User talk:Isoglosse

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January 2023

Hello, I'm Mattythewhite. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Hugo Lloris, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:33, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mattythewhite Hi. As far as I can see, it is unusual here to provide sources for phonetic transcriptions. (I have seen transcriptions with sources, but they are few and far between.) This is one of the reasons I have not done it. (Another is that it is a pain in the ass to add references in the Android app. Another is that transcriptions are typically cobbled together from various sources.) So I am surprised and also taken aback by the fact that you have reverted my edit. Are you going to revert all the transcriptions without sources I have added recently? If so, please let me know. I'll stop adding transcriptions in that case. Thanks, Isoglosse (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

My concern with transcriptions being added without a source is that pronunciations can vary, and the editor adding it may base it on an idiosyncratic way of saying the name that they've added. I can't say I intend to revert the other transcriptions you've added; I reverted your addition to the Lloris page after seeing it on my watchlist. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:51, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mattythewhite Thanks for your reply. I agree that phonetic transcriptions are not exactly standard fare for Wikipedia. In many cases, there is not a single source that could be given. (As far as I know, there is no publicly accessible pronunciation dictionary that is updated regularly and includes recent phenomena or current celebrities. Some broadcasting companies have pronunciation databases for in-house use, but these typically give Anglicised pronunciations rather than transcriptions of the source language.) One could even argue that phonetic transcriptions involve some kind of original research: You may be a (native) speaker of the language in question, you have some linguistic knowledge about its phonology, you look at similar words in the dictionaries, you listen to what people say on Forvo or YouTube and try to gauge if they are reliable. When it comes to celebrities or place names: Even if you find a recording of a person saying their own name or of a local saying the place name, there can still be room for discussion on how to transcribe it. Ultimately you have to trust the person making the transcription – or ask them to disclose exactly how they arrived at this transcription, which may take a paragraph or two to explain. I can only say that I make a bona fide attempt to provide accurate transcriptions, following existing transcription guidelines, limiting myself to languages I know enough about and steering clear of cases where I cannot find enough accurate information. The transcription of the name of Hugo Lloris did not seem particularly controversial to me: I think we can safely assume that his first names, which are quite frequent in France, are pronounced the regular French way. I do not remember what made me conclude that his last name was pronounced Lyoris rather than Yoris or Loris, so I agree that giving a source for that would have been helpful. If you can find a recording of him saying his own name, that would be perfect. I will try to find the recording again that I based my transcription on. Isoglosse (talk) 22:37, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Rosetta Barnstar
	It's a tedious and neurodivergent job to care so much, like me, about IPA transcriptions of interesting names and articles, but someone's gotta do it. /ən ˈɛksələnt ˈwɛlkəm fɔr juː/! ~Sıgehelmus♗(Tøk) 02:58, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

[ˈθæŋk ju səʊ̯ ˈmʌt͡ʃ | əm ˈkiːp ʌp ðə ˈɡʊd ˈwɜːk ˈjuː ˈtuː] ⭐ Isoglosse (talk) 16:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

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