Template:Did you know nominations/Jainism

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

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Jainism

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Primary symbol of Jainism
Primary symbol of Jainism
  • ... that Jainism is an ancient Indian religion which has the most-highly developed principles of non-violence and believes that truth and reality always have more than one aspect? Source: Dundas, Paul (2002) [1992], The Jains (Second ed.), London and New York: Routledge, p. 160, ISBN 978-0-415-26605-5Sangave, Vilas Adinath (2001), Facets of Jainology: Selected Research Papers on Jain Society, Religion, and Culture, Mumbai: Popular Prakashan, p. 185, ISBN 978-81-7154-839-2Charitrapragya, Samani (2004), Sethia, Tara (ed.), Ahimsā, Anekānta, and Jaininsm, Motilal Banarsidass, pp. 75–79, ISBN 978-81-208-2036-4

Improved to Good Article status by Capankajsmilyo (talk) and Chiswick Chap (talk). Nominated by Capankajsmilyo (talk) at 05:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: None required.

Overall: --evrik (talk) 06:15, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. The only close comparison shown in Earwig's Copyvio Detector is dharmapedia which seems like a copy of wikipedia and not the other way around. Capankajsmilyo(Talk Infobox assistance) 07:18, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but the hook really sounds like you're promoting a product. Also, if you're going for the image slot, I would like to know why there's a swastika in the logo? Alternate hooks are needed here. Yoninah (talk) 13:21, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
The hand symbolizes Ahiṃsā, the wheel dharmachakra, the resolve to halt saṃsāra (transmigration)
The hand symbolizes Ahiṃsā, the wheel dharmachakra, the resolve to halt saṃsāra (transmigration)
  • I am suggesting an alterante logo. --evrik (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Thanks for ping Yoninah, I have sourced all the content. Swastika is a religious symbol in Indic religions including Jainism. The image depicted is an image of universe in Jain cosmology. Capankajsmilyo (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Why am I unsurprised to see this? You have not sourced the hooks, Capankajsmilyo. The claim about ahimsa is only sourced with respect to Jainism, Hinduism, and Buddhism; no other comparison is made. The claim ascetism is with respect to all major Indian religions. Both your hooks imply these are true globally; the sources say no such thing. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:07, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I thought the hooks were okay. Do you have an issue with the hooks, or the sourcing? --evrik (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • My issue is with the hooks. They are not hooky. In the past we have run short "explanations" as a hook, but both of these are too long. If that swastika image is running, I'm sure a terrific hook could be written around that. The nominator needs to think about the worldwide audience looking at this, not the small circle of Indian readers who know what Jainism is about. Yoninah (talk) 16:27, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • They are also unsupported by both the article text and the sources. We cannot run those. There's any number of interesting hooks that can be written here; why must we try for something so grandiose? Vanamonde (Talk) 16:42, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Alt0a ... that Jainism is an ancient Indian religion that has principles of non-violence and believes that truth and reality always have more than one aspect?
  • ALT1a:... that Jainism is an ancient Indian religion that has an ascetic tradition where monks and nuns completely renounce property and social relations, own nothing and are attached to no one?

Thoughts? --evrik (talk) 18:55, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

  • How is this any different from the original hooks? Hooks are supposed to "reel" readers in, not put them to sleep. Yoninah (talk) 21:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I have removed some of the superlatives. --evrik (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • ??? This article is over 126,000 bytes and this is all we can come up with? I'd like to look at it tomorrow to see if something else can be suggested. Yoninah (talk) 23:25, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Alt3 that Mahatma Gandhi, The leader of the campaign for Indian independence, was greatly influenced by an ancient Indian religion, Jainism.[1]
  • Alt4 that Jainism is an ancient Indian religion which states that truth and reality are complex and always have multiple aspects.[2]
  • Alt5 that nonviolence is highest ethical duty in Jainism, an ancient Indan religion.[3]
  • Alt6 that Jainism is an ancient Indian religion in which monks and nuns completely renounce property and social relations, own nothing and are attached to no one.[4][5]
  • Alt7 that Jainism has had the strongest ascetic tradition of the major Indian religions.[6][7][8]

Are these good, or should I look for some more? Capankajsmilyo (talk) 01:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

  • @Capankajsmilyo: would you please source those here so we don't have to look for them? Thanks. --evrik (talk) 02:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
  • @Evrik and Yoninah: Are the new hooks good? I was about to promote ALT5 in the image slot but I realized that this still needs a re-tick. The image alt text I was going to use is below this comment in hidden text. I linked to Jain symbols b/c of the question about the presence of the swastika. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 18:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @The Squirrel Conspiracy: you can't be serious. None of the alts remotely resembles a "hook", especially for the image slot where we try to run good hooks. I haven't had time to suggest other hooks yet. Yoninah (talk) 18:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Alt4 is workable. Can we tweak it? --evrik (talk) 19:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Evrik: if you insist, but not in the image slot. I don't think the nominator has an idea of how to write a hook, and if you don't want to help him, so be it. Yoninah (talk) 19:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I'm completely serious. ALT5 felt ... topical ... at the moment, and I don't see why the image can't run. It's not solely your decision to make. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 19:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • @The Squirrel Conspiracy: I keep getting pinged here, so I keep answering. I'm too tired to think of another hook now and if you're building the set, go ahead and do what you think best. Yoninah (talk) 20:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

(←) Alright, I've got a short and punchy one:

@Evrik:, does that work for you? The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

  • OK, I came by to promote this. This sentence in the article containing the hook fact needs an inline cite: holding that the universe was never created, and will exist forever. I believe the cite is footnote 14. However, the language the universe was never created is misleading; the source is saying that no god created it, not that it wasn't created at all. Since we're here, we must have been created, no? I am not able to access footnote 31; maybe that says more about this idea. Yoninah (talk) 22:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Ah, maybe the wording should be the universe was not created? That would work. We still need an inline cite. Yoninah (talk) 22:20, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
@Capankajsmilyo and The Squirrel Conspiracy: anyone have the citation? --evrik (talk) 22:46, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
evrik I got it off Google (the preview of the book contained the pages cited. Long p. 83 says "In Jainism, as well as Hinduism and Buddhism, one encounters a universe without beginning or end. According to this cosmology, we have all been undergoing a process of birth, life, death, and rebirth since time without beginning." That's all the coverage of that topic, it then goes on into a discussion about Karma and the soul for the rest of the three pages cited. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 00:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
  • evrik I added the inline cite to the sentence in the article that confirms ALT8a (von Glasenapp, 1925, p. 241). Yoninah (talk) 01:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for the help everyone. The latest hook looks perfect. Capankajsmilyo (talk) 01:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
We need your approval tick, evrik. Yoninah (talk) 18:26, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Rudolph & Rudolph 1984, p. 171.
  2. ^ Charitrapragya 2004, pp. 75–79.
  3. ^ Vijay K. Jain 2012, p. 33.
  4. ^ Natubhai Shah 2004, p. 112.
  5. ^ Long 2009, p. 109.
  6. ^ Cort 2001a, pp. 118–122.
  7. ^ Qvarnström 2003, p. 113.
  8. ^ Qvarnström 2003, pp. 169–174, 178–198 with footnotes.
  9. ^ Long 2013, pp. 83–85.
  10. ^ von Glasenapp 1925, pp. 241–242.
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