User talk:Nakh

Welcome

Hello, Nakh, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of your edits have not conformed to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, and have been reverted. Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations that have been stated in print or on reputable websites or other forms of media. Always remember to provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. Wikipedia also has a related policy against including original research in articles.

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August 2009

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, adding content without citing a reliable source is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you are familiar with Wikipedia:Citing sources, please take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. KillerChihuahua^?!?Advice 12:33, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

{{Helpme}} Can I use any picture posted on Wikipedia, in other topics of Wikipedia. Nakh 10:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

No. In fact, in most cases you cannot use any image that is fair use (rather than licensed under a free license) that has been uploaded for use in one article, in any other article. See Wikipedia:Non-free content. Fair use images are specific to use in particular topics and in particular ways. This is not true all the time (and there are subtleties) but most fair use images are only properly used in articles which are about the subject the picture depicts and must be used at the beginning of that article. For example, a picture of a book cover or album cover is fair use as an educational image in an article on that album or book, but nowhere else. You could not properly, for example, use a fair use image of an album cover in a biography article on a band member simply because their image appears on that album cover. Now, if the image is licensed under a free license, or is in the public domain, you can use it anywhere. Any image page that is from the Wikimedia Commons is a free image as they only accept free images. Though all free images on Wikipedia really belong on the commons, people often upload them here, but many images locally uploaded are fair use and thus restricted. You can recognize a fair use image by the fair use rationale that the image page contains.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This is today's featured picture, a photo of Phobos. If is a public domain picture, so you can use it for anything you like - you could even make T-shirts of it and sell them!

(I was composing a reply at the same time as the above; I'll add a bit of clarification)

The vast majority of pictures can be used on any page, but yes, you need to check if they are 'fair use', by clicking on the pic. For example, look at File:Windows logo.svg, and notice that it has a "Non-free media use rationale" - so it can only be used on specific articles; I cannot even display it here on your talk page. If, however, you click on the Phobos picture here, you will see that it is free for any use.

If you are not sure, just ask;

• Leave a message on my own talk page; OR
• Use a {{helpme}} - please create a new section at the end of your own talk page, put {{helpme}}, and ask your question - remember to 'sign' your name by putting ~~~~ at the end; OR
• Talk to us live, with this or this.

Best wishes,  Chzz  ►  10:54, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Салам алайкум

Хьо нохчо вуй? Марша дог1ийла Википедийа чу! Ас нохчийн мотт 1амобан и суна Нохчийчоь и нохчийн адамаш беза. :) Сан ц1е Йоханн ю, девзина хаза хета. Хьо х1инцца Турцийн Пачхьалхахь 1аш вуй? Со Исландхойн Пачхьалхахь 1аш ву. Яздо! Баркалла и рамадан мурбарак! --Girdi (talk) 10:33, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Девзина хаза хета! :) Баркалла язда и Рамадан мурбарак! Со бусулб кхин а ву! :) Мичахь Российн Пачхьалхахь 1аш ву? Со Рейкявик-Г1алахь 1аш ву. --Girdi (talk) 10:47, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Translation request

Greetings Nakh, would you be so kind to help me create an article about Confucius in Chechen Wikipedia? Please. It's about a Chinese philosopher and is listed as one of the articles every Wikipedia should have. If you think that article is too long, here is a short version: "Confucius was a Chinese thinker and social philosopher, whose teachings and philosophy have deeply influenced Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese thought and life. His philosophy emphasized personal and governmental morality, correctness of social relationships, justice and sincerity." Thanks a lot! --Amaqqut (talk) 13:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

孔丘 Конг Киу
Died	Куфу, Китай Мохк
Era	Доьхьар Хенан Хаъам
Region	Китайир Дешанстаг
Notable ideas	Конфуцийн ойла

Конфуци

Конфуци, вокх Кон, вар Китаер дешанстаг. Цуьн хьигIамаш бина шорт хицамаш Малхбале, Китайи, Кареи, Вйетнами Ойланашни дахари техь.

Конфуцийн ойла, къоман куьгархоши хьор адми йукх меттигшахь хил йизу оьздангалехи, нийсуй, бакхаллех лаьц йу. Конфуцийн ойла, Хани дуьзалс куьгалхол диначу хенахь (206 Iиса вали - 220 Iиса веъан чул техь) Iедаллелаъ, Таоизмеллаъ сов лоруш коьрт ойла хилла. Конфуцийн ойла, европи Жесуит олу гулламен йукхир къоман Италир волу Маттео Риччис дехьа йакъкъан. Вокх Кон олу ц1е Конфуци аьл йовз йиннаграъ из Маттео ву.

Дyьзалли вахар

Конфуци Iиса Вали 551 шарахь вина олу. Тахан лерч динахь Китаи Шандонг дакъин чу йог1ш йолй Китаи Лу пачалкхир Куфу ГIалин уллехь вин ву. Хьалг1 лерачу дицамшехь къи амм сий долу дуьзлехь вин ву Конфуци. Unsigned: written by Nakh — Preceding unsigned comment added by CalEditerILikeTrain (talk • contribs) 12:08, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi again! I see that you have created the article, that's great! And could I ask you to add some categories to the article? Please. Thank you once again and best wishes! --Amaqqut (talk) 14:54, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Copyright concerns

Dear Nakh, I have looked at the Ilyasof book and noticed that you have copied many paragraphs almost verbatim. Please do not do that, or all your work may come to nothing. Wikipedia is very keen on copyright issues, and text that has been merely copied from a book will be deleted mercilessly. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 07:19, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

• I see no great harm yet, but you should try to rephrase the information you already entered, using your own words. That should not be much work; half of it has already been edited.
  In the future you may consider taking notes from the book by hand, and then editing the article by looking only at your notes. That is a way of removing the temptation to copy-paste from the net, and it will probably also improve the logical structure of your text.
  By the way, it would be nice also if you could upload a couple of photos of those towers, if you have taken any yourself. They are indeed quite striking and original. All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 19:22, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Alania

My dear Nakh, may I suggest that you and User:Taamu submit this article to arbitration? You have the beginnings of an edit war here, and that does no one any good. I am not on the arbitration committee, however, if I can be of further service, please do not hesitate to write to me. Wishing you the best of the day, --Lyricmac (talk) 18:10, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Warning

Under a decision of the Arbitration Committee, at WP:DIGWUREN#Discretionary sanctions, administrators can impose sanctions such as blocks, bans from certain pages or topic areas, or reverting limitations, on any editor who edits disruptively in the field of Eastern Europen history or politics. With your edits on Alania and related pages, you have been introducing questionable material in very poor English (in fact, some of it barely readable), partly apparently plagiarised from other sources (according to the thread just above), and which overall appears to be driven by a POV agenda, and you have been extensively edit-warring over these additions. I am informing you that you may face sanctions if you continue editing in this style. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks =)

Ah, really, thank you (that's Barkala or barkallash, right?). I'd really love to learn some time, though I'm really busy right now (I'm a student, so... ugh). I really know so little... My great-uncle, and occasionally my grandfather were the only people I ever heard speaking it, and I generally only picked up words that are said alone (like marta, dunno how that should be spelled was breakfast, I think) or random phrases. Whenever I try to learn on my own, often the dictionary will be only Russian-Chechen (and I don't know much Russian either), or the Chechen will be in Cyrillic letters. I really appreciate it though =). --Yalens (talk) 16:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Dear Nakh,

I have placed the three articles on my watchlist.

I don't have Jamoukha's book available right now, but I do have this: http://www.shamsali.org/taj/chechnat.html . It is mainly about Chechens (i.e. any differences of the Ingush or Batsbi in the topics discussed aren't noted), but it makes note of much history, culture, and ethics, and could be of much use for Nakh towers and Vainakh mythology. I will see what can be added from that source soon, feel free to use it yourself as well. --Yalens (talk) 23:15, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Dear Nakh,

I have been working on the Pkharmat page. Do you like it? Should I continue with the comparison stuff (I hope to add the Georgian and Circassian comparisons as well soon), or should we reorganize it? --Yalens (talk) 01:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Dear Nakh,

You have probably already seen this, but, yeah, I put a section up for democracy... I am sure it will only be a matter of time before people put a "neutrality" tag on the page, but I feel its at least somewhat neutral. Yes, it notes the democratic nature of the teip system, which is of course exactly what the West likes to see and Russia would rather them not see, and people will call it "biased" for that, but I think, if they do, we should rebut it by saying that its simply the truth, whether the truth leans towards more legitimacy towards the Noxchi view of the war or not.

Also-I have made a page, awhile ago, because I felt wikipedia lacked it, about Circassian nationalism (i.e., wanting independence from Russia). I was wondering how much you knew about the the topic and if you could help me with the page. Barkall. --Yalens (talk) 17:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

File source problem with File:1944Genocide.jpeg

Thanks for uploading File:1944Genocide.jpeg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

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Replaceable fair use File:1944Genocide.jpeg

Thanks for uploading File:1944Genocide.jpeg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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Proposed deletion of Attacks on humanitarian corridors in Chechnya

The article Attacks on humanitarian corridors in Chechnya has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-neutral article based on some questionable references including a blog. Fails WP:NPOV, WP:RS

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. andy (talk) 14:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Attacks on humanitarian corridors in Chechnya

I have nominated Attacks on humanitarian corridors in Chechnya, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Attacks on humanitarian corridors in Chechnya. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. andy (talk) 23:24, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Advice

I think you are having some trouble with editing here, but I can not speak freely because of an aggressive campaign by certain users on-wiki. If you want to talk with me, you are welcome to use my wikipedia email (it should appear as one of options at my user page) or include your own email in "My preferences". Then I will send you email. Thank you.Biophys (talk) 20:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:GravesKhoi.jpg

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. FASTILY_sock^(TALK) 07:08, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

File copyright problem with File:Vainakhmyth.jpg

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I think I've struck gold

I've found some good websites with general info, news, and etc. on Vainakh culture, Daymohk, current events and whatnot... I believe they have plenty of pictures we may be able to use, as well... you probably already know of at least most of these, but in case you don't...

Waynakh Online- Cultural Site and News service - http://www.waynakh.com/eng/

World Chechnya Day- Commemmorates genocide anniversary on Feb 23, this one will be very good as it has basic info on the genocide we can use in 18 different languages, so we can use it for many different wikis - http://www.worldchechnyaday.org/load/sitemap

Ichkeria Online- general info and news; it also has plenty of pictures - http://chechen.8m.com/ms.htm

--Yalens (talk) 17:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

PS, I put this there because they've been deleting a lot of your pictures for permission use issues-- I believe Ichkeria Online gave permission somewhere on the site to use them...

Another good source that I don't see yet used (has good architecture info for citation as well as folklore, etc.) http://www.circassianworld.com/pdf/The_Vainakhs_George_Anchabadze.pdf . I hope it helps. --Yalens (talk) 19:54, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit wars

Hello. I have been observing your edits on the Urartu article for quite a long time now and I have noticed an unfortunate and problematic tendency by you to immediately undo the edits of certain users, despite the legitimate reasons they have aired. Your failure to fully engage and discuss the grievances that they have listed is not conducive to the editing environment and that is why I am formally warning of you of the general restrictions of the arbitration case as specified here Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 (Urartu, broadly construed, falls under Armenia), which relates to articles related to Armenia, Turkey, and Azerbaijan. Should you continue engaging in such edits wars, I, or another user, will be obliged to report you; you might thus be placed under the restrictions of AA2 and should you continue to simply revert on sight and give superficial reasoning to justify them, further reports will be filed and this time, it will result in some form of sanctions, which include article or topic bans. Please discuss all your edits on the talk page of these articles if you have a genuine concern for their content. Thank you. Regards,--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 05:59, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

If you didn't see the discussion about talk page of Urartu related navigation template and nationalism section that is your own problem. This was discussed much before and decided to leave Armenian Nationalism section instead of Concept of Armenisation of Urartu (which was proposed by me) and Iron Age template in place of Armenian History. So please read warning and note it for yourself... And please stop trying to armenisate Urartu, its not funny anymore Nakh 06:29, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I am not trying to "armenisate" Urartu but it's obvious that there are two extremes to this argument: those who claim that Urartu is equal to Armenia and those who claim that there is no connection between the two. A discussion was raised earlier on and all the editors who voiced legitimate concerns were simply brushed aside. I have not explicitly stated that that section should permanently be left out but it should be rewritten, given the shrill tone of the author. I cannot say that I am an expert on Armenia and its connection to Urartu but to deny any link between them or to say that there are no ethnic and cultural continuities among Armenians is not only dishonest, but goes against respected academia. No credible scholars denies the existence of such a link. You have reverted the article for the 4th time over the past 24 hours and have violated 3RR. Normally, I would report such disruptive behavior, especially after my warning, but I'm hoping you will be more amenable to discussing, rather than simply reverting others' edits.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 06:52, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

This message is on Marshal's talk-page too:

Nakh's comparison is not correct. The relation between Urartu (Ararat) and Armenia as kingdoms and historically are as the Parthians and Sassanids. One ruling family and system was changed by another. Parthians were from the middla-Asia and Sassanids - local. Parthians chose a Hellenistic culture, whereas Sassanids - traditional local. If you claim that those 2 empires are not "Persian History" then tell it. Aregakn (talk) 10:40, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Aregakn, these two are totally different from each other. First of all Parthia and Sassanide Emp. were Pers states with both Persian population and rulers, while Urartu was a state with mixed population. Great amount of migrants and enslaved neighbors. We don't know when Proto-Armenians arrived to this zone, did they built the state together with Hurrians or were moved with Urartuan invasions, or are they just migrated Phrygians. Most likely Urartu and Armenia relation is the same with Turks and Byzantines, because we see that many of cultural signs of Hurrians were abandoned after fall of Urartu. Orontides didn't interested in old religion, old architecture, social structure and so on. Also we see that language changed totally, grammar and vocabulary changed at all, only few loan words from Hurrians passed to Armenia. So most probably Hurrian population was assimilated by Armenians, as same as Byzantines did. Genetically there are many Greeks in Turkish population but we can not say that Byzantine Empire is part of Turkish history or Byzantine empire is ancestral to Turkey. Sincerely Nakh 07:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh my... so you claim that Parthian and Sassanid empires were monoethnic and you compare the nomadic tribe invasion with native population of 1 same region? Aha... of course you're "right". By the way, who proved that Proto-Armenians "arrived"? It's just an other theory. Aregakn (talk) 20:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

New Section

Can you take a look at this please, [1]? Thanks.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 23:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

User sanction notice

In accordance with [2], you are placed on a reverting restriction for three months. You may only revert any page once per 24 hours. The usual exemptions apply (see WP:3RR), but it is explicitly noted that the vandalism exception applies only to simple and obvious vandalism, that is to say edits which any user who had never seen the page before would readily agree are vandalism. You are required to place an explanation for any reverts on the article talk page. Violation of this sanction shall be grounds for blocking for an appropriate period and may be reported to WP:AE or WP:AN3. Appeal of this sanction is possible directly to me, to this noticeboard, or to ArbCom. Stifle (talk) 15:15, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Nakh peoples

As-salaamu jalaykum, san vasha.

I've been working around, and I've expanded History of Chechnya a ton (we should probably bring the Nakh peoples page in line with this). It's much bigger now, but there's still a lot of work to do, and the whole first half of the 20th century is pretty much blank, sadly. But that's not why I left you the message. I basically have two issues to discuss.

I realized yesterday, that not only the page Nakh peoples wikipedia lacks information on the non-Vainakh (here I use Vainakh to mean only those Nakh peoples descended from the Dzurdzuks and speaking the closely related Vainakh languages with the dialect continuum; hence the Bats are excluded) Nakh peoples. We have just one page on the Bats, and we barely mention them on the Nakh peoples page. The page is more or less a script about Vainakh (i.e. Chechen-Ingush, and Kist if you consider them a separate ethnic rather than simply Georgian Chechens) traditions and collective history (pretty much the whole history until 1991). But if we're going to have a page about Nakh peoples, rather than titled Nakh peoples descended form the Dzurdzuks-Vainakhs... I thought we should make more reference to the other historical Nakh peoples. So I've made a category, Nakh peoples. I added all the modern Nakh to it, and I also added the Dvals. I made pages for the two Nakh nations that I could find a decent amount of info for- the Ersh and the Malkh, mainly from Jaimoukha's book (though I think the Ersh were mentioned in some French thing I read a while back, I'll try to find that. I also made a note about the Nakh ethnicity of the Kakh of Kakheti on the Bats page, implying that the Bats are their descendents (as Jaimoukha noted). So I have a number of questions/problems to discuss about this though...

1.Dvals

User:Taamu seems to be irked (perhaps because he is an Ossete) that I added them. Personally, I believe they were Nakh, not merely because Jaimoukha (our only English language source about the Nakh in antiquity, unless we count translations of Mroveli, Strabo, Vakhushti, etc.) says so, but because they are located right in between nations that are more or less confirmed to be Nakh- the Malkh and the Dzurdzuks/Vainakh. Nonetheless, I believe that it isn't certain they were Nakh (even though they were more likely Nakh than anything else, and Jaimoukha asserts it). My stance in including them in the Nakh peoples category is that, even if they aren't 100% confirmed, it is far more confirmed than the Iranian-ness of the Cimmerians or the Slavic-ness of the Vistula Veneti and both are included in those categories. Would you say we should remove them to avoid unnecessary conflict or should we just employ the "Veneti logic" to the issue...?

Actually, could you take a look at this now? The Dvals as a part of the category are gone (I've more or less accepted this, as it isn't worth the fight here), but Bouron also removed the info I had sourced in Jaimoukha's book. Supposedly, even though it is sourced with pages (and I put the link to the online viewing on the talk page) it is questionable, etc. Furthermore, he is trying to prove (w/o properly cited info) that Dvals always spoke an Ossete dialect (which is certainly no less questionable than them speaking Nakh or Georgian languages)- see [[3]]. You should probably also see [[4]] and the talk page for the Dvals... --Yalens (talk) 17:31, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry if its a burden, I'll find someone else if so... do you know of any Georgian editors here? It would be helpful if someone with a feel for Georgian history could be there.--Yalens (talk) 17:31, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Erh, never mind. It seems to not be a problem...relatively... anymore. --Yalens (talk) 20:34, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

2.Should we make a small Nakh peoples project?

I was wondering, if you wanted to help me make the Nakh peoples category into more of a project, rather than just a category. I dunno how much we can do with it, considering the lack of information about extinct peoples (there may have been at least of info in the old Chechen archives, the ones that Stalin burnt, sadly...). But I thought, well, we could make at least something modest. But I don't think I could do that completely alone (I will be off wiki starting in one week and ending 4 weeks later, though, so maybe now isn't the best time), so I wondered if you were interested in that sort of thing...?

3.The other Nakh peoples which I couldn't find cite-able enough info to mention (do you know anything about them)

Do you know anything about them? Tsanars, Gligvs, Tabels, Tibarens, etc? And the pages we do have (Ersh, Malkh) are tiny? Have you read anything about them in Turkish, German or Russian that we could use? (if you're busy I understand though)

4.Should we make pages for the Kakh and the Dzurdzuks?

The Dzurdzuks are the ancestors of the Vainakh, the Kakh of the Bats. Should we deal with info about them on the pages of their descendant groups, or should we make separate pages?

5.Urartu and Hurria

So far, I've avoided any mention of them, except numerous paragraphs on History of Chechnya citing Jaimoukha (who isn't a Chechen, so the Chechen nationalist label doesn't really apply) and a couple of websites on the Urartians. I don't really want to unleash the wrath of hordes of Armenian nationalist editors. But, nonetheless, the most roots shared with the Urartian langauges are easily the Nakh branch of the Eastern Caucasian family. Jaimoukha devoted a large portion of his book to backing up the theory that the Urartians were, indeed, Nakh. Mroveli noted that some Urartians fled North, and his name for the Vainakh- Dzurdzuks- is linked to a town on Lake Urmia. Urmia is close to a certain place called Nakhichevan (Nakh+Che+Bun, using the structure of Eribuni, the home of the Ers, that would make Nakhichevan the home of a tribe called the "Nakhiche"). By placenames, it is already confirmed that the Ersh, the people living on the Northern periphery of Urartu were Nakh, and the name of Nakhichevan is rather glaring. Neither the ancient inhabitants of Nakhichevan or the Ersh were Urartians exactly (like the Mingrelians are not exactly Kartlians), but the Urartian language bears over 120 shared roots with Nakh, out of a rather small lexicon, and it already borders at least one Nakh language (probably at least two). I basically put a section of Jaimoukha's arguments into History of Chechnya. If Urartian is Nakh, or Nakh-related, it follows that Hurrian also is. Do you think we should eventually add Urartu and Hurria to the Nakh peoples category, perhaps as peripheral members (like the Dvals)?

And, on History of Chechnya there isn't any counter-Nakh-origin arguments, although I noted that the theory does not have wide acceptance and is not really confirmed. Do you know of any that I can put up there (i.e. ones that aren't based around "THE URARTIANS ARE ARMENIANS YOU STUPID TURK PROPAGANDIST!! WE ARE NATIVE TO OUR HOMELAND!!")?--Yalens (talk) 17:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah, that's great... I know of some other Chechen users, but are there even any Ingush users on English Wikipedia... I haven't seen them. I don't think we even have any Avars. I do know of one Lak user, so at least we are getting some coverage of Dagestani history, albeit with the not-so-wonderful name of History of the Lak people, since they apparently were the only important people in the territoroy that is now Dagestan throughout all existence until recently according to the page... but its mostly good nonetheless, and Marat is doing well for the most part, if you choose to ignore Lak chauvinism. I doubt Marat would be much interested in our project, he seems quite busy with his page. So, aside from you and Marat, I don't know (i.e. talked to and know that they're active) many other Caucasians (let alone Vainakh) on wiki at all...

The names mainly come from the Georgian Chronicles (and a Georgian historian named Vakhushti who lived in the 1700s). The Kakh (plural=Kakh) were mentioned in both, and Vakhushti seems to have said that they "considered themselves kin of the Dzurdzuks, Kists and Gligvs [might not be exact wording here]". The Malkh kingdom we know of also from Greek sources (and their name is pretty clearly Nakh). The Ersh were a people under Urartian rule who seem to have been Nakh (whether the Urartians were or not, they seem to have been; it also wasn't really clear if the Ersh were Urartian or not). South of the Ersh is Nakhichevan and Durdzukka (its spelt with the Gaulish slashed d sometimes; it's the city on Lake Urmia for which the Dzurdzuks in the Georgian Chronicles-i.e. Chechens- are named), so if they were north of the old home of the "Dzurdzuks". And Jaimoukha goes into his whole long list of evidence for the migration (or re-migration?) of the Southern Nakh to the north, which occured with at least both the Dzurdzuks and the Ersh, to escape invaders. You've read Jaimoukha, right? He gives good evidence, and compounds Georgian records, archaeological records and Greek records to make the case for the Dzurdzuks fleeing North (or returning, as Mroveli seems to state?). I respect Jaimoukha as a historian, and he also attributes the others to being Nakh. I don't know anything about Tabels, Gligvs or Tibarens, I've never seen the names anywhere else at all. But, more or less, I trust Jaimoukha over nothing, and I trust the Georgian Chronicles and Vakhushti over nothing. Another thing is the question: "Who are the ancestors of the Bats". They aren't Vainakh, really, as they don't have Vainakh customs, and their language is too different. I suppose one could argue that their language had diverged, supposedly that they were North Caucasian Nakh (i.e. Vainakh most likely) that fled. One page says they did so in the 16th century. So then, they would be like the Kists. But that can't be: because the language wouldn't be as different as it is from Chechen and Ingush. Chechen and Ingush began to split in the 14th-16th centuries, but they are still extremely similar. That's why I believe Jaimoukha's theory- that the Bats are not descended from the Dzurdzuks at all and rather, represent the descendents of the Kakh or another South Caucasian Nakh people(Jaimoukha stated for the Kakh, specifically, that they were thought to be "Nakh of Tushian extraction"-i.e. like the Bats). As for Tabels and Tibarens though, considering I haven't seen them anywhere else (except for chechnya.free.ru, which I'm not sure I'm comfortable using as a source), we don't have to say a word about them...

Ah. So we'll just steer clear of Urartu, then? Are you sure, though, that the Urartians were not closer to Nakh peoples than Dagestanian peoples? Because, at least, the Nakh branch apparently had the most shared word roots (though that could be because it was the closest geographically?)...

As for crazy theories, yeah I know, it's frustrating. Frankly, I feel embarassed that there are Chechens who think stuff like that. But there are... those sorts of people... among all nations... who are misled, not necessarily by a fault of their own... to believe something so absurd. I saw your convo with one of them on the Chechen people page, for one... Frankly, it makes me want to hit my head against something hard. And if Noah ever existed, wouldn't all humans be descended from him anyways? And if Chechen never changed, why does the Ingush language exist as separate. It makes no sense at all and people believe it because it makes them happy. Supposedly, its okay because Dudayev says it. Seriously, didn't Dudayev also say once that Russia wanted to destabilize Ichkeria by artificially making earthquakes? He was a good person, and a patriot but he was a little crazy sometimes. I don't want people to see that there are a large number of Chechens who believe that, because people will think we are backwards (and what if the Russian nationalists on wiki see that...? We'd never here the end of it...). But then again, Germans have the Neo-Nazis, Russians have their crazies, Turks have the Turanists, and so on.

And finally, I think you meant the Savage Division (did Russia call it that meaning the Division that is Savage or the Division of Savages, I've always wondered... both, I think..). I know... a little... about it. For me, it's not a priority really... I mean, its important, but its only a tiny part of the history. I will be working more on WWII related stuff, like Hassan Israilov and whatnot a little though, as I know more of that. --Yalens (talk) 20:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Verwarnung

Ich werde es nicht zum hundertsten mal wiederholen, jegliche Angaben von der Seite Kavkazcenter sind Laut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources nur unter strengsten Auflagen zu verwenden! Wird dies nicht eingehalten blüht dir das selbe wie Biophys - ein dauerhafter BAN ! Sollten nochmal Artikel zugunsten terroristischer Organisationen verändert werden wird dieses ausnahmslos sofort gemeldet ! Wikipedia ist keine Platform für radikalislamistische Propaganda ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.254.92.144 (talk) 23:40, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Hehe, gut du bringst mich zum Lachen. Das gefährdet, zumindest vorgestellt hätte. Und dann die anonymen Drohungen werden nicht bearbeitet. Nakh 09:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Terminology: Nakh and Vainakh

San vasha,

This problem is one that I see a lot... throughout our Nakh peoples pages, the terms Vainakh and Nakh seem to be confused (I felt I even had to make reference to that on the Nakh peoples page so people can understand the articles issues with the two terms). Many editors, sadly including myself, have a habit of using them interchangeably (and I've had to get myself forcefully to stop, because I barely even realize I'm writing Vainakh rather than Nakh sometimes...)

As I've always read and been told, the Vainakhs are the Dzurdzuks and Gargareians and their descendents (Chechens and Ingush) who speak very similar languages and have a mass of shared cultural traits. Vainakh have the adat, the teip-tukhum system, and so on.

Bats don't have those things, and furthermore, they do not speak Vainakh languages.

And as for historical Nakh peoples, I think its wrong to call them Vainakh also, unless we are talking about Gargarei or Dzurdzuks.

What do you think about this? --Yalens (talk) 14:37, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Nakh peoples - lacking in German Wikipedia

Well done, Nakh! Very interesting article. Unfortunately this theme has been treated just linguistically in German Wikipedia up to now (called "Nachische Sprachen", sub Nordkaukasisch. I'm afraid it makes no sense to add it to Wikipedia:Requested articles in DE WP, as long as a good author is missing there. --Anglo-Araneophilus (talk) 11:29, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

рецензирование статьи Тайп

Nakh, добрый вечер! Присоединяйтесь к рецензированию статьи Тайп в РуВП, ну и заодно сопутствующей статьи Список чеченских тукхумов и тайпов--ΜΣΧ 17:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Migel Sances Huares (talk • contribs)

• возможно адаптируете для РуВП ваш файл File:Vainakh social organization scheme.JPG --ΜΣΧ 17:54, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Stories Project

Привет!

Меня зовут Виктор, и я рассказчик с Wikimedia Foundation, некоммерческая организация, которая поддерживает Википедию. Я хроник вдохновляющих историй сообщества Википедии по всему миру, в том числе и читателей, редакторов и доноров. Истории совершенно необходимы для любой некоммерческой органицации, чтобы убедить людей поддержывать наш проект, и мы знаем, что у людей, которые строют и используют Википедии есть много, что рассказать!

Я ищу вдохновляющие страницы пользователей, и интересных историй о том, как Википедия влияют на жизнь людей. Я задавал вопросы вроде "Как Википедия изменила Вашу жизнь?", "Какая самая интересная история у Вас есть о Википедии?" и "Википедия ли когда-нибудь Вас удивило?"

В прошлом году мы использовали ежегодный сбор средств как способ показать миру, кто на самом деле пишет Википедия. Мы показывали редакторов из Бразилии, Украины, Аргентины, Саудовской Аравии, Кении, Индии, США и Англии. Этот метод имел огромный успех, в результате чего у нас была наиболее финансово успешная кампании по сбору средств в историе организации. Кроме того, мы остались верны духу Википедии, просвещение общественности, что это бесплатно ТОП-5 Сайт создан добровольцами, как Ви и я.

В этом году мы хотим выделить еще редакторов Википедии на русском языке, так что я нахожусь в процессе планирования поездки в Россию и интервью с редакторами.

Если Википедия положительно повлеяла на Вас или на кого-то из Ваших знакомых, или у Вас есть что-то интересное сказать о Википедии, я бы очень хотел услышать об этом!

Пожалуйста, дайте мне знать, если Ви бы хотели участвовать в проекте Истории Википедии, или если вы знаете кого-то еще, с кем я должен поговорить.

Конечно, если у Вас есть какие-либо вопросы или сомнения, пожалуйста, обращайтесь! Я отвечу, как только смогу. Извините за плохой перевод этого письма, я использую Google-перевод. Я надеюсь, что заставляет вас смеяться :)

Спасибо за Ваше время,

Victor Grigas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victorgrigas

vgrigas@wikimedia.org

__________________________________

Hi!

My name is Victor and I'm a storyteller with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. I'm chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who make and use Wikipedia have so much to share.

I'm scouring user pages looking for inspiring, motivating and interesting stories of how Wikipedia has affected the lives of people. I'm asking questions like "How has Wikipedia changed your life?", "What's the most interesting story you have about Wikipedia?" and "Has Wikipedia ever surprised you?"

Last year, we used the annual fundraiser as a way to show the world who it is who actually writes Wikipedia. We featured editors from Brazil, Ukraine, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, India, United States and England. This campaign was a huge success, resulting in the most financially successful fundraising campaign ever. It was also a campaign that stayed true to the spirit of Wikipedia, educating the public that this free top-5 website is created by volunteers like you and I.

This year we want to highlight more Russian-language Wikipedia editors, so I am in the process of planning a trip to Russia to interview editors.

If you or someone you know (or have heard about) has been positively affected by Wikipedia, or have something interesting to say about Wikipedia I'd very much like to hear about it!

Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project, or if you know someone else with whom I should speak.

Of course, if you have any questions or concerns, please ask! I will answer as soon as I can. I apologize for any poor translation of this letter, I am using Google-translate. I hope it makes you laugh :)

Thank you for your time,

Victor Grigas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victorgrigas

vgrigas@wikimedia.org

Victor Grigas (talk) 23:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Galanchoge.jpg

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
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Proposed deletion of Malkh festival

The article Malkh festival has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This article is only based on 1 source which makes a lot of dubious claims. There is no evidence that the "fylfot" is based on any "God" called "Deela-Malkh" (which just translates to Sun-God). The fylfot image in this article is also a rather new invention and only exists on Muslim burials so it isn't pagan at all. In fact the only thing close to that symbol in Vainakh paganism is a swastika. I propose to delete this article because of 1. only one source, 2. dubious source, 3. clear misinformation.

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This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 09:01, 19 June 2023 (UTC)