) 02:23, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, there probably is a (weak?) glottal stop at the end of the word, but it's not relevant to our previous discussion about the rhotic. Peter238 (talk) 13:49, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Ar far as I know, [ɑɔ̯] is a diphthong in Quebec French. I've heard a weak consonant at the end, maybe [tɑɔ̯h] ? Fête Phung (talk) 14:20, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

The way I see it, it's /tɑːʁ/ phonemically, but [tɑɔ̯] phonetically (I honestly don't hear anything after the [ɔ̯]). Maybe /ʁ/ is simply elided, I don't know. I'm far from being an expert at French phonetics. Peter238 (talk) 14:26, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Fr-printemps-fr CA.ogg

[ˈpχɛ̃ɪ̯̃tɒ̃] or [ˈpχɛ̃ɪ̯̃tɑ̃] ? Fête Phung (talk) 21:13, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

[pχɛ̃ẽ̯tɑ̃], unrounded. Peter238 (talk) 21:20, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

tête carrée

File:FR-tête carrée.oga

Hi Peter, it's [ˈtɛt käʁe] or [ˈteɪ̯t käʁe] ? Fête Phung (talk) 23:16, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I hear the former, so [ˈtɛt käʁe]. Peter238 (talk) 01:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe it's [ˈtɛe̯t käʁe] with a weak diphthong, but it's not clear, because the first syllable is very very short. Fête Phung (talk) 20:46, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I can't hear that. Peter238 (talk) 21:13, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

http://zh.forvo.com/word/crème_fraîche/#fr

Eloi's pronunciation is [ˈkχɛm fχæe̯ʃ] ? Fête Phung (talk) 21:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I hear [ˈkχɛ̈m ˌfχæe̯ʃ]. The first vowel is somewhat centralized, and the second word has a secondary stress. Peter238 (talk) 22:12, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Ancêtre.oga

Do you hear a secondary stress, [ˈɑ̃ˌsɐe̯tχ]? Fête Phung (talk) 22:22, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

That file doesn't exist. Did you mean [1] or [2]? Peter238 (talk) 22:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I meant the first file, File:Ancêtre Qc.oga, do you hear [ˈɑ̃ˌsɐe̯tχ] with a secondary stress sound? Fête Phung (talk) 22:48, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Even if I did, that would be the intonation. I don't think French allows a secondary stress right after a stressed syllable within the same word, but I could be wrong. As I said, I'm far from being an expert. Peter238 (talk) 22:56, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

File:FR-Tempête (Gaspésie).ogg

Do you hear [ˈtãᵐpæɪ̯t] with a [ᵐ]? Fête Phung (talk) 23:32, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

You mean [m̆], i.e. a short [m]? Maybe it's there, I'm not sure. Peter238 (talk) 23:44, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Fr-pamplemousse-ca-Montréal.ogg

[ˈpɑ̃mplœ̈mʊs] ? The [m] is clear here? Fête Phung (talk) 23:49, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

It's probably there, yes. Peter238 (talk) 00:04, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Qc-Poutine.ogg

[ˈput͡sɪnɐ] ? Fête Phung (talk) 00:09, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

[puˈt͡sɪnə̥̆]. The stress is on the second syllable, and the final vowel is mid, short, and voiceless. Peter238 (talk) 00:27, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Ancêtre.oga

The tone is [ɑ̃˥sɐe̯tχ˦˩]? Fête Phung (talk) 00:54, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

You can write it simply as [ɑ̃˦sɐe̯tx˦˩]. The rhotic is velar by the way. Peter238 (talk) 01:00, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Peut-être

File:Qc-peut-être.ogg

The tone is [pœ̈˧täe̯tʀ̥˦]? Fête Phung (talk) 01:05, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

The tone is mid-high, but the first vowel is not short, and you can hardly hear any trilling in the rhotic. I'd transcribe that word [pœ̈ː˧täe̯tχ˦]. Peter238 (talk) 01:28, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

hello

File:En-uk-hello-1.ogg

Hi Peter, it's [hɛ̈ˈlɵʉ] or [hɛ̈ˈlœy̯] ? Fête Phung (talk) 18:58, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

[hɛˈlɜʊ̯̈]. I'm not sure about the first vowel, but the first element of the diphthong is definitely not rounded, and the second element sounds rather central. Peter238 (talk) 19:04, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

princesse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLIAMw-t21I

Hi Peter. At 0:01, he pronounces the word princesse as [pχãˈsɛs] or [pχãɪ̯̃ˈsɛs]? Fête Phung (talk) 21:04, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I hear [pʀæ̃ˈsæs], with a uvular trill and two near-open vowels. Peter238 (talk) 21:19, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe [pʀ̥æ̃ɛ̃ˈsæs]? Fête Phung (talk) 17:37, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I hear a voiced trill (or tap, not sure). I'm also not sure about the first vowel. Peter238 (talk) 17:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

neither

En-us-neither-2.ogg

[ˈnaɪ.ðɚ], [ˈnaɪ.ð̞ɚ] or [ˈnaɪ.d̪ɚ]? Fête Phung (talk) 18:26, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

[ˈnaɪ̯d̪͡ðɚ], with an affricate. Peter238 (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

guêpe

File:Guêpe Qc.ogg

[ɡae̯p] or [ɡʲae̯p]? Fête Phung (talk) 21:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

[ɡʲaɪ̯p], with a quite front [a]. Peter238 (talk) 21:17, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

File:FR-Québec.ogg

[kɛ̈bɛkʲ] or [kœbɛkʲ]? Fête Phung (talk) 01:34, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

[kɛ̈bɛkʲ], definitely not rounded. It sounds pretty much like a common allophone of Polish /ɛ/. Peter238 (talk) 01:40, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

File:FR QC une fête.ogg

[ʏn ˈfɛ̈ɪ̯t] ? Fête Phung (talk) 01:50, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

The second word is pronounced [fɛɘ̯t], with a strongly centralized second element. I'm not sure about the first word though. Maybe it's [ʏ̠̆n], with a short near-close central (weakly) rounded vowel. Peter238 (talk) 02:07, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Ancêtre Qc.oga

The first syllable is [ɑ̃] or [ɒ̃] ? Fête Phung (talk) 01:37, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Probably unrounded, but I'm not sure. Peter238 (talk) 01:56, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Canard Qc.ogg

[kʲænɑːʁ̥] or [kʲænɑʌ̯ʁ̥]? 198.99.31.21 (talk) 02:17, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe the second one, I'm not sure. Peter238 (talk) 02:19, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Fr-cinq-fr.ogg

[sãːc] or [sã̃ĩ̯c] ? Fête Phung (talk) 21:23, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I'd say it's [sɑ̃ˑĭ̯c], with a slight palatal offglide before /k/. The vowel is more back than front. Peter238 (talk) 21:25, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

File:FR-Hiver (Gaspésie).ogg

Honestly, have you barely heard [ive̞ɪ̯ə̯χ]? Fête Phung (talk) 21:53, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

You already asked me about this a month ago. Peter238 (talk) 22:10, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

The [ɪ̯] is not clear, but maybe [ive̞ə̯χ]? Fête Phung (talk) 22:46, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

You already asked me a very similar question (see above), and my answer also applies to this one. Peter238 (talk) 22:50, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

You told me that you have heard [iˈvɛ̝ːʁ̥], but do you hear an [ə̯] before the [ʁ̥] now? Fête Phung (talk) 23:03, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I said that I couldn't really hear any offglide, which includes the schwa. Peter238 (talk) 23:09, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

All right

File:En-us-all right1.ogg

[ˈɒɫ ɹæɪ̯t̚] or [ˈɒɫ ɹeɪ̯t̚]? Fête Phung (talk) 23:16, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the first vowel, which may be either [ɒ] or [ɑ]. The diphthong, however, definitely does not have a front first element. It's [ʌɪ̯], or something similar - see Canadian raising. Peter238 (talk) 00:04, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Fr-lézard-ca-Montréal.ogg

[lezɒːχ]? Fête Phung (talk) 14:57, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

[lezɑːχ] or [lezɑːx]. I hear no rounding. Peter238 (talk) 15:01, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Canard Qc.ogg

In fact, I've heard [kʲanɑːχ], but it's written [kanɒːʁ] in Wiktionnaire. Fête Phung (talk) 21:22, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

You should know by now not to take the Wiktionnaire transcriptions too literally. Peter238 (talk) 22:19, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

[sɑɪ̯f] File:Ar-صيف.ogg [pœˈtäɪ̯tχ] File:Qc-peut-être.ogg

The diphthongs are really different? [ɑɪ̯] and [äɪ̯]? Fête Phung (talk) 21:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, they do sound different to me (as you say, [ɑɪ̯] and [äɪ̯], respectively). Plus, the first one is pronounced with an emphatic fricative [sˤɑɪ̯f]. Peter238 (talk) 21:55, 31 October 2015 (UTC)