User talk:BarrelProof/Archive 10

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Names of games

Hi BarrelProof, thanks for all your hard work on Wikipedia. Please be careful moving the names of certain types of game like Bookie Domino simply in order to make them lower case. Games compendia almost invariably capitalise the names of such games because they are often not well known (unlike golf and football), and putting them in lower case can cause confusion both with terms used in games and with working out what the actual name of the game is. Even in North America, where the trend towards lower case is most advanced, American games authors still use title case. If reliable sources use a convention, Wikipedia should reflect it. At the very least, it should not deprecate the very sources it is representing. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 08:18, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I wonder whether you are familiar with the aspects I mentioned in my edit summary: MOS:GAMECAPS and recent RMs at Talk:Fuzzy duck and Talk:Snakes and ladders. There is also one at Talk:Dozens (game). I myself was thinking that uppercase was appropriate until those discussions. I think Wikipedia internal consistency is also desirable, and there is an established Wikipedia convention about capitalization of the names of games. I see that you have not reverted my move of Bookie Domino to Bookie domino. If you dislike that move, please feel free to revert it or to open an RM discussion. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:09, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi again and, yes, I did read the edit summary and am familiar with Wikipedia conventions. I do think agree it is important that Wikipedia has a style so that editors don't indiscriminately write and spell in idiosyncratic ways. But Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and is meant to reflect WP:RELIABLESOURCES. As a games researcher I have a library of over 300 English sources from the 17th century to the present and they invariably use title case for domino games. So if Wikipedia mandates lower case it will be virtually unique and setting itself above the sources. That said, the world we live in is not monotone and there are exceptions to the title case convention out there. Firstly, a few very common and widely known games such as poker and blackjack normally appear in lower case in the press, novels and other general reading and I have no problem with that in general articles. Also single-topic books on e.g. poker usually use lower case since it's quite clear and no confusion would arise. Interestingly it's not universal. The books on Five-Up by American domino player, Dominic Armanino, refer to the game as "Five-up" in the text and not "five-up".
There are numerous examples of Wikipedia breaking with its own style rules to reflect the real world - botanical names for plants, lower case titles for e.g. eBay - using "A" or "The" in titles, something which is normally deprecated, and so on. In other words, over time the style rules get modified and become more nuanced as we understand the sources better.
BTW I haven't reverted your move because I prefer to encourage healthy discussion and consensus, and moving articles can seems at bit antagonistic. Cheers. Bermicourt (talk) 09:22, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps one way to help settle it could be for me to start an RM discussion for Mexican Train, as it seems to be a similar game. I could mention Bookie domino as part of the reason that I filed the RM instead of performing a bold move. — BarrelProof (talk) 12:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Just seen this. Yes, let's stop reverting until we have a consensus. Lots of games have proper names anyway; I assume they're not an issue. Bermicourt (talk) 17:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I've carried out further research on Bookie domino and cannot find any use of that name in English sources. In Austrian sources it's capitalized and hyphenated as "Bookie-Domino". I have found English sources that use the German names "Buki-Domino" and "Buki" in that format so I've moved it to the former, simply because it seems clearer, and cleaned up the names to align with the literature. The original name, "Bookie domino" is an English translation that is not found in any sources. HTH. Bermicourt (talk) 19:09, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
I have opened the RM at Talk:Mexican Train, so let's continue there. — BarrelProof (talk) 01:08, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 January 2021

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Joss Whedon

re: your clarification request. I meant towards Trachtenberg; no way of clarifying succinctly comes immediately to my mind but I welcome your help. Gershonmk (talk) 23:07, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Reaching out for an Interview

Hello, I am a student at IUPUI, studying Human-Computer Interaction. We have a project regarding the social processes of communication online. We picked Wikipedia talk pages, specifically that of IUPUI. For your comments on that page, we would like to interview you and ask some questions. It should take no more than a hour (over Zoom, preferably) and we greatly appreciate your help. Thank you.

CheeseCommander (talk) 16:04, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

P.S. I am also very new to Wikipedia, so I'm assuming you might reply to this section on your talk page. Hopefully I will get a notification if you do. Thanks again!

Edit: This is relatively urgent, we would like to talk before Monday, February 22. Thanks! CheeseCommander (talk) 16:22, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't think I'm interested. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:31, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
That's okay. Thank you for responding promptly, we greatly appreciate it! Have a great day! CheeseCommander (talk) 16:31, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Single malt question

BP, what's your take on the hyphen question, e.g. as discussed at User_talk:Rule_56#Hyphens? I find the hyphen not uncommon in sources, and it seems right to me, but there's an argument that that misinterprets the intended meaning. Does it? Dicklyon (talk) 00:23, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

After studying it a bit, I support Ian Dalziel's view. I strongly disagree with the suggestion that the fact that the term is restricted to whisky produced at a single distillery is only incidental, and I do think that "single-malt" would seem to imply using one malted grain and would imply that this is the only significant restriction described by the term, which is false. It is also worth noting that "Single Grain Scotch Whisky" is not made from a single grain; it is made at a single distillery but not from a single grain. Think about that for a minute! I also believe I have seen the term much more often without the hyphen than with it. The Scotch Whisky Regulations 2009 and the Scotch Whisky Association guidance about them do not include a hyphen, and it's a concept most closely associated with Scotch whisky. In fact, the restriction to a single distillery is listed first in the list of restrictions in the regulations. Also, the SWA summarizes the regulations by saying "the description 'Single Malt Scotch Whisky' must appear in exactly that form" (emphasis added), and the only allowed modification is that "it can be preceded by a description such as 'Speyside' or 'Islay'", describing the location of the distillery. I also looked on the web at some bottle labels, and none of them include a hyphen. The Irish regulation language also does not include a hyphen. (The phrase is not used in the U.S. federal regulations.) — BarrelProof (talk) 01:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
The definition of "Single Grain Scotch Whisky" given by the SWA is "a Scotch Whisky distilled at a single distillery but which, in addition to water and malted barley, may also be produced from whole grains of other malted or unmalted cereals." I conclude that "Single" refers primarily to the use of a single distillery, because this clearly has no restriction to the use of a single grain. (Note that this not only allows multiple non-barley grains to be used, but that barley itself is also a grain.) — BarrelProof (talk) 05:06, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I accept that explanation and interpretation. It does appear with hyphen, however, not uncommonly as I noted, so the misinterpretation is pretty widespread (probably a lot more misinterpret than hyphenate based on that interpretation). Dicklyon (talk) 06:00, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, it does seem to be used. I did some searching within Wikipedia and did not find any hyphenated uses so far, except on the single-grain dab page. I fixed that one. Unfortunately, the search function doesn't seem to distinguish between a space and a hyphen. — BarrelProof (talk) 06:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
A similar use of "single" is "single pot still whiskey". Here again, "single" refers to a single distillery (not a single pot still or a single mash ingredient). — BarrelProof (talk) 07:15, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Charlie's Place

I see you looked at my draft. Do you think the topic is notable enough?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:51, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, although it will probably never be a very lengthy and detailed article. — BarrelProof (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:38, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's proper to ask you to participate, but this move discussion depends very much on the notability of the topic of my draft.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:47, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
In fact, as you might suspect, it was the move discussion that led me to go look at your article. So far it looks like all comments are supportive of moving the other article and turning your draft into an article. — BarrelProof (talk) 18:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

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"MOS:×" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect MOS:×. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 23#MOS:× until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 12:08, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

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Global

I just went in and ctrl+f for everything. Is there a bot or something that can do it? 162.208.168.92 (talk) 03:15, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I think there is, but I haven't figured it out yet myself. There's something called Wikipedia:Dab solver, but I haven't learned how to use it and it seems to have some problems. — BarrelProof (talk) 03:36, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Maybe WP:DisamAssist? 162.208.168.92 (talk) 03:58, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Looks worth a try. — BarrelProof (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

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May 24, 2021

Please stop your disruptive editing. Wikipedia aims to provide a safe environment for its collaborators, and harassing other users, as you did on Vasa_(ship), potentially compromises that safe environment. If you continue to harass other editors, you may be blocked from editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KB1338 (talk • contribs) 05:03, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the frank communication, and back at you, but congratulations on your amazingly rapid learning of how to edit Wikipedia. It takes most people a long time to learn how to master the use of reverts and templates like that, but you managed to do that with your very first edits! — BarrelProof (talk) 15:19, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Relighted signature discussion

As you were the first one to address concern with my signature (see User talk:DeNoel/Archive 1#Your custom signature), I would like to personally ask (I know, I've already pinged you) if you wish to reevaluate it at this time? Please do not feel in any way unwanted in the current discussion—I am personally inviting your opinion on the matter, and value it. Under the current discussion, it has been suggested that concerns with broad implications, should be handled broadly first. Do you wish to propose changes to Wikipedia:Signatures? — Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 18:45, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for such a friendly note despite our difference of perspectives. — BarrelProof (talk) 21:32, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

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Greetings!

Greetings BarrelProof! I have fixed your issue at Talk:Queen of Ghana#Requested move 12 August 2021. So, could you strike your comment there? Peter Ormond 💬 02:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Done. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:09, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

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Nomination of Jack Angel (SHC) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jack Angel (SHC) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jack Angel (SHC) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

--Bejnar (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't think I was the one who created that article, although I do have a dim memory of trying to clean it up a little. I had to do a web search and find a copy of the old article before I even remembered what it was – apparently the "SHC" stood for "spontaneous human combustion", and probably it was the subject of a WP:RM at some point because of that strange abbreviation in the title. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:08, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

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Old Oak Tree

Hello BarrelProof. I don't think there is a need for a hatnote at the top of Old Oak Tree. What do you think? Paul Vaurie (talk) 00:56, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure about it. If you remove it, I don't plan to add it back. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:29, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
After further thought, I think the hatnote (now at Basking Ridge White Oak Tree, but still the target of Old Oak Tree) is desirable. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:08, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

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DYK nomination of Murder of Jared Lakey

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Edits on Lemons page?

Hi BarrelProof - I get the impression from your comments on the page I am working on that I might be doing some things wrong. I have not edited a large volume of pages, but this particular subject I know very well. Are you willing to assist me with some of the processes/procedures I might not be doing correctly? I'm not malicious in my intent, just somewhat of a noob with some things. Thanks Jcordle (talk) 17:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

@Jcordle:: Yes, indeed I am willing to help. You may notice that although I have expressed myself in a somewhat irritated tone, I have not (yet) directly opposed your request to rename the article, and I have not directly accused you of having a bad intent. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:59, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 24

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited 2015 shooting of Eric Harris, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Secret Service.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:58, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Murder of Jared Lakey

On 25 November 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Murder of Jared Lakey, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the police officers who murdered Jared Lakey on July 4, 2019, shocked him more than 50 times with tasers even though he was unarmed and not combative? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Murder of Jared Lakey. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Murder of Jared Lakey), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for putting this together. I was thinking of writing it shortly after reading about the event but decided at the time it wasn't clearly notable (yet). After reading about the convictions I came back to it and was pleasantly surprised to see it already created. Good work! Levivich 22:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks! I had not heard about the case at all until after the conviction – and immediately wrote an article. I was surprised at how little attention this abhorrent incident received. As with another article that I wrote on the shooting of Ryan Whitaker, it is important to remember that violent death meted out by police officers does not always involve racism. And as with another article I wrote on the shooting of Jamarion Robinson, it is important for police to consider the mental state of the people they encounter. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:22, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Hook update
Your hook reached 9,809 views (817.4 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of November 2021 – nice work!

theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 05:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

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Ramesh Balwani

Hi BarrelProof, diff - would you be able to correct this, as was done with Elizabeth Holmes? I'm concerned the defense's narrative of Holmes as victim and Balwani as fall-guy is creeping into Wikipedia as fact. I am not up to date on recent court revelations to edit with confidence. There is also United States v. Elizabeth A. Holmes, et al.. -- GreenC 02:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know about that. I made similar edits to the other two articles. It's important, of course, that inaccurate information be removed as quickly as possible. However, I don't really have much time to study the case. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

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