User talk:MPorciusCato

nHowdy and welcome! I saw your change regarding the border Norrland/Finland, and I know I had a source for that... but I'll dig it up later. We'll take that on the article talk page, when I find put what source I used.

These are a couple of links that people like to give to beginners. You are in no way expected to read all of them right away, but you can leave them here and check when then you feel like it.

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
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Also, a link to the page about Wikipedia policy might come in handy sometimes.

On talk pages, such as this one, one should sign ones name using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, you can check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page (or someone else, of course) or place {{helpme}} on your talk page which will make someone show up shortly to answer your questions.

Happy editing! // Habj 01:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Habj. I have been active for a year or so in the Finnish Wikipedia and as an anonymous user in English one, so I am not a total stranger to the principles. I hope I am able to make a better contribution as a registered user. --MPorciusCato 23:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Beethoven symphony no 9

Hi!

The media file containing the 3rd movement seems to be wrong, it probably contains some other piece of music. Its actual length, for example, is 1 hour 17 min 16 sec, although it should be 19 min 19 sec. It would be nice if you could check this file. Ktm810 17:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll do it, but not today. I'm a bit busy. --MPorciusCato 18:49, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Discussion with BScar

Yes I noticed that it is useless, stupid me that it took some time. It won't happen again ;) Woden (talk) 16:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Social Democratic Party of Finland emblem.jpg)

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Conscription in Finland

Taisit vahingossa luokitella tuon artikkelisi Conscription in Finland Saksan, eikä Suomen, kohdalle. Korjasin luokituksen. JIP | Talk 07:22, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Pigeon post

Yes I'm ok with breaking the opening sentence into two as it does make it more readable. The old opening sentence was too negative and biased. I notice another article you have worked on is in dire need of being made more readable. Go check out the references section at Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland. It's a mess! Could look much better as two columns by changing reflist to {{reflist|2}} but unfortunately several of the extra long url's run into the second column (I did a preview of the edit) as they have not been constructed using the correct citation templates. See WP:CTT for the correct templates to use. Also I noticed that a lot of the references lead to Finnish language articles. That's ok but this is English Wikipedia and best to state on the ref that the article is in a different language by adding (Finnish) for example. For comparison the Suomi Wiki article contains no English links. Sting au Buzz Me... 22:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, some of the references there miss the {{fi}}-tags or those tags are broken. Thanks for pointing that out. BTW, there was no choice for me but to use Finnish sources. There is not very much written in English about the subject of the article. --MPorciusCato (talk) 09:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I fixed a number of tags and links and changed the reflist to two columns. There are a lot of references, but at least the article is referenced. As such, the content is rather uncontroversial to Finns, but for international readership, some of the points raised may feel odd, so I felt that a solid reference base is in order. --MPorciusCato (talk) 09:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On February 27, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Satakundskaya Flotilla, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Well done sir! Keep it up! Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 00:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Conscription in Finland

On 3 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Conscription in Finland, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 07:21, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

dyk well done on another one finished

On 15 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Finnish name, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers Victuallers (talk) 17:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Finnish Defence Forces

I changed your post concerning contractual military personnel (sopimussotilas). All contractual military personnel serve in NCO ranks. They serve in their reserve ranks with the exception of reserve officers who's rank becomes staff sergeant when signing on to active duty (their reserve rank remains as it is in the reserves). Contractual military personnel is not to be confused with MARU (määräaikainen reservin upseeri) which refers to a person who has studied for a one year in the National Defence College and started working after that. MARUs serve as 2nd lieutenants, on a limited time contract but are not referred as contractual military person (sopimussotilas).

Source: http://www.mil.fi/tyojakoulutus/tehtavat/sopimussotilaat.dsp (in Finnish) and http://www.mil.fi/varusmies/arvomerkki/erikoismerk_en.dsp 09:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.15.65 (talk • contribs)

Finnish military ranks Same as above. 09:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.15.65 (talk • contribs)

Strange. I was under impression that since 1st January 2007, all contractual military personnel serve in their personal ranks, including reserve officers. I had understood that this change was made as a result of the introduction of NCO corps to the FDF. The webpages you cite date before that change and the FDF has been rather sparing in updating its pages. --MPorciusCato (talk) 06:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, my mistake! You are absolutely right I got confirmation from Pääesikunta. I reversed my modifications in the articles. Sorry for the incorrect information. 16:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.15.65 (talk • contribs)

United Management Institutes

United Management Institutes – UMI is a higher education institute newly established in Finland. Its establishment has been according to Finnish and EU legislations. UMI curriculum has been and will constantly be reviewed by United Business Institutes, a university based in Brussels which have been operating since 1991 and has legitimate educational accreditation. A large number of Finnish students have been graduated from UBI and these have all been able to both continue their studies in Finland and find appropriate jobs. UMI is married to UBI of Brussels. All our lecturers will come from UBI and our campus can be regarded as UBI campus in Helsinki. As is mentioned on UMI official website, UMI is not part of Finnish Higher Education System since it is not listed in the University Act of Finland however according to our correspondence with the Finnish Ministry of Education, UMI degrees will be recognized as equivalent of Finnish degrees. This article has been written merely to inform the public about UMI, according to the freedom of information which is protected by law. The criticism which has been made regarding this article is not based on correct knowledge and is irrelevant. It is also offensive since it has undermined UMI operations and damages UMI’s reputation. UMI has not claim anything untrue about its operation in this article and on its websites and all its activities are according to Finnish and Europe legislations.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Adlanparsa (talk • contribs)

Dear Adlanparsa, do not be offended. The Wikipedia is not the place for free speech in general. Speech here is free as long as it benefits the process of making a better encyclopedia. Thus, articles about non-notable subjects should be deleted. The UMI is, at the moment, definitely non-notable small company. I did not claim your institution to be a diploma mill. I said that even if it were a diploma mill, which it resembles by awarding degrees not accredited by host country, it would not be notable.

And by the way, you have not shown any proof that the Finnish Ministry of Education or National Board of Education would have given their go-ahead to operate in Finland or stated that the degrees from the UMI were equivalent to Finnish ones. Personally, I find this very hard to believe. You have also not shown that UMI would have any accreditation from anyone. --MPorciusCato (talk) 18:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Dear MPorcius , if you are looking for evidence you can contact the Ministry of Education. This institute was not founded over night but we have been working with our lawyers for over a year to find out about the relevant legislation before establishing this university. And for your information many universities (which have accreditation) do not have accreditation from the host country. In Finland there is no accreditation scheme so no university can get accreditation from Finland (Some Finnish universities eg. HSE and HANKEN have EU accreditation so that their diplomas would be accepted in other EU countries.). So not having an accreditation form host country does not make the institute a diploma mill! However you are correct about the fact the our institute has only been active for a very short time and as a person who watches over the articles for making a better encyclopedia I accept your comment and I will remove the article. However I still find it offensive that you would comment on the legitimacy of our institute without enough knowledge about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adlanparsa (talk • contribs) 18:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

"Governorates"

Greetings. Could you kindly look at the discussion and article here Talk:Governorates of the Grand Duchy of Finland? Some principal issues are present now after the creation of those articles. Personally, I don't think articles are needed for the different eras of the provinces, they were still the same until 1997, and they should be on majority language name (as of 1917). --Pudeo⺮ 21:38, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for The Finnish Association of Graduate Engineers

On 13 November, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Finnish Association of Graduate Engineers, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 10:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Swedish-speaking Finns etc

Ave, Marcus Porcius Cato. It occurred to me that you might be interested in reading my comment on the discussion page about Swedish-speaking Finns. I noticed that there was a conflict on the page in question and that some editor called Podomi seemed to be pushing some kind of an ethnonationalistic POV of the pangermanic "Blut und Boden" type which is very easy to recognise if one has read German history. That kind of thinking, of course, spread into Scandinavia at an early stage and still seems to have some adepts. After having read Podomi's side of the story, I checked out the English version of the website of the most important "finlandssvenska NGO" (as Podomi himself puts it), the Assembly of Swedish Finland, and it most definitely and systematically uses the term "Swedish-speaking Finns". There's no way Podomi can ignore that. This is why his actions can only be decribed as deliberate spreading of disinformation. It means that Podomi has been violating one of the most elementary rules of Wikipedia. As Podomi doesn't seem to have understood what Wikipedia is and what it isn't, some kind of action will need to be taken. Monegasque (talk) 15:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I wrote another comment on that page about the fact that the Swedish People's Party, not surprisingly, uses the same term as the Folktinget. And then some other stuff. Check it out. Monegasque (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

For the most, I agree with you. Podomi's thought is definitely in the völkisch strain. However, I would refrain from violating Godwin's law. I suggest that you strike out the last part where you talk about a certain four-letter word. On the other hand, I would not condemn Podomi too strongly. The main-stream Finnish patriotism is based on the thoughts formulated by Johan Vilhelm Snellman, a Hegelian philosopher. Because of this, it shares a lot of common ground with the völkisch thought. Although the Finnish patriotism has never embraced the racial concepts of the völkisch ideology, the fine differences between the culturally oriented Finnish patriotism and Podomi's separatistic racial ideology are almost invisible. --MPorciusCato (talk) 19:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

You're right, of course, about Godwin's Law. The "N" card is being used far too often these days. One should not bee too quick to cry wolf, even if one sees an animal looking for all the world like at least a half-wolf. I guess I was being just a tiny bit too obvious... Hovever, I really detest POV-pushing, especially when it's combined, as in Podomi's case, with deliberate intellectual dishonesty and sweeping allegations which one doesn't even try to prove in a valid way (his genetic speculations can't possibly be true; I'm pretty much sure that he's guilty of misquoting and distorting some findings). Besides, his obsession with the idea that the Swedish-speaking population, at least the part that descends from the coastal peasantry, is supposedly totally the result of God knows how many centuries of inbreeding is dowright unhealthy and actually (even thought he doesn't seem to realise it) quite injurious towards the same people he pretends to champion. Have you seen the cult movie Deliverance, with its inbred hillbillies and rednecks? There's a famous scene in it where a six-fingered hillbilly boy, obviously an idiot savant, plays the banjo with true virtuosity. Those are the mental images which spring to mind when I notice that it seems very important for someone to "prove" that the population of a given municipality have supposedly almost not at all intermarried with the people in the municipality next to them, although they share the same religion, look alike (overwhelmingly blond with blue or grey eyes) and farm the land in the same way. That kind of idea just doesn't seem credible. Racism between Black and White people, while it is not a very nice thing (a deliberate understatement), is at least psychologically easier to understand than this kind of obsession with an imagined racial purity which is directed against a population group that looks, for all practical purposes, precisely like one's own group. This brand of White-on-White racism is psychologically quite puzzling, but to one who knows German history, the parallels are very obvious indeed with the way the Alldeutsche and later, of course, the Nazis (f... Godwin's Law this time; sometimes they just have to be mentioned) spoke and wrote about the Poles, the Chechs and other Slavs. And later, of course, when they had the power, they took "unilateral action" according to their ideas, with the results that we know. Let's just say that compared with völkisch ideology, the followers of Mussolini and José Antonio Primo de Rivera were mere bleeding-heart liberals... By the way, I think I know the real identity of Podomi. I will, of course, not "out" him on Wikipedia, as it would serve no purpose. Besides, it would be rather bad form. If he is who I think he is, I have met him several times in real life. He has a very characteristic style (I have read some of the stuff he has written "out there", in the "real" world and had several discussions with him) and, to my taste at least, a far too flumsy approach to methodological questions (he is, btw, not a geneticist). And, of course, his opinions and argumentation are identical with Podomi's. Unsurprisingly, he is active in a certain very controversial ethnonationalistic organisation which his alter ego Podomi has been presenting in rather positive light on the pages of this same Wikipedia. If it isn't who I think it is, it must his twin brother. And, as far as I know, he has no twin brother. 'nuff said, at least for now. Keep up the good work. Monegasque (talk) 21:45, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Terse Pontus

Hey, although I think you are clueless about Finland-Swedes, as the bulk of Finns, I am curious of your background. Your wide knowledge in the issue related to the topic is being looked up by me.Could I enquire a bit further of your educational or professional background? You are from the capital, Helsingfors?

And to Montesque of whatever your name was. The genetics of Finland-Swedes is intriguing indeed. The new DNA genomewide samples have crushed all the passed preconception we´ve held. Finland is genetically the most polarized nation in Europe (Between East and West Finns), yeah I know sound crazy but too true. Comprehensive analysis of Finland-Swedes is still lacking but so far it strongly seems that the genetic difference of Finland-Swedes and Finns represents the biggest genetic border inside of a given national borders (In Europe).Podomi (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, Podomi. I value my privacy. I may note that I am a Finnish, Finnish-speaking male with a master's degree. However, I am not prepared to tell more, as it would hamper my professional life. I am sorry. --MPorciusCato (talk) 16:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Well that´s a bit extreme. I don´t care about your personal info, I am just curious of the quality of the history section under the Helsingfors uni. I somehow have a gut that you are from there? And Montesque, I doubt we have met in real life. Unless you consider a membership in a lutheran södra svenska församling, or whatever the new name is after the bureaucratic mess, as extreme, then good luck. As far as I am aware I am not a member of any clubs. Although, let say that I remain highly sympathetic to finlandssvenska samling.Podomi (talk) 16:22, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Any chance of letting me know the uni and faculty of your graduation. Book tips regarding Finnish history is highly welcomed as well.Podomi (talk) 16:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I am not from any faculty of arts. I have a scientific background. However, I might recommend you the Karjalan ristiretki ja taistelu Nevan reitistä by Mauno Jokipii (2003, ISBN 951-842-255-9). A very good overview of medieval Finnish history. --MPorciusCato (talk) 16:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Are humanistics accounted for "arts" these days? "Scientific" must imply engineering sciences? Thanks for the book tips, must check out those. Any others?Podomi (talk) 17:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

About genetics: The idea of a genetic difference between West and East Finns does not sound crazy at all. The fact that there are important dialectal and cultural differences between Eastern and Western Finland has often been attested in scientific litterature and is certainly not unknown to me. It has furthermore been attested that the traditional peasant culture in Western Finland followed very closely the same pattern as in Sweden and in the Swedish-speaking countryside of the Finnish coast, whereas in Eastern Finland agricultural techniques and generally the pattern of traditional peasant culture was different in some significant ways. It has often been mentioned in literature that the most important cultural divide in Finland is between East and West. But my point is this: The vast majority of people in Western Finland speak Finnish. If Finland were to be divided into two separate states along this cultural and dialectal line, the percentage of Swedish-speakers in the new Western Finnish state would not be much higher than it is now in the undivided Republic of Finland. To sum up: if important genetic differences can indeed be attested between East and West Finns, how does this prove a supposedly significant difference between the Swedish-speaking and the Finnish-speaking populations in Finland? I haven't read the research reports in question, but if what Podomi now says is true, it would rather point to a different conclusion: Finnish-speakers in Western Finland are genetically more closely related to their Swedish-speaking coastal neighbours than to the people who speak East Finnish dialects. I wouldn't reject that idea a priori, because I know that the West Finnish tribes have absorbed and assimilated several waves of Indo-European (Proto-Baltic, Proto-Germanic, Baltic and Germanic) immigrants during thousands of years and that the Forest Saami people, who don't exist any more, have overwhelmingly been assimilated by the East Finns, particularly by those speaking some form of the Savo dialect. But I would definitely like a link to those findings. One of the cornerstones of Wikipedia is, as we know, verifiability. Monegasque (talk) 23:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

"One of the cornerstones of Wikipedia is, as we know, verifiability"

Yes, and that´s why will never see again your unreferenced self-manifestations, right?

"Among the Finnish-speaking majority, it is usually considered less polite and somewhat derogatory to refer to Swedish-speakers as "Swedes", as this expression is mostly by people belonging to ethnonationalistic fringe groups who would like to abolish the co-official status of the Swedish language and who want to emphasise the "foreign" origins of the language group. Thus, ethnicity tends to be emphasised by radical ethnonationalists among both language groups, while language as such is emphasised by the liberal mainstream among both Finnish- and Swedish-speakers and, for quite natural reasons, by the relatively large and rapidly growing group having a bilingual identity".

How do you think any english-speaker could ever verify your trolls?

I could address in the text that chauvinistic and ethnonationalistic Finns try deny the ethnicity and nationality of Swedes in Finland. The only difference is that I have an academic source to back that up.

In Finland this question (Swedish nationality) has been subjected to much discussion. The Finnish majority tries to deny the existence of a Swedish nationality. An example of this is the fact that the statutes always use the concept "Swedish-speaking" instead of Swedish"

"It is not correct to call a nationality a linguistic group or minority, if it has developed culture of its own. If there is not only a community of language, but also of other characteristics such as folklore, poetry and literature, folk music, theater, behavior.etc". Tore Modeen, The cultural rights of the Swedish ethnic group in Finland (Europa Ethnica, 3-4 1999,jg.56)

Verification is not a problem to me. Incase you continue to fool around with non-referenced propaganda. I am forced to add an another chapter in the page. It would about they Finns perceive Finland-Swedes. I have lot of academic sources on this. And let say that for an educated Finn these may be not the most pleasant stuff to hear.

Yes, the genetic difference between Finland-Swedes and Finns is very most likely the biggest genetic gap inside national borders of Europe. My reasoning is based on the fact that Finns are off from Central Europeans (Lao et al. 2008) and even little Scandinavian (Central European) input makes a big divergence from Finns. The distance of Mainland Swedes and Finns represents already the greatest genetic border between two nations in Europe. That is something we already know for certain. Moreover, Based on Palo´s study it looks loke the biological origin of Finland-Swedes and Western Finns is also biggger than expected. The Ostrobtonians Swedes from Larsmo already showed significant divergence even from their Finnish speaking Ostrobotnian neighbours.

Here´s some stuff, I added coule older studies as well.

Clear East-West duality was observed when when the Finnish individuals were clustering using Geneland. Individuals from the Swedish-speaking part of Ostrobotnia clustered with Sweden when a joint analysis was performed on Swedish and Finnish autosomal genotypes".

Population genetic association and Zygosity testing on preamplified Dna. 2008

"The subpopulation LMO (Larsmo, Swedish-speaking) differed significantly from all the other populations. The geographical substructure among the Finnish males was notable when measured with the ΦST values, reaching values as high as ΦST=0.227 in the Yfiler data. This is rather extreme, given that, e.g., subpopulations Larsmo and Kymi are separated by mere 400 km, with no apparent physical dispersal barriers between them".

Jukka U. Palo et al. 2008. The effect of number of loci on geographical structuring and forensic applicability of Y-STR data in Finland.

"Table 1 shows the distibution ADA (Adenosine deamiase) phenotypes in three samples each from Finland-Swedes (population 1, 2, 3,) and Finns (4,5,6). Brief preliminary reports of these data have been presented elsewhere. The ADA2 gene frequency is about 0.6 in the Swedish population investigated in Finland and 0.10 in the Finns"......The difference between the distribution of ADA phenotypes in the Finland-Swedes and in Finns is significant".

Adenosine deaminase polymorphism in Finland (Swedes, Finns, and Lapps), the Mari republic (Cheremisses), and Greenland (Eskimos).

"Among Alanders and Swedes on the Finnish mainland the frequency (around 20%) was comparable to Swedish values but considerably higher than among Finns".

ABH secretion polymorphism in Icelanders, Aland Islanders, Finns, Finnish Lapps, Komi and Greenland Eskimos.Podomi (talk) 11:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I found this quote: "In the MDS plots the Finnish-Swedes stood out from the rest of Western Finland only when Sweden was included in the analysis, which highlights the importance of relevant reference populations also when detecting patterns of variation within a country." (Salmela, Lappalainen et al, 2008. Genome-Wide Analysis of Single Nucleotide Polymorphism Uncovers Population Structure in Northern Europe) Monegasque (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

"Mysterious" IPs

Hello, MPorciusCato. You might want to check out the amount of recent "anonymous" editing on the page "Swedish-speaking Finns". Monegasque (talk) 15:53, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The return of the "Mysterious Reverter"

First Podomi "pleads guilty" and tries to justify his sockpuppetry, POV-pushing etc etc etc. And then, as he obviously doesn't care about rules at all (that's what happens when a kid can do whatever he wants; he never grows up to be a responsible adult), he just keeps on with his sockpuppetry. Check out his latest IP revert. Monegasque (talk) 21:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Is aggressive pushing for unreferenced self-manifestations allowed in wikipedia? Anyway, the times when Finnish ethnonationalist could openly portray Finland-Swedes according to their own wishes and desires are finnished. Sad isn´t it.Podomi (talk) 11:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I wonder how much the "Suomalaisuuden Liitto" is paying Podomi. In any case he keeps doing his best to portray the Swedish-speaking Finns in a very negative light, precisely according to the stereotypes that the extremist fringe among Finnish-speakers keep spreading. No sane finlandssvensk would push those stereotypes willingly, as Podomi keeps doing. Actually I don't even believe anymore that Podomi is a real Swedish-speaker, he's obviously just masquarading as one because it serves his purpose... Monegasque (talk) 14:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL! I am really amazed about the level in which are willing to go in order illegitimize my views. The shit I´ve been taken after wanting to have the article just slightly more neutral and versatile is unparallaled. This is unbelievable.Podomi (talk) 14:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Ari Puheloinen

On July 21, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ari Puheloinen, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Wizardman 12:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

World War II evacuation and expulsion merger

I understand you are opposed to the usage of the term "population transfers". I am however wondering what your sentiment is regarding the employment of a standardized format (possible one of the 3 proposed) if another term, or variety of terms, were used? If you believe there is value in a standardize format I would encourage you to change your survey vote to indicate that you are opposed to the term "population transfers" but support a standardized format in principle. Your continued participation is much appreciated.--Labattblueboy (talk) 19:52, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

World War II evacuation and expulsion

I have moved your vote into the survey section in an effort to keep things organized. --Labattblueboy (talk) 20:46, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Bellum se ipsum alet

Hail Cato.

Since you, Marcus Porcius Cato the Elder, coined the (in)famous slogan bellum se ipsum alet, might I respectfully ask that you review and maybe expand the article I have just created on that slogan. It is listed for DYK (nom of 9 Sept) and already approved, but who can possibly be more knowledgable on this than you, its creator ;) (I would have informed you earlier if it was not for my erronous belief that you had been dead since 2,200 years, my bad) Regards Skäpperöd (talk) 21:44, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. Yet, sadly, I'm not the Cato you refer to. :-) However, the article you've created looks fine and I shall add it on my watchlist, if only to guard it against vandalism. --MPorciusCato (talk) 10:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi MPorciusCato - Requesting your input regarding the most appropriate headline - message to Killing Vector below

Why are you ignoring requests for you to reason your reverts of the 'Soviet attack' from the headline of the related text

Killing Vector: Despite requests, you have refused to give any reasoning for your reverts, whereas I have explained my edits. Do you not agree that the Continuation War started with a major Soviet attack against Finland on June 25, 1941 ?

If you agree, that this is where and when the Continuation War began, why in your opinion this fact - perhaps the most defining moment of the entire war (as it launched the war) - does not deserve to be included in the headline of the block of text which discusses the topic ?

I ask you kindly once again - please explain your reverts - can you not offer any reasoning at all for you doing this ? If you can't, please allow the war-initiating Soviet offensive to stay in the headline where it belongs.

I wait for your answer, before reverting your revert. If you decline to offer any acceptable reasoning for your reverts, or if you continue giving no explanation at all, I believe others agree that your reverts are unjustifiable and your removal of the Soviet attack from this headline should not be withstood.

My suggestions for the headline in question are: Initial stages - Soviet offensive starts war - - or - - Initial stages - Soviet air raid begins war - - or - - Initial stages - Soviet air offensive launches war - - or - - Initial stages - Soviet Union attacks Finland - - or - - Initial stages - Soviet offensive, June 25, 1941 - - or, perhaps the best - - Initial stages - Soviet offensive of 1941.

The 'Initial stages' was a suggestion from user Illythr, so I left that part in the headline - since this block indeed discusses the initial stages as well, besides the Soviet attack.

Any other suggestions for this headline - leaving the Soviet attack in ? Or, does anyone else wish to state why in their opinion this war-initiating major Soviet offensive should not be in this headline ? Should the Finnish offensive not be in the following headline either ?

In my view, the most appropriate phrasing for that following headline is: Finnish counter-offensive of 1941, as that is what it was - a counter-offensive. Yet, I am also ok with the current headline there, Finnish offensive of 1941, as long as the prior Soviet offensive is stated in the headline before this. Boris Novikov (talk) 06:16, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

There was a consensus for a short while, until you broke it. Please, take a closer look at your reverted edit, and reconsider. Besides, there is no need to be a consensus. What is essential is, that facts exist, and that this is Wikipedia. There is a consensus that this massive attack took place. It started the Continuation War. Consensus is a joke:

Q How many people is consensus ?

A: As many as it takes.

Q: Well, how many is that ?

A: As many as it takes. ~ ~ (Source: Wikipedia, 2009) ~ 87.93.110.10 (talk) 19:01, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

In my opinion, the discussion had lasted less than a few hours after this suggestion [1]. As this thing has been an object of a long-going edit war, assuming consensus after such a short while is not polite. Boris should have waited for people's input for a longer time.

Hi MPorciusCato,

By "minor heading" in the edit summary, I meant that the text no longer was proposed to be included in the main header, but to be presented as it's own sub-header (a smaller header) instead, on top of the text which discusses the Soviet attack only. So, sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough. I admit, the wording could have been chosen better.

In writing there hasn't been any opposing input from anyone participating in the reverts. User 'Posse72' has agreed with the proposal, and user 'Whiskey' raised some points which were discusses (he has not edited or reverted the headlines).

However, I believe this new version will have a better chance to go through. I admit I could have waited for longer when first posting it. However, I wanted people to see where exactly it is suggested to be positioned, so that they'll be able to give input. Boris Novikov (talk) 06:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

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Your edit on Talk:Finns

Hello. I have reverted your edit since refactoring talk page posts made by other users isn't allowed, other than removing for example personal attacks against other editors. So please don't do it again. If you have objections to what other users write express your objections in a post of your own, but do not change/rewrite their posts. Thank you. Thomas.W ^talk 10:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your correction. However, the edit [2] I undid was not meant to censor a viewpoint I don't agree with. Instead, it was meant to stop a violation of WP:REDACTED. User:Gavril09 was editing his old comments, with substantial additions, and those comments were already answered. I was mistaken in my correction, though, it seems. --MPorciusCato (talk) 22:09, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

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