Template:Did you know nominations/Tommy Lockhart

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 15:24, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Tommy Lockhart[edit]

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5x expanded by Flibirigit (talk). Self-nominated at 21:43, 7 October 2018 (UTC).

  • DYK checklist template

General eligibility:

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: Yes
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Earwigged the article; possible copyvios were either organization or place names, or common phrases. Article has been expanded approximately 10X, and is verging on being over-cited. Hooks are good, with the first one clearly the best. However, I run into difficulties with sourcing for the hooks. I am unable to discern whether the source given for the four hooks is a website, or a document gathered from a printed source. As I recall, a website must have a bibliography to be a reliable source. I am putting the nom on hold while awaiting clarification.

Additionally, even though it is not needed for DYK review, I would like to note my uneasiness about the photo used in the article, as it is not free of copyright.Georgejdorner (talk) 19:20, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

@Georgejdorner: ALT0, ALT2 & ALT 3 are cited as per a document on The Chuck Miller Creative Writing Service web site. ALT1 is cited from flyer available on the USA Hockey web site database. The photo used in the article is copyrighted and used under a fair use license, only for that article. I have deliberately not put the photo in this nomination as only free license photos may be featured on the front page. In other words, this hook would not appear in the photo slot. Flibirigit (talk) 20:57, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
Hi Georgejdorner the fair use image of a deceased person is properly licensed and should not affect the eligibility of this nomination. As the nominator points out, it's not being submitted for appearance on the main page, which would not be allowed. Best, Yoninah (talk) 23:28, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
A careful reading of my above comment will tell you that I am not holding up this nom for the photo. I merely commented on it, seeking information to satisfy my curiousity. Please pay attention.
I still need the ambiguity about the source clarified. I would like to see this nom run. I think the first hook about the bear is a hoot.15:06, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
@Georgejdorner: ALT0, ALT2 & ALT 3 are cited as per a document on The Chuck Miller Creative Writing Service web site. ALT1 is cited from flyer available on the USA Hockey web site database. Do you feel those are not reliable sources? Do you have other questions? Flibirigit (talk) 15:25, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the education on the photo's permission. I am still unraveling the rules in WikiCommons, and you helped me with that.
Thank you also for the clarification that websites were involved. As part of judging their reliability, I was inquiring whether either website has a bibliography contained somewhere within it. The Chuck Miller website would seem to be unreliable per WP policy as a commercial site. See WP:RS for details.Georgejdorner (talk) 17:39, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
@Georgejdorner: I respectfully disagree that a person such as Chuck Miller who has published numerous books is an unreliable resource. There are many of his works listed in online book catalogues and on Amazon, and his web site includes a list of his works. The PDF file you are questioning is a copy of an article published in Hockey Ink!, Vol. III, Iss. 2. If I had a physical copy of the magazine, I would gladly reference it. Also, the information on the grizzly bear act is also cited from two books by Stan Fischler, as per the citations in the Tommy Lockhart article. Do you feel the Fischler books are reliable? Flibirigit (talk) 17:58, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
You are missing the point, Flibirigit. I haven't even mentioned any of the authors you reference. The point is that Chuck Miller's website is ineligible as a reliable source for two reasons. One, he is selling his goods and services on the site, making it a commercial website, and commercial websites are not acceptable. Two, it is self-published, and thus can be used for only limited purposes (per WP:SPS), not including citations.
I haven't checked into the other sources, such as Fischler, as they are not linked to a hook.
As matters now stand, your original hook, ALT2, and ALT3 are sourced to the ineligible Chuck Miller website, while ALT1 connects to a commercial insurance company website. Because you have no valid sources at present for any of your hooks, I would be justified in failing the nom. I would rather give you the opportunity to switch in a valid cite or cites.Georgejdorner (talk) 01:32, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Great, we can start from scratch with new hooks and citations below. Flibirigit (talk) 01:52, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Source = Pages 41–43 from Fischler, Stan (2013). We Are the Rangers: The Oral History of the New York Rangers. Triumph Books. pp. 33–48. ISBN 978-1-60078-867-3.
Source 1 = Allen, Kevin (2011). Star-Spangled Hockey: Celebrating 75 Years of USA Hockey. Chicago, Illinois: Triumph Books. ISBN 9781633190870. When Tom Lockhart began running the American Hockey Assocation of the United States (AHAUS) out of his New York City apartment in 1937, all of the registrations and paperwork fit comfortably into a standard shoebox.
Source 2 = Thompson, Harry (2015–16). "Digger: A Lifetime Of Leadership". USA Hockey Magazine. Retrieved 2018-10-13. But after 40 years of service to an organization that grew from a shoebox in Tom Lockhart's New York City apartment to a leader in the Olympic movement, one doesn't have to look hard to see his fingerprints over every facet of USA Hockey.
Source = pages 35 & 36 from Fischler, Stan (2013). We Are the Rangers: The Oral History of the New York Rangers. Triumph Books. ISBN 978-1-60078-867-3.
Source = page 38 from Fischler, Stan (2013). We Are the Rangers: The Oral History of the New York Rangers. Triumph Books. pp. 33–48. ISBN 978-1-60078-867-3.
    • ALT4, ALT5, ALT6, and ALT7 are now properly cited and are good to go. Nom approved for DYK.
    • Also, apologies to Yoninah. It seems I did inadvertently disapprove the photo, which was not in the nom. I should be the one paying attention, Yoninah, not you!Georgejdorner (talk) 15:30, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
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