User talk:Bgwhite/Archive 18

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Misleading edit summary

Thanks for the BG19bot's 08:28 UTC August 26 edit of The Spirit of the Age. No complaints about the helpful fixes made. But I would like to call your attention to your bot's misleading edit summary. It includes the words, "Punctuation goes before References." Yet punctuation placed after references is not one of the four errors it fixed. Only one had anything to do with references. This had me puzzled for a while. Not really that big a deal. But I'm wondering if it might be better to have your bot be a little less specific in its edit summaries, unless you can be sure that it is being accurate. --Alan W (talk) 04:36, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

@Alan W: A list of problem articles is created every day around 0z. Also one is created from the monthly dump file. Between the time the list was created and the bot ran, you had already fixed the problem in one of your 20 something edits that day. I'm walking a tightrope that gets complaints from all sides.
  1. I run the bot quickly after the list gets created. This covers up vandalism edits that might not get discovered.
  2. I run the bot a long time later. Some errors do get fixed, but complaints happen that the bot shouldn't have visited in the first place because the problem was fixed. How long do you wait to run? 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, etc.
  3. If I don't state specifically why I visited the article, I get complaints. This especially happens when the the error had already been fixed and the bot "fixes" some minor things. A bot isn't supposed to make "minor fixes", so the bot owner gets yelled at boards.
  4. If I make it too specific, I get your talk message.
Running a bot is alot like my wife. I get complaints, yelling, screaming, misery, mayhem and no sex. Well, atleast with the bot, I don't get a mother-in-law. :) Bgwhite (talk) 05:14, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I do some programming myself, so I totally understand what you are up against. As I said, not that big a deal. Better that your bot finds and fixes those maddeningly hard-to-detect problems like doubled spaces than otherwise. If there is occasionally an erroneous edit summary, I suppose I can live with it.
One thing I can't understand, though, is why anyone should complain if your bot finds and fixes the minor errors. Those can be the hardest to detect. I'm a nitpicker about these things. I used to do proofreading for a living, among other things of that kind. Now I do Quality Assurance testing, and I'm more of a fanatic about detail than ever. And yet I still overlook some things. I'm pleased with myself that with the 11K of text I added to that article on Sunday, there were only those four tiny things I missed; yet there they were! So thank you again for the "minor fixes". That's what bots are particularly good at, and, again I am not complaining. At least not about BG19bot. Now if I should some day encounter one named "MotherInLawBot", well.... :-) --Alan W (talk) 05:52, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Wrong edit

Hi Bgwhite. Something went wrong here with your bot. I tried to fix it. Regards, Trijnsteltalk 11:00, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) It was due to an existing mess in the article. See what Visual Editor did to the article foot here and here. The article ended up with four sets of categories (some broken), and four succ boxes, three of which had the {{s-start}} substituted in error. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:56, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Oh right, I see. Thank you for finding this out and fixing it, Redrose64! Totally forgot that it might be something else. Trijnsteltalk 12:19, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Jimmy Lyggett

Hello Bgwhite, my name is Ana Radecic. I am a film producer from Croatia. At the moment me and my team are developing/doing research about a life of an American black boxer Jimmy Lyggett Sr. I saw you edited/updated wikipedia details about Jimmy and we need a help with research. We would like to know if you know anything more about Jimmy's life (beside the wikipedia text), can you help us with some sources that we could use to go forward with our research.

Thank you in advance Ana Radecic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anaradecic (talk • contribs) 15:29, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but I only edited the page to fix a problem with syntax. I don't follow boxing and would be of no help. Bgwhite (talk) 16:45, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

All Saints' Church, Whitefield

Just correcting some reflist errors and noticed that this bot had caused them in this article rather than tidying them up. It appears to have added a curly bracket in this edit rather than removing one. Not sure whether this is something that you can fix programmatically but thought I should flag it to you to take a look as this may not be the only example. -- gsyhiap (talk) 01:28, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Why?

Hey BG, not that I have any objection to it, I'm just wondering... what was the point of this bot edit? LadyofShalott 02:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Because I missed talking to you an wanted to start up a conversation. The question is not the bot's edit, but why did the checkwiki program find a bracket problem in the first place. The ending ref that the bot changed around contained (rusty blackhaw}. There is a mismatched }. Bot fixes about half the problem articles and I manually go over the other half. Because of the place on the keyboard, { } gets used for [ ] and | alot. Bgwhite (talk) 05:33, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Well I see how I missed that. Amongst the other edits at the same time, I couldn't tell what the basic thing was that prompted it to touch the article at all. As far as talking to me, you need no excuse, start up a conversation anytime! :) LadyofShalott 01:26, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

WP:REFPUNCT bot fixes

Hi. Just wondering why this bot edit was described as "Punctuation goes before References". I do admit that putting punctuation after references is a bête noire of mine, but all I can see in the edit is text substitution for template variables. Am I missing something obvious, or is the bot just selecting a stock message? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: See User talk:Bgwhite#Misleading edit summary Bgwhite (talk) 08:24, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Freddie Combs

Back in October 2012 you PRODded this, and I deleted it. I have just undeleted it as a contested PROD in response to a request on my talk page from someone who wants to write about him. I will explain that it needs more for notability, and am letting you know in case you want to keep an eye on it and consider AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 10:41, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

WAFL season club details

Hello,

regarding the “Clubs” section of the 1986 WAFL season article, I noticed that you had filled in the gaps in the list of coaches and captains.

I wonder if you would be of any help and assistance regarding the articles I have created on the WANFL/WAFL/Westar Rules seasons of 1977 to 1985 and 1994 to 1999? Even if you cannot, could you tell me the source of your information as it is tough to find on the web. I also have been seeking detailed information to improve the “Club honours” section of the East Perth Football Club article. luokehao, 22:13 (AEST), 1 September 2013

Sorry, I didn't do any edits on coaches or captains. You have the wrong person. You might want to contact editors Aussiesportlibrarian and LauraHale for help. Both have worked extensively in Australian sports. Bgwhite (talk) 05:28, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Walter White and Delenn: one degree of separation

SPOILER ALERT!

On tonight's episode of Breaking Bad, we learned that Jesse's friend (I'm not sure if it was Badger or Skinny Pete) talked about nothing but Babylon 5 for three hours. And I just discovered that Bryan Cranston had a small role on an episode of Babylon 5. Have you seen any of this season of Breaking Bad (online or elsewhere) yet? Or do you just wait to see it all later on Netflix? The sad countdown to the end continues: tonight was episode four of eight. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 07:34, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The video with Cranston. I read a synopsis of the episode and it has Vir assassinating the Emperor. I need to watch Babylon again, it has been a few years. I haven't seen any of the last four episodes of Breaking Bad yet. No cable. We will binge watch them just before the last episode. Bad has been one of the all-time best shows. Season 1 with the humor and Season 4 with Los Pollos Hermanos are my favourite. Don't know if you watched Orange Is the New Black or House of Cards on Netflix. Both of those were really good. Bgwhite (talk) 08:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to the clip. I vaguely remember it. I don't have Netflix, so I haven't seen either of those shows. My list of things to eventually watch keeps growing: Downton Abbey, Dr. Who, Battlestar Galactica, probably some others, and now these two. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:41, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Bgwhite. You have new messages at LazyBastardGuy's talk page.
Message added 08:03, 2 September 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

LazyBastardGuy 08:03, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Barnstar of Good Humor
For the little things you add in my user page :) Magioladitis (talk) 12:49, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

August summary

  • #13 too greedy. It catches <math.h> inside source. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:24, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
  • It turns you changed the rules this month. Last month we had a link from User:Magioladitis/AWB and CHECKWIKI to a list for each error marked as "Jul dump". then we fixed something we used to replace the tag with "07/2013". -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:28, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
    • You were on vacation, so I thought it would be a good time for a coup. General Admiral Bgwhite is now in charge.
      I've been copying the errors over to the AWB_and_CHECKWIKI list as I start on them. Call me lazy. Bgwhite (talk) 06:38, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #16 had a lot of entries but in many of them the invisible character was introduced a lot time ago. I expect that next month we will have much less entries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:24, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
  • rev 9428 updates CheckWikiWithNumberListProvider to use Wmlabs instead of toolserver. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
    • I still need to refine Armenian, Farsi and Nepalese additions before releasing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 04:16, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Egads. Multi, multi lingual as well. However you do it, I need to do some translating on Checkwiki too. I'll bug you on that later. Bgwhite (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Translating is mainly done during Wikimania. I ask people who speak the language to do the job for me. :) -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Maybe you could mark as done all those with zero entries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:04, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
    • That would just be #22. It was the only one with zero entries. #87 had only false positives. Bgwhite (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #63
I can't remember if this was supposed to be added to AWB or not, but it is not catching cases of <small><sup>1</sub></small>. See 2011 Campeonato Brasileiro Série A. Bgwhite (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #37
Is is a bit out of hand? Maybe because of the redirects? -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
No. Two things.
  1. Old checkwiki thought all the permutations of dash were ok. I removed this, but I've since added some of the dashes back in because of the amount of articles.
  2. Old checkwiki only looked at the first few characters. It now checks the first 5 characters.
Bgwhite (talk) 07:45, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Limit

Working with #37 revealed that the bot list is limited to the first 15,000 edits. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:49, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

@Magioladitis: changed. Bgwhite (talk) 07:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • I basically grab the lists from the wmlabs directly now? When do we mark an error as fixed for the month? -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:02, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
    • I've been saving the lists in the usual spot and mark "done" on the checkwiki page. When I get done with a list, I mark as "bot done" or with the date. If you think it should be done different, go for it. I'm just winging it. Bgwhite (talk) 08:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
      • OK. I'll follow the new trend. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #23

All 3 cases found in wmlabs seems to be properly closed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:10, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. Bgwhite (talk) 08:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #20

I found no entries. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:39, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Ooops. I forgot to mark than one off. It had 3 entries. Bgwhite (talk) 08:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #14
Attention Profiling Mark-up Language is a false-positive.
Command-line interface is a false-positive. It uses "source1".
Pawn (scripting language) is a false-positive. It uses "sourcemod".
XOMGL is a false-positive. It uses "sourcename" and some more similar tags.
ALTO (XML) is a false-positive. It uses "sourceImageInformation".
HTML5 video is a false-positive. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Tightening the logic can solve this problem. -- Magioladitis (talk)

  • #84

84 now also catches if there are two identical section names in a row. There are quiet a few of the these. Bgwhite (talk) 05:31, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

  • #36

It turns it has no entries. Please confirm. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

It had one entry.

rev 9461 fixes all(?) possible redirect errors covered by #36. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:05, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

  • #66

It turns it has no entries. Please confirm. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

I do not remember.
  • #37

I can't save August dump. "The text you have submitted is 3,786 kilobytes long, which is longer than the maximum of 2,000 kilobytes. It cannot be saved."

  1. فلسطين.
  2. قطر.
  3. ଡାକ ମୁନ୍‌ସି
  4. ଲିଙ୍ଗରାଜ ଏବଂ ଓଡ଼ିଶାରେ ଅଶୋକାଷ୍ଟମୀ
  5. ಠ ಠ are false positives unless you know how to treat them. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
After checkwiki goes live, one of the next steps is to add a white list. Hopefully we won't have to see the above, plus the <source> false positives. #58 and #38 have over 50 false positives that you can't use a regex to weed out. Checkwiki and WPCleaner will use the same list. Bgwhite (talk) 06:21, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Btw, I use the spell out system for the Greek letters i.e. pi for π, alpha for a etc. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:25, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Hey, not everybody is Greek. You Greeks can sure be all high and mighty. It's almost as if you think Greece was the cradle of the Western World. Labs has Swedish as the default sort language, so atleast you aren't as crazy as them. Bgwhite (talk) 06:43, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
AWB will add DEFAULTSORT only if a category exists. I added this manually. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:01, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
  • #31

AutoEd seems to fix many cases of Error 31. Check Wikipedia:Village_pump_(miscellaneous)#HTML_tables_cleanup.21_Help_needed.21.21. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

@Magioladitis: Yes, I have used it in the past. It does have problems when style elements are set for each cell or row. Pywikipediabot has a much better tool called table2wiki.py. It handles complex cases. I've done ~30 pages with it and it converted them all correctly. Bgwhite (talk) 05:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
  • #87

&sect2= is a valid situation when it comes into urls. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:56, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

#87 has some serious false positive issues which are known. Bgwhite (talk) 05:37, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Translation pages of non-enwiki projects still not working. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:46, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
@Magioladitis:. I know that frwiki and arwiki are working. Which was are you looking at? Bgwhite (talk) 07:50, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
elwiki. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:01, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
@Bgwhite: el:Βικιπαίδεια:WikiProject Check Wikipedia/Μετάφραση -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:08, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
@Magioladitis: I should have rephrased it. What I meant was... Which languages that matter are you looking at?
There is no translation page for elwiki at toolserver either. I'll add it right now. Bgwhite (talk) 08:13, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm goofing up on something. I'm too tired to think. I goto bed and work on it tomorrow. Bgwhite (talk) 08:22, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
@Magioladitis: It is up. Bgwhite (talk) 17:35, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Barun Biswas

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

  • Archived copy of the main page --Tito☸Dutta 01:20, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
    One of the greatest military commanders of all-time and Biswas were in the DYK along with Whitney Houston songs and hand lotion... Sigh. Bgwhite (talk) 05:13, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Varig

I'd like to know why you keep insisting in taking the references out of the {{Reflist}} template? What's wrong with that? That's perfectly valid, and helps editing without having entire references in the editing area.--Jetstreamer Talk 22:39, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

@Jetstreamer: For the very reason why you reverted my edit. You thought I removed a reference when in fact it was already there in the body of the article. It makes things hard when there are two different referencing styles. Per WP:CITEVAR, "Imposing one style on an article with incompatible citation styles (e.g., some of the citations in footnotes and others as parenthetical references): an improvement because it makes the formatting consistent." Bgwhite (talk) 22:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, but each article's formatting is continuously evolving. That's the spìrit of Wikipedia. I'll be moving each archived reference out of the editing area again. There's no reason for not doing that.--Jetstreamer Talk 22:53, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
@Jetstreamer: All articles are continuously evolving and that is no excuse. There are 88 references with only 6 using {{Reflist=. Again see WP:CITEVAR. Prime evidence is you got messed up with the two styles. Go one way or the other, but if there are two styles with the vast majority being one style, I will do the same thing again. Bgwhite (talk) 23:08, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm not excusing from anything. I simply cannot archive all the references included in the articles I watch simultaneously.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:12, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I see you keep reverting me without any valid reason. You cannot revert anyone's edits just because you don't like their style. I will seek help from an admin.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:15, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
It's actually you reverting me. I gave a reason, you did not.
Not sure what archiving has to do with it. Nobody can watch all the references in all the articles. You didn't notice the edit that messed up the refs in the first place. I only arrived at the page because there was missing brackets. I run into 10-15 mess ups with {{Reflist= a day. Usually the huge big lettering at the bottom of the page is a dead give away. It's not a problem with {{Reflist=, but rather a problem of people using several different styles and getting them confused. Also, you don't respond until a revert happens. Try to change that next time. Bgwhite (talk) 23:22, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Which is the issue you see on that? It's a dummy process for the purpose or reading any article, but not for the editing one: having tons of references there is an editing nightmare. Do you at least concur with that? BTW, in your last edit you didn't just reverted back to a previous version, but removed the links to the archived urls I introduced.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:45, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

(I've removed the {{admin-help}} template from here and from my talk page, as I consider we can settle our differences on the matter.)--Jetstreamer Talk 23:36, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you that having a tonne of references is an editing nightmare. There are some styles that favour what type of references being used, for example the harvb style for books. Otherwise, no style helps one way or the other. They are just different. The problem comes in when using two different styles. In this case having references in two different spots makes thing difficult. Having 82 references in the body of the article and the rest in the ref section does confuse people. I see it every day. It confused you and it has confused me in the past.
You are trying to keep archived refs in the ref section. A problem is when somebody else comes along to edit the page. Do they add a ref in the ref section or the body? They don't know only archived refs go into the ref section. I understand wanting to make things simple for you. We all do that to varying degrees. However, you have to assume other people will edit the article and you have to assume you won't be editing Wikipedia forever. If I'm here in 10 years, please shoot me. Bgwhite (talk) 23:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
Great we are in agreement with something. And you're definitely right in your last two sentences. I will only reinstate the last archived references, keeping them in the original format. And in continuing with the archiving process, I will keep all of them inline. Deal?--Jetstreamer Talk 23:54, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
We are in agreement that you should shoot me if I'm still here in 10 years? Only one problem with that. My wife will have killed me off long before then. I'd say her constant nagging and shopping will cause a heart attack or stroke.
Yes, I'm fine if you keep all refs inline. You are better than me with archiving. I don't do it that often. Bgwhite (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Cool. I went ahead. Seems we have settled our differences.--Jetstreamer Talk 00:23, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Civility Barnstar
I award you this barnstar for not losing your temper when discussing with a fool like me.Jetstreamer Talk 00:40, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Perfect Storm: Disasters That Changed The World

I was just wondering why you deleted my page on this program because it was on the history channel and currently on the channel Yesterday, here in the UK.

D Eaketts (talk) 15:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Here's the deletion log. It states "G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement: http://www.ketchuptv.org/perfect-storms.html" - I've compared that page with the page that you created, and apart from the infobox, the table and the opening sentence, it's almost an exact copy. Please observe the notice displayed above the editing window. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

I could re-do the page but make it so it Wiki guidelines and not like ketchuptv's version D Eaketts (talk) 20:57, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

@D Eaketts: I copied the infobox and table into User:D_Eaketts/sandbox to save you some time as you rework the article. A sandbox is a good place to create the article without being bothered. When the article is ready, just copy it over to its final spot. Bgwhite (talk) 22:46, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks will re-do the article and will save me some time Bgwhite D Eaketts (talk) 09:33, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

September celebration: targeting the moon?

We are already racing against time. Can you please copyedit one/two article(s) as a part of—

The immediate need is Sister Christine— only copyedit, nothing else. Thank you. --Tito☸Dutta 11:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

@Titodutta: The sentence, "he continued his correspondence urging her to take care of her health and become plump." needs some background. "plump" is a weird thing to say (atleast in this day). Was she sick? Bgwhite (talk) 22:35, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Hello Bgwhite, thank you very much for copyediting the article. I don't know if Sister was ill at that time. I worked on the first part of her life, @Nvvchar: worked on the second part. But, remove all problematic portions without hesitation. The article fails to catch the essence of Sister's life (and that's not possible to do in five/seven days — Sister remained unmarried to serve India and Vivekananda — she was a too good... and polite natured person too... Sister was too good). I'll most probably ask you to copyedit a short article in this September session, so, if the copyediting work is done please leave the article as it is, I'll solve other issues including her illness, letters, etc. related discussion --Tito☸Dutta 01:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Can you please spend only 2 minutes?

... the Sister Christine article is still bish bnao jole (trying to find shore). Sister once told—

Our love for India came to birth, I think, when we first heard him (Swami Vivekananda) say the word, "India", in that marvellous voice of his. It seems incredible that so much could have been put into one small word of five letters. There was love, passion, pride, longing, adoration, tragedy, chivalry, heimweh, and again love. Whole volumes could not have produced such a feeling in others. It had the magic power of creating love in those who heard it. Even after, India became the land of heart's desire. Everything concerning her became if interest— became living— her people, her history, architecture, her manners and customs, her rivers, mountains, plains, her culture, her great spiritual concepts, her scriptures. And so culture, her great spiritual concepts, her scriptures. And so began a new life, a life of study, of meditation. The centre of interest was shifted.

Now, I have prepared this ALT hookbr.

I feel I am missing the life of the quote, specially the part "There was love, passion, pride, longing, adoration, tragedy, chivalry, heimweh, and again love", Can you spend to minutes and suggest a rewrite of the hook making it more compact, more meaningful, more informative? --Tito☸Dutta 01:46, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I've asked Mandarax for help as he is the professional at this. Besides, you turned down my hook of her needing to be plump.  :). First time I recall seeing the word heimweh. A hook combining the two following sentences would be good. I think the sentences are the strongest in the paragraph... "It had the magic power of creating love in those who heard it. Even after, India became the land of heart's desire." Bgwhite (talk) 02:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Well, I have a suggestion in an entirely different direction. I don't want to unnecessarily complicate the nomination in case you don't like my suggestion, so I'm just listing it here rather than on the nomination page. If you do like it, feel free to copy it over there. (And if so, the article will need an additional inline citation immediately after the hook fact.)
  • ... that Indian Hindu monk Swami Vivekananda asked Sister Christine's (pictured) permission to read her mind so he could ascertain if she was mentally prepared for initiation?
  • In any case, good luck with this and the rest of your Vivekananda project. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 09:13, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Thank you for reading the whole article and suggesting a wonderful hook, but, I am confused here ....
Details of my confusion

a) Vivekananda not only asked Christine's permission, but he reportedly read her mind too. b) The suggested hook mentions "thought reading" which is a scientifically unacknowledged act. Vivekananda reported exhibited his supernatural activities several times such as—

  • Emma Calvé, the French operatic soprano, told, when she met Vivekananda... "then in a quite voice, untroubled and aloof, this man, who did not even know my name, talked to me of my secret problems and anxieties. He spoke of things that I thought were unknown even to my nearest friends" Ref: Vivekananda, Swami (1996). My India : the India eternal (1st ed. ed.). Calcutta: Ramakrishna Mission Institute of Culture. p. 177. ISBN 81-85843-51-1. {{cite book}}: |edition= has extra text (help)
  • When Vivekananda met American industrialist John D. Rockefeller.... "as with Calve, Swamiji told Rockfeller much about his past that was not known to anyone but himself." Ref: Same book, p=178
  • Vivekananda reportedly had the power to read thinks very very fast. "He would simply turn over the pages of a book quite hurriedly from beginning to the end, and that was all — the book had been read.". ref He reportedly read and memorized 11 volumes of Encyclopædia Britannica in just few hours.

But, Vivekananda himself always discouraged to highlight these supernatural activities (I am not comparing, but Gautama Buddha and and most probably Jesus also discouraged highlighting their supernatural abilities). For example, in an interview published in The Memphis Commercial on 15 January 1894, he told— "What have those things to do with religion?" he asked. "Do they make a man purer? The Satan of your Bible is powerful, but differs from God in not being pure."

So I am confused here. If you think it is okay, we can go ahead with your suggested hook. Else, if you suggest a compact hook from the Sister's quote on "India" above, that will be very helpful. --Tito☸Dutta 10:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
The hook I suggested merely reports on his asking to read her mind. I wouldn't want a hook which says or implies that he actually read it. But if he discouraged the highlighting of such things, you may not want to use that on the Main Page.

For the hook you listed above, I would just put some parts in quotation marks: ... that, according to Sister Christine (pictured), her "love for India came to birth" when she first heard Swami Vivekananda uttering the word "India" in his "marvellous voice"? As for incorporating another part of the quote.... The following, at about 194 characters excluding (pictured) which doesn't count, isn't exactly a "compact hook", but it's still under the limit: ... that Sister Christine (pictured) said that Swami Vivekananda's mere uttering of the word "India" stirred emotions of "love, passion, pride, longing, adoration, tragedy, chivalry, heimweh, and again love"? MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

  • Ooops, I did not notice this post in watchlist, thought you have not replied here and went forward with the above mentioned hook (since we are targeting 15 Sept's DYK slot). I am seeing if @Crisco 1492: is online and review this alt hook shortly. --Tito☸Dutta 04:49, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Sister Christine

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Reply

Yeah, I'm just noticing that. Sorry. It was moved to the wrong article name and I didn't exactly know how to move it back. Rusted AutoParts 08:33, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Stockholm University

Hi! i had problems with updating the infobox because the "university inbox"-template wouldn't let me edit. I was only updating the information so that the numbers would be more current and not old or misguiding. But now since you "restored" the infobox to its old out-of-date state, i have to ask why you couldnt have let the numbers remain updated at least? Best regards! — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheoraclePete (talk • contribs) 11:19, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

@TheoraclePete: Not sure what you mean by it wouldn't let you edit it. You can edit everything on the Stockholm University page. There are even additional parameters you can use, see Template:Infobox university. Bgwhite (talk) 17:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

List of refrigerants

I am leaving this message with you as you had previously edited List of refrigerants. I noticed that an edit 'scrambled' the column position of a significant amount of data. The scrambling would be tedious to remedy by hand. I reverted to this version by 5 July 2012 EmausBot which is previous to the problem edits. This may have undid one of your edits. Please consider reapplying your edit, if necessary. You may want to discuss changes on talk:List of refrigerants#Reverted to 5 July 2012 EmausBot edit. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 04:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and question regarding a page you edited

Hi,

Thank you very much for taking the time to visit the Camille and Kennerly Kitt page and for cleaning up some of the links to other Wikipedia pages, especially the ones with Spanish accents, which worked the way I had done them, but were quite unsightly; however, oddly enough, you can see on the Emirates247 page that the "|" does apply to the article I mentioned. It's strange, but there's an Emirates 24/7 and an Emirates 24|7. I'm surprised and glad I was able to link the page including the "|" in it. Anyway, I was wondering if you could help with the references section since you offered assistance, but maybe not for that, so I'm just asking. An administrator told me today that both styles that you can see on the Harp Twins page are deficient. If you look at the page history, not long ago we had a format that I was very fond of and easy to use but she said it was poor, and now there's basically a different format (except for my brand new edits), and she says it's better but still not good enough.

Anyway, again, thanks for your kind help, and have a nice day. And if you don't have time for the references section, I fully understand. Dontreader (talk) 07:45, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, which I just saw. I'm no good at templates so I'll just take out the "|" if that's causing an error message (I doubt anyone will file a formal complaint!). Thanks again... Dontreader (talk) 07:51, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Dontreader, no problem. I look at the refs and the template tomorrow. I'm about to goto be for the evening. Bgwhite (talk) 07:55, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi again, Bgwhite. Since I don't want to abuse your generosity, again on the Camille and Kennerly Kitt page, I would much rather, at this point, see if you think what I did is suitable in the discography section, and forget about the template for references since I understand your time is very valuable. You can see in the history of the article that at the top of the discography section there used to be links intended to be references to prove that the tracks actually do exist, but another user took then down a couple of hours ago, claiming that it made the page look like it was trying to promote sales of the MP3s. So I decided to reinsert the line "Camille and Kennerly have released several of their harp duet arrangements on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, CD Baby and SoundCloud." without the links to where you can buy their music directly. That way, in my opinion, any Wikipedian can verify that the discography section is true, while not directly advertising the music. Please compare the two versions, and please let me know if you think this is a reasonable compromise. I'm worried that someone might take down the entire discography section. I hope this won't take up much of your time. As I said, please forget about the template for the references section. Many thanks in advance. Dontreader (talk) 12:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Dontreader Unfortunately, your proposal still sounds like your promoting the sale of the music. This is a tricky area as there are no clear boundaries between what is promotional and what is a reference. You can use a link to iTunes or Amazon if it references a statement. I most commonly see these sites used when referencing when music was released. So, in the table, you can use a iTunes/Amazon/Google link as a reference to when the single was released.
I just removed references to IMDb from the article. IMDb is a user generated content site just like Wikipedia. You can't use Wikipedia as a ref for the same reason.
You are probably confused and bewildered about all the rules. Music articles are the #1 articles for abuse. Because of this, editors tend to look at music articles with a finer tooth comb. I remember writing my first articles and being confused about reference style and why the articles couldn't look one way. You will get frustrated, flustered and angry. Bgwhite (talk) 18:13, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Many thanks, Bgwhite. First of all, I totally understand why you removed the IMDb references, and I'm grateful that you took the time to read the article to some degree or another to notice that mistake. I also see your point regarding the fine line between what is promotional and what is a reference. But then, I'm not sure if I understand your suggestion correctly; I mean, for example, are you saying it's okay if I include an iTunes link in the discography table, next to each single, that takes the user to the page where the single can be bought, and which supports the release date information of each single? And in the case of the singles that are only available on SoundCloud, can I do the same thing with SoundCloud links? I ask because again it seems like someone might come and take it all down again, claiming that it's promotional. Please let me know if I understood correctly. And regarding getting frustrated and angry, there is really only one person who has made me feel that way, apart from the user who nominated the article for deletion several months ago. I think it's a shame that there are very rude people out there, such as Duffbeerforme, who constantly roam Wikipedia behaving in a manner that is inconsistent with Wikipedia guidelines. Never courteous or constructive, or suggesting other ways to do things better; just highly destructive, making Wikipedia a war zone. I don't understand why the community has not told him to behave properly. That one person is the reason why I won't donate to Wikipedia again. I really wish something could be done, such as warnings from administrators. Anyway, thanks again for your help and your thoughts, and please let me know if I understood you correctly regarding the links in the discography table. Many thanks in advance. Dontreader (talk) 21:30, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Dontreader Yes, it is ok to... "...I include an iTunes link in the discography table, next to each single, that takes the user to the page where the single can be bought, and which supports the release date information of each single?". As with everything, there are some caveats. If there is another source, such as a reliable review or news article that mentions the release date, then use that ref over the iTunes link. I'm not certain on this, but I wouldn't put up SoundCloud links. Those are put up by the musician(s), therefore they are a primary source and possibly unreliable.
Sorry to hear about your experience with Duffbeerforme. I don't recall having any interaction with them. Wikipedia mirrors the real world, so there are all types of editors around here who all have different moods at different times. Plus, as with every organization, there are the politics. Bgwhite (talk) 22:56, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
That's truly great news! I appreciate your time and help very much, Bgwhite. As soon as I get rid of this massive headache, I will include the iTunes links, as you indicated, but not the SoundCloud links, for the reasons you mentioned. If I find other reliable sources later on, which I hope will be the case, I will use them instead of iTunes. I told Duffbeerforme on the talk page of the article that you said it was okay to do this. I truly hope not to take up any more of your time or abuse your generosity, but if he reverts that edit which I have not yet made, I will be forced to come back and ask you to please intervene. Thanks again, and have a nice day. Dontreader (talk) 00:36, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

zzebra138's changes

First, sorry. I just found the history page and know now the reason I've been so frustratee. i've only used wiki before, never edited it so assumee I could just show up with a bunch of things and post. Can I get in toufch with you to talk more?--Zzebra138 (talk) 05:41, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

You are always welcome to leave a message here or your talk page. The talk conversation just above this was about music and getting thing right. I'm around here at weird hours, so I might not respond quickly. Bgwhite (talk) 05:51, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

(Another) Tryst with destiny

A couple of weeks ago, we (also) made a tryst with destiny, and now the time is coming when we shall redeem our pledge, not wholly or in full measure, but very substantially.

On 7 September, we planned Swami Vivekananda DYK celebration and felt it was like targeting the moon. But, by the grace of Krishna, we have almost accomplished our goal. Please see updates here:

I have chosen the article Arise, awake, and stop not till the goal is reached as our last article in this festival. The theme of the article perfectly matches with the theme of the DYK celebration. The DYK nomination has already been passed. But, would please spend few minutes to revise the article and fix wording/grammar etc errors if you find any? --Tito☸Dutta 16:22, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Recent BG19bot edit has incorrect edit summary

In this edit your BG19bot identified the edit it was making as "WP:CHECKWIKI error fix for #59. Remove br tag at end of parameter." However, it didn't remove a BR tag. Instead it changed the template name to remove a redirection. So, the edit seems to have been OK, it was just the description of what it was doing that appears to have been erroneous. —RP88 (talk) 08:14, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

RP88 I would normally say the article ended up on the checkwiki list a few days ago, but was fixed since then. However, in this case, the bot must have decided to protest the harsh treatment I've been giving it and not fix the problem. I think I need to look over the #59 edits to see if there were some more problem. Thank you for telling me. Bgwhite (talk) 08:39, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
No problem, I just figured I'd mention it in case it was symptomatic of a deeper issue. I'm happy to hear that you're going to take a closer look. —RP88 (talk) 08:48, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
{{U|RP88} Could you bug me in 4-5 days if you don't hear back from me. I'm on a semi-break for a few days and can't get to it right away. If I get a few new talk messages, I tend to forget what is above. I need to figure this out so the bot doesn't do the same thing and fill up watchlists. Bgwhite (talk) 06:03, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thank you for your support, nothing is like working with something and get acknowledge for it. Hats off to you, sir. :) TheoraclePete (talk) 08:20, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Cool use of AWB

I notice you used AWB to remove a redlink from a list with this edit. How did you set AWB up to do that? Being able to use AWB to remove non-notable list entries would be incredibly helpful. Thanks, IronGargoyle (talk) 04:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

IronGargoyle I have bad news for you. It was essentially a manual edit. I came to fix the messed up external link on the 'The Whiptones'. I made Whiptones a wikilink to see if it had an article. When I previewed the page, Whiptones was a red link and I noticed 'The Orients' was also a red link, so I deleted both. Sorry. Bgwhite (talk) 05:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Arise, awake, and stop not till the goal is reached

Tito☸Dutta 10:11, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moazzam Mirza

You put a speedy tag on this some while ago, so I thought this might interest you. I may have deleted it as copyvio by the time you see it however. I've already deleted 2 other articles by this editor as copyvio. Dougweller (talk) 14:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Tony Hwang

I received your message about the Tony Hwang changes, is it possible to revert it back to the May 2013 page, which was previously approved/used on the Wikipedia site? Also, why is the image being removed? Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iwdseo (talk • contribs) 16:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

May 2013 pages was "approved". It's just nobody noticed it. I reverted it back, but removed the Focus section. I added the image back in. Bgwhite (talk) 07:43, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Thanks for editing Alekhine Nouri. Allenjambalaya (talk) 09:16, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Bad AWB edit

In this edit, your AWB script made the broken wikitext be even more broken. Anomie⚔ 19:36, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

ISBN revert

My apologies on reverting your edit. It was not intended. Your edit followed the insertion of spam by Globalpulisya. I was considering how to revert the spam with your subsequent edit when I accidentally reverted your edit. Globalpulisya inserted the spam in several articles to promote what I presume is his/her book, supported only by a self published reference. I deleted the same paragraph in the article where I accidentally reverted your correct edit, and in Coffee, Manila Hotel, Filipinophile, and List of fictional African countries. Again, my profuse apologies. Darrell_Greenwood (talk) 22:37, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

What I said about Duff

Hi BgWhite,

I explained here several hours ago that you had misunderstood me to some degree, and I felt the need to clarify the situation, but I have deleted what I wrote. I promise that I will not make any theological assessments about other users on Wikipedia ever again. You are right. I was wrong. This is not the venue for such comments. Regards, Dontreader (talk) 11:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi again, BgWhite,
Thank you very much for the time you have spent on the resolution of this conflict between another user and myself, especially since such matters are surely very unpleasant to deal with, and your valuable time could obviously be used for other purposes. Therefore, as I said, I am very grateful to you, and I wish I had written sooner, bur for some reason I'm currently not getting notified via email or directly on Wikipedia when my talk page gets modified. I promise I will NEVER mention that editor again, on any page, as you demanded. Have a nice day... Dontreader (talk) 23:29, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Dontreader Up at the top right-hand of the page, click "preferences". Then click on the "notifications" tab.
You are welcome to leave me a message if you have problems or questions. Bgwhite (talk) 23:38, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Klein quartic

This edit severely broke the formatting (of the last paragraph of the lead section) of Klein quartic. I don't entirely understand why, nor how to get the boldface to work correctly with wikiformatting instead of <b> tags. But perhaps previewing your changes, or at least postviewing them, would have been appropriate. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:22, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Or better yet, don't introduce bad invisible characters so a minor change doesn't have to be previewed on bot runs. Bgwhite (talk) 05:50, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Those of us making human rather than bot edits don't see these supposed fnords. So how are we supposed to not add them? —David Eppstein (talk) 06:50, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
David Eppstein Never heard the word "fnord" before. I like the following statement on fnord's wiki page, "...with the implication of a worldwide conspiracy" It's a conspiracy, we aren't supposed to see them. :) If I could write better, it would have made sense... bots can't see them either and there is no preview mode. Honest answer, we really can't. HotCat loves adding invisible Unicode characters. But, Visual Editor and people who copy-paste from another source also add them. Usually I use http://rishida.net/tools/conversion/. Copy the article's text in the "Mixed Input" box, click convert and go hunting for Unicode characters in the Unicode box. In the Klein quartic case, it wasn't a Unicode character, so the page didn't help. Bgwhite (talk) 07:07, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Re Dontreader

Just letting you know I won't be following your suggestion not to work on their articles. Aside from there being no such thing I am not going to reward Dontreader's poor behaviour like that.
On the no personal attacks, yes it would be better if someone else left that sort of message but who is going to? You didn't, despite one of the attacks being on your own talk page, instead you enabled him. "very rude", "Never courteous or constructive", "just highly destructive". By itself fairly insignificant attack and ignored at that time. Who else, none of the other third parties he complained about me to, each of them in isolation fairly insignificant. Add them up, he's running around all over the other place defaming me.
What was my history with him at that point of his above post? Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Camille and Kennerly Kitt (the likely catalyst for his hatred of me), [1] and my total of three edits to his shrine [2], [3], [4]. That's what kicked of his campaign. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:42, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Duffbeerforme. Per WP:IBAN, I can ban you from interacting with Dontreader and I'm doing it. It does not matter what previous experience you had with Dontreader. Other editors did complain about you behavior. You did specifically target other editor's articles for deletion. This is not about what Dontreader did or did not do as I'm addressing what you did. I did tell Dontreader if I see a personal attack again, I will block them. Bgwhite (talk) 17:57, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, you meant user and talk pages, interaction I will avoid doing (and no you can't impose a ban).
What my experience was was relevant to my question, who else?, and in the context of that question relevant to your decision to sympathise with the attack, enabling his behaviour.
User:Stjohnny also complained about me. Should I have avoided exposing his fraud because of it? No. Someone complaining about me does not make me wrong.
There is nothing wrong with nominating articles for deletion. This was Bold, that Reverted, then comes Discuss.
If someone is introducing problems into Wikipedia it's not unreasonable to look at that editor's contributions to see if it's a wider issue. If I see a problem it is a good thing to fix it. It's not harassment. You assuming the worst about my actions does not make them wrong. This was clearly flawed, adding a discogs link does not prove notability. Spam links to shops do not prove notability. Do I ignore it because someone might not like me? duffbeerforme (talk) 04:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
It appears I have a serious demonic affliction. Maybe I should blame everything on that. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:00, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Sigh, you seem so concerned about other people's behavior that you can't see your own problems. Again, I'm not focusing on what other people did here. I've also addressed it with them and threatened blocks if they do it again. I also agree what they did was far worse than what you did. In this discussion, it is about you. Admins can impose interaction bans which also cover reverting other people's edits. I have seen you targeting editor's articles for deletion. It's one thing to revert some spam, it's another to revert in a curt way and getting involved in an edit war.
You work in the area of music around here. From my experience of patrolling new pages (biographies only), it has to be the worst area. The only thing worse than music is K-pop and J-pop. Everyone who has sung in the shower thinks they are notable and many are willing to fight to the death for their article. I fully understand your frustration with Dontreader from the very beginning. What I'm trying to do here is for both of you not to have any interaction for awhile. If you revert an edit or partially erase one, I'm afraid of what is going to happen. I don't want to see either one of you getting blocked. Truthfully, I'm more afraid of what will happen with Dontreader because he already crossed the line and you haven't. But, I don't want to see you dragged over the line either. I'd also advise you not to touch one of Robcamstone's articles for the same reason. If you think one of Robcamstone's articles should be slapped with a PROD or AfD, ask someone else to take a look. I have no problem if you ask me.
I might be tempted to say you are suffering a demonic affliction, but my mother-in-law is the spawn of Satan. I have seen her and her demons possess my wife and try to turn my wife against me. Sorry, you aren't afflicted. However, you do still hold your seat at Springfield's Republican Party Headquarters. Bgwhite (talk) 05:29, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
I brought it up again because of it's relevance to the question I asked, Who else? And that question is relevant to my own action, one you have said was wrong.
It is up to the community to impose bans, individual administrators may not directly impose bans (there is a few exceptions, this is not one).
You have not seen me targeting editor's articles for deletion, you have seen me nominating substandard articles for deletion (nothing wrong with that). Nominating articles like that is asking someone else to take a look. I became aware of them from looking at his editing history (nothing wrong with that) but I didn't nominate them because they were "his".
You are once again asserting ownership of articles, perpetuating a cause of the issues here.
Do you me to not touch one of "Robcamstone's articles" because I was once rude to him, because he doesn't like me, because he owns them, because you don't want me getting blocked (for what?) or other?
Leading Ladies (album) should go to afd following someone’s pointy reverts [5], [6]. Re-adding spam links does not show notability. Shops are not reliable sources. A notability tag was placed on the page asking for help to improve it. Someone removed that tag despite not making any improvements. A search found no better sources. Time to bring it to a wider audience. Same with CATS (Original London Cast Recording), see pointy revert [7]. (That article is about a 1998 double CD, not a ~1982 release). duffbeerforme (talk) 04:23, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
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