Template:Did you know nominations/Lal Sena

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BlueMoonset (talk) 21:46, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Closing; no response to edit requests or new hook proposed after one month

Lal Sena

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• ... that Lal Sena rocked central Bihar in India in the 1970s?
  • ALT1: ... that clashes between Lal Sena and landlord militias led to hundreds of civilian deaths in India?

• Comment: Article moved to main space on 15 December,2016.

Moved to mainspace by Maaley (talk). Also extensively improved by Maproom. Self-nominated at 02:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC).

• Thank you for the new article, but there are still several issues. The original hook wasn't in proper English (fixed). You forgot the link in ALT1 (fixed). Much of the article needs thorough copyediting: "caders" for "cadres", "causalties" for "casualties", &c. and loads of parentheses and spacing issues. Your sources show that the Communist Part of India (Marxist-Leninist) should be abbreviated CPI-ML or CPI (ML). Neither hook is supported by the article: The article is written in such a way that it says the "Conflict and Violence" only ran from the 1980s to late '90s and involved much less than a hundred civilian deaths. The sources probably do support the hooks but the article itself needs a thorough redo, probably alongside a native English speaker. Maproom should probably be credited for his extensive improvements to the article. You can try asking at the WP:HELPDESK, the WP:REFERENCEDESK, or WP:TEAHOUSE.

When that's all done, it's long enough (~3k elig. chars.); timely move to mainspace; as mentioned above, the article is sourced but badly structured and meanders between its proper WP:SCOPE (Lal Sena itself) and its parent organization (CPI-ML Liberation); it also has WP:TONE issues where it states as bald unsourced fact that a violent insurrection of Communist guerrillas actually were "protecting labourers" and "supporting peasantry": ideally the disservice and hypocrisy should be pointed out; at the very least that language needs to be tightened into something approaching objectivity with the original outrages and the Lal Sena assistance noted and sourced; detected copyvio is limited to the blockquote. No image; no QPQ needed. — LlywelynII 15:33, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

• LlywelynII Thanks for the review and suggestions I will correct the spellings and report to you. Please tell me how to credit Maproom.
  About your comments:
  "issues where it states as bald unsourced fact that a violent insurrection of Communist guerrillas actually were "protecting laborers" and "supporting peasantry": ideally the disservice and hypocrisy should be pointed out" kindly see the info box of conflict of the article, its given all in there along with the sources. And also, the introduction part please. I didn't write anything like "protecting laborers" or "supporting peasantry" I mentioned who fought on whose side and have given the details too. "Neither hook is supported by the article: The article is written in such a way that it says the "Conflict and Violence" only ran from the 1980s to late '90s and involved much less than a hundred civilian deaths", second hook about the death of civilians, kindly check the conflict info box, its death of 521 people mentioned at the end of the box with source. I am a new editor please help me with some more explanation about the wp;scope and the copy violation also ,in the article I have kept the sourced quotes in block quote how can it be a copy violation.
  Please help. Your participation in editing the article will be of great help. Thanking you,Maaley (talk) 03:31, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

• "Kindly see the [infobox]": I did. It certainly seems like a BIASED, unobjective claim from one side of a violent conflict and probably shouldn't be there at all. That claim also lacks any citation, which it certainly needs. The cites for the dates have nothing to do with the claim about their role. The lead should not have citations (WP:LEADCITE) but it has no similar phrasing in any case.
  "I didn't write anything like "protecting laborers" or "supporting peasantry": Yes, you did. That is, in fact, precisely the biased infobox claim that we were just disagreeing about.
  "Kindly check the conflict [infobox]": I did and you're not wrong but that's just the infobox. I was talking about how the article itself is structured. You have a section called "The conflict and violence" and that section only begins in the mid-1980s. You need to move the material around so that the "Issues that led to the armed conflict" is about the 1960s and earlier, the "The conflict and violence" section is about the Lal Sena itself (apparently only 1974–6?), and everything else is in a different section named something like "Legacy".
  "...[the] death of 521 people [is] mentioned at the end of the box with source": First, no, there is not a citation for that number. Second, "civilians" are listed as a subset of those 521 people and not the entirety of it. Third, the body of the article doesn't mention anything like half a thousand civilians being killed. Adding up all the civilians mentioned by "The conflict and violence" section comes to well less than a single hundred.
  "...please help me with some more explanation about the wp;scope": Well, first, look over WP:SCOPE. Now, think about your article.
  Your article is about the Lal Sena organization, not the conflict in general. You need to rebuild the article to reflect that: Background before it formed; Activities for what it actually did; and Legacy for everything that came after it.
  "...please help me with some more explanation about... the copy violation": That's only for DYK nominations and only says we can't take articles if you just copy someone else's writing. I said that you didn't do that, so it's not a problem. Similarly, the blockquotes are not a problem.
  You're more than welcome and good luck. I know it's hard to do this in your second, 3d, &c. language.
  Remember to add some new, sourced hooks for this to go forward. — LlywelynII 08:07, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is showing the correct spelling is casualties and not "causalties" and for "caders" as you said its showing "cadres". Now I am confused whether to write the spellings that you say or that of the Wikipedia. Yours sincerely,Maaley (talk) 03:43, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

• Just my point. You wrote "cader" and "causalties" and those are the wrong spellings. It's not really necessary for the DYK process but, yes, it would be better if you went through the page with a native speaker or a spell check program and corrected the numerous missspelinks. — LlywelynII 06:14, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

• LlywelynII thanks for your suggestions. I will certainly do as advised. Kindly inform me if there is any auto check programs for correcting the spellings.Maaley (talk) 11:10, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

• My version of Chrome comes with one, I think, but I'm sure there are "extensions" for Chome, Internet Explorer, Mozilla, whatever that you can find and use. — LlywelynII 06:55, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

• Just a reminder to notify me once the page is improved and there's a solid hook to review. — LlywelynII 13:36, 6 January 2017 (UTC)