User talk:Hippo43/Archives/2013/June

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2013 Lions Tour

Regarding recent edit. I understand what you are on about with too much information in the fixtures section, however if we keep consistency from past tours, then line-ups will be included for the matches against Australia. However, the Lions has never played the Barbarians before and thus consistency doesn't matter with this particular match. This means line-up can and should be included for the Lions v Barbarians match as well as the Australian matches. Rugby.change (talk) 20:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Nonsense. In the 2009 article, only the test matches have all this trivia. In previous tours' articles, none of the games do. This was not a test match so there is no precedent for including this stuff, and you haven't made any argument for including it. Worse, you apparently don't know that the Lions played the Barbarians in 1977, and I can't see any article having all this stuff for that game. --hippo43 (talk) 21:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

For the record I knew about that match, but this match is part of the tour. Further more, I have created a template that should be the best way to show line-ups. If we used this:

{{Rugbybox line-up collapsible
|date = 1 June 2013
|time = 19:30 [[Hong Kong Time|HKT]] ([[UTC+8]])
|home = [[British and Irish Lions]] [[File:British and Irish Lions flag.svg|20px]]
|score = 59–8
|report = [http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/match/164078.html Report]<br />[http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/11928.php Lions Report]
|away = [[File:Barbarians.png|30x15px]] [[Barbarian F.C.|Barbarians]]
|try1 = [[Paul O'Connell|O'Connell]] 27' c<br />[[Mike Phillips (rugby player)|Phillips]] (2) 32' c, 43' c<br />[[Jonathan Davies (rugby player born 1988)|Davies]] 57' c<br />[[Alex Cuthbert|Cuthbert]] (2) 60', 69'<br />[[Dan Lydiate|Lydiate]] 74'<br />[[Alun Wyn Jones|A.W. Jones]] 80+1' m
|con1 = [[Owen Farrell|Farrell]] (3/3) 27', 32', 43'<br />[[Jonathan Sexton|Sexton]] (2/5) 58', 76'
|pen1 = [[Owen Farrell|Farrell]] (3/4) 3', 20', 40'
|try2 = [[Kahn Fotuali'i|Fotuali'i]] 56' m
|pen2 = [[Elliot Daly|Daly]] (1/1) 15'
|stadium = [[Hong Kong Stadium]], [[Hong Kong]]
|attendance = 28,643
|referee = [[Steve Walsh (rugby referee)|Steve Walsh]] ([[Australian Rugby Union|Australia]]) }}


FB	15	Stuart Hogg
RW	14	Alex Cuthbert
OC	13	Jonathan Davies
IC	12	Jamie Roberts	66'
LW	11	Sean Maitland
FH	10	Owen Farrell	57'
SH	9	Mike Phillips	57'
N8	8	Toby Faletau	62'
OF	7	Justin Tipuric
BF	6	Dan Lydiate
RL	5	Paul O'Connell (c)	27' to 36'		62'
LL	4	Richie Gray
TP	3	Adam Jones	54'
HK	2	Richard Hibbard	52'
LP	1	Mako Vunipola	54'
Replacements:
HK	16	Tom Youngs	52'
PR	17	Cian Healy	54'
PR	18	Matt Stevens	54'
LK	19	Alun Wyn Jones	27'	36'	62'
N8	20	Jamie Heaslip	62'
SH	21	Conor Murray	57'
FH	22	Jonathan Sexton	57'
WG	23	George North	66'
Coach:
Warren Gatland


FB	15	Jared Payne
RW	14	Joe Rokocoko
OC	13	Elliot Daly
IC	12	Casey Laulala		68'
LW	11	Takudzwa Ngwenya		59'
FH	10	Nick Evans
SH	9	Dimitri Yachvili		52'
N8	8	Sergio Parisse (c)
OF	7	Sam Jones
BF	6	Samu Manoa		10'	19'
RL	5	Dean Mumm		52'
LL	4	Marco Wentzel		59'
TP	3	Martin Castrogiovanni		68'
HK	2	Schalk Brits	7' to 17'			44'
LP	1	Paul James		57'
Replacements:
HK	16	Leonardo Ghiraldini		10'	19'	44'
PR	17	Duncan Jones		57'
PR	18	Andrea Lo Cicero		68'
LK	19	Jim Hamilton		59'
N8	20	Imanol Harinordoquy		52'
SH	21	Kahn Fotuali'i		52'
FH	22	James Hook		68'
WG	23	Mike Tindall		59'
Coach:
Dai Young

Man of the Match:
Mike Phillips (British and Irish Lions)

Touch judges:
Lourens van der Merwe (South Africa)
Angus Gardner (Australia)
Television match official:
Matt Goddard (Australia)

then line-ups can be collapsed in. However, the test matches would stay like it was in 2009. Do you agree? Rugby.change (talk) 21:30, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I've replied at the article talk page, which is where we should discuss content. and if you knew about the 1977 game, why did you say they had never played before?? --hippo43 (talk) 21:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, lets continue the discussion about line-ups on the talk page. Rugby.change (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Could you view the new look article and express your opinion? Rugby.change (talk) 03:32, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, why did you remove the 'Match 1, Match 2, 3, 4, etc column on the schedule table. It is hyperlinked to the fixtures further down the page and is easier for readers to navigate through the page. The new format table is good, I just think having a hyperlink column at the start makes it easier to navigate through the page from the table. Rugby.change (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I explained [[1]] Because there's no such thing as 'Match 1' etc. Calling it Match 1 amounts to original research.

Also because it wasn't at all clear what those links linked to. Why would a reader click on a link to 'Match 1'?? Where would they think they were going? --hippo43 (talk) 19:22, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

What do you suggest we could call it rather than 'Match 1'. Match stats or something. Details perhaps. Rugby.change (talk) 19:27, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't care. It's not necessary. What you added is fine by me. --hippo43 (talk) 20:55, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Hippo, I'm not sure if you had seen my request on the Federer talk page before you made this edit, but either way... thank you very much. --76.189.109.155 (talk) 05:41, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

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Expected teams

Although those sources are slightly speculative, it's not like the speculators are just some mugs down the pub; the articles were written by the BBC's top rugby correspondent, someone who I would not hesitate to call a rugby expert. If it was a blog post, I'd understand your objections, but you'll find reputable sources all over the place stating that Roberts, Vunipola and Hibbard were all expected to make the starting XV for the first test. – Pee Jay 20:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that there are sources speculating on who was most likely to make the team, by some very knowledgeable commentators. (Though there are also plenty of sources which tipped other players before the game.) What we would really need for this to be well-sourced would be multiple, good quality sources which said, after the team was announced but before the game, that the selections were surprising. There was no controversy - it's not like they picked anyone really weird.

But more importantly, who really cares? This is trivial, and is obvious recentism. Nobody will give a shit in a month. If selection has any impact on the series overall, there will be sources written in future which cover it, most likely in the pile of cash-in books which will follow. It's an encyclopedia, not the Daily Mail - I just don't think this should be in a short summary of the game. --hippo43 (talk) 21:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC)