Template:Did you know nominations/Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 21:33, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
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Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt
... that the 1979 Christian song "Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt" claims "Glory be to God on Earth"?Source: [1][2]- Reviewed: Solar power in Turkey
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 15:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC).
@Gerda Arendt:, a good hook could be made by saying that this song is part of Neues Geistliches Lied, to express the interests of young people better than traditional hymns. The introduction to this article states says that the hymn is NGL, but the main body does not say it clearly. I will be happy to finish this review for you tomorrow! Flibirigit (talk) 22:50, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- ? - Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - ?
- Interesting:
| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Article was created on May 15, and nominated on May 22, therefore new enough. Length is adequate. No plagiarism issues detected. QPQ has been done. The "Text and theme" section contains multiple quotes. As per WP:DYKCRIT, a citation needs to appear directly at the end of any sentence which includes a quote. The sentence which supports ALT0 needs a citation directly at the end. ALT0 is reasonably interesting. I am open to other hooks being proposed as per above. Flibirigit (talk) 16:52, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: Perhaps this can work?
ALT1 ... that the hymn "Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt" is of a genre which aims to express the interests and ideas of young people better than traditional hymns?Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:47, 15 June 2022 (UTC)- That is a good hook about the genre, but not about this specific song. Sadly the title is too long for the translation "I praise my Lord who gets me out of the depths", in the sense of Psalm 130 (Out of the deep ...). I think "Glory to God on earth" - vs. the normal "Glory to God in the Highest" has some of the idea. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'll work more on a usage section, and hopefully find a better thing to say. Later today or tomorow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Will look for the changes. Flibirigit (talk) 15:05, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt:, please accept this courtesy reminder that no action has been made on this nomination during the week. Flibirigit (talk) 21:35, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you. Sorry, terrible and happy events in real life. I looked further, and more sources stress the "on Earth" vs. "in the Highest" aspect. One newspaper describes it being sung on the Schlossplatz Stuttgart by the crowd gathered there of around 100.000, - that's probably more what you want. Should I add it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- The additional source will only help the article. A song sung by 100,000 persons could be hooky. Do you have other changes, or is it okay to go ahead with ALT0? Flibirigit (talk) 16:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- I added it, and a hook could be:
ALT2: ... that around 250,000 people joined singing the refrain of the 1979 Christian song "Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt" at an evening event of the 2015 Kirchentag in Stuttgart?Source - I don't know how to say that usually only one of five in such a group actually sings ;) - Thank you for providing the cites to the quotes. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 23 June 2022 (UTC)- I like ALT2, it's better than the original hook at least. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:49, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0 is now properly cited and mentioned inline, and verified by the source since I can read German. ALT0 is tentatively approved! ALT1 is struck as per the comments above by Gerda. I cannot think of a better way to word ALT1, so I will move on without it. As for ALT2, I am curious about the choice of "around 100,000". The source says, "Der Platz ist nun vollständig gefüllt, 250.000 Menschen sollen da sein." This seems to me to say estimated 250,000 people. Flibirigit (talk) 22:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- you are right, I wrote from (bad) memory, changed --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
ALT0 and ALT2 approved as per above review. Flibirigit (talk) 23:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- you are right, I wrote from (bad) memory, changed --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- I like ALT2, it's better than the original hook at least. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:49, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- The additional source will only help the article. A song sung by 100,000 persons could be hooky. Do you have other changes, or is it okay to go ahead with ALT0? Flibirigit (talk) 16:34, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you. Sorry, terrible and happy events in real life. I looked further, and more sources stress the "on Earth" vs. "in the Highest" aspect. One newspaper describes it being sung on the Schlossplatz Stuttgart by the crowd gathered there of around 100.000, - that's probably more what you want. Should I add it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt:, please accept this courtesy reminder that no action has been made on this nomination during the week. Flibirigit (talk) 21:35, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
- Will look for the changes. Flibirigit (talk) 15:05, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'll work more on a usage section, and hopefully find a better thing to say. Later today or tomorow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- That is a good hook about the genre, but not about this specific song. Sadly the title is too long for the translation "I praise my Lord who gets me out of the depths", in the sense of Psalm 130 (Out of the deep ...). I think "Glory to God on earth" - vs. the normal "Glory to God in the Highest" has some of the idea. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5 and Flibirigit: Gerda brings up a reasonable problem with ALT2 – we can't verify how many people sang, only how large the crowd was and that many in the crowd sang. I prefer it over ALT0, so can either of you think of a snappy way to remove that mislead? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 11:08, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what exact wording would work, but one idea could be to mention that 250,000 was the crowd, then mention that the crowd sung but without making the direct connection that 250,000 people sung? It's kind of hard to explain, but basically something like "there was a crowd of 250,000, and later that crowd sung (but it's unknown if all 250,000 sung)". Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:19, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
- One would have to assume that this is dead on arrival, but I'll throw it out there anyway:
ALT2a: ... that many in the 250,000-strong crowd helped sing the refrain of a 1979 Christian song during the 2015 Kirchentag?
- Gerda, which details would you like to see put back in this hook? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 01:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- I believe the original is easier, and dislike the pipe, because those reading German will immediately see that it alludes to Psalm 130 - which might be another hook possibility, thinking of Yoninah.
ALT2b: ... that at an evening event of the 2015 Kirchentag, "Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt" was performed on three stages for a crowd of around 250,000, and many joined for the refrain? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:24, 27 June 2022 (UTC)- I disagree with that sentiment. Most readers of the English Wikipedia, including those reading the main page, do not understand German. People seeing the long title would not even realize that it is referring to a Psalm at all unless they know the language, and I doubt most readers do. I still think ALT2a is a better option here: it flows better, it's straight to the point, and I think the 250,000-strong crowd is a strong hook fact in on if itself. As such,
I am approving ALT2a only; rest of the review per Flibirigit. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 21:54, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree with ALT2a, sorry, because "help" seems not a good word to say about people just singing along. I don't have a better word than "join". - I also disagree with your evaluation. The other day, we had a double nom with an author and his song Selig, wem Christus auf dem Weg begegnet. More people clicked the song than the author, although he came first. I think a longish German title may raise curiosity, while "a 1979 Christian song" will not, promised. What do you think, tlc? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- How about changing "helped sing" to simply "sung"? That way the context is "many in a crowd sang a song". It says that many sang the song, but it doesn't claim that all people in the song sang it (which was the concern raised about the earlier version). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:15, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- Or how about, as a possible compromise, we could go with something like:
- ALT2c ...
that many in the 250,000-strong crowd sang the refrain of the Christian hymn Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt during the 2015 Kirchentag?
- ALT2c ...
- I'm still not sold on the full German song being mentioned here but if a promoter promoted this I wouldn't object. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:18, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree with ALT2a, sorry, because "help" seems not a good word to say about people just singing along. I don't have a better word than "join". - I also disagree with your evaluation. The other day, we had a double nom with an author and his song Selig, wem Christus auf dem Weg begegnet. More people clicked the song than the author, although he came first. I think a longish German title may raise curiosity, while "a 1979 Christian song" will not, promised. What do you think, tlc? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:09, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree with that sentiment. Most readers of the English Wikipedia, including those reading the main page, do not understand German. People seeing the long title would not even realize that it is referring to a Psalm at all unless they know the language, and I doubt most readers do. I still think ALT2a is a better option here: it flows better, it's straight to the point, and I think the 250,000-strong crowd is a strong hook fact in on if itself. As such,
- One would have to assume that this is dead on arrival, but I'll throw it out there anyway:
- I'm not sure what exact wording would work, but one idea could be to mention that 250,000 was the crowd, then mention that the crowd sung but without making the direct connection that 250,000 people sung? It's kind of hard to explain, but basically something like "there was a crowd of 250,000, and later that crowd sung (but it's unknown if all 250,000 sung)". Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:19, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Why was ALT0 struck without comment or explanation? Flibirigit (talk) 14:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
- Flibirigit, ALT0 was struck when Narutolovehinata5 posted
I am approving ALT2a only
at 21:54, 27 June 2022 (UTC). Having just read ALT0 myself, I think it's better struck; a Christian hymn claiming something about God is just not interesting. Some variant of the ALT2x proposals should work. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)- @Gerda Arendt:, how do you feel about ALT2c? Do you want to propose other hooks? Flibirigit (talk) 19:03, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: Gerda hasn't been responding to pings on her nominations over the last few days despite activity elsewhere. Would it be better to wait for her response or could the nomination move forward without her reply? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:39, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- I returned from a funeral last night and have more important things to do than DYK fine-tuning, sorry. I believe that the mass singing is catchy, and don't mind you going that way, but I believe that "glory to God on earth" (vs. the normal "in the Highest") tells a lot more about the song (and is not just saying something about God). But again, popularity is also good to know about the song, and ALT2c works for me. It was sung in the last service I attended, and is often the choice for the Gloria when singing mass for a young audience. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- In ALT2c, the word "many" is not reflected in the prose of the "Use" section. Please note that a translation of the corresponding source is: "At the latest with the "Hallelujah" of the chorus, the whole Schlossplatz joins in." Flibirigit (talk) 15:18, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Has the above been resolved? Z1720 (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- Why do you ping me? The hook without problems was the original - struck. Going for the sensational causes problems I can't solve. My experience with masses singing just is that perhaps a quarter sings, but that is no possible to source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: As the nominator, I wanted to give you the chance to resolve the concerns above and/or propose new ALTs and get this approved. I'm going to ping @Narutolovehinata5 and Flibirigit:, who might be able to propose an ALT hook for approval. Z1720 (talk) 21:45, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- I based ALT2c on
At the Kirchentag 2015 [de] in Stuttgart, the song was performed during an event called Abend der Begegnung (Evening of meeting) on the Schlossplatz with around 250,000 people attending; the song's verses were sung and played on three stages, and the crowd joined in the refrain.
Originally, the proposal was to say the crowd itself sang the refrain, but Gerda said that not everyone in the crowd sang that part, hence the addition of "many". Either the prose has to be rephrased, or we may have to reword ALT2c further. As BlueMoonset said, the original hook is probably unsuitable. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:39, 8 August 2022 (UTC)- The article says: "... with around 250,000 people attending; the song's verses were sung and played on three stages, and the crowd joined in the refrain." It doesn't imply that each single person was singing. It doesn't have to be changed. I just can't say that short enough for a hook. Anybody? - None of the proposals above mentions "crowd" or some equivalent. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:02, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
- I based ALT2c on
- @Gerda Arendt: As the nominator, I wanted to give you the chance to resolve the concerns above and/or propose new ALTs and get this approved. I'm going to ping @Narutolovehinata5 and Flibirigit:, who might be able to propose an ALT hook for approval. Z1720 (talk) 21:45, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- Why do you ping me? The hook without problems was the original - struck. Going for the sensational causes problems I can't solve. My experience with masses singing just is that perhaps a quarter sings, but that is no possible to source. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Has the above been resolved? Z1720 (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
- I returned from a funeral last night and have more important things to do than DYK fine-tuning, sorry. I believe that the mass singing is catchy, and don't mind you going that way, but I believe that "glory to God on earth" (vs. the normal "in the Highest") tells a lot more about the song (and is not just saying something about God). But again, popularity is also good to know about the song, and ALT2c works for me. It was sung in the last service I attended, and is often the choice for the Gloria when singing mass for a young audience. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: Gerda hasn't been responding to pings on her nominations over the last few days despite activity elsewhere. Would it be better to wait for her response or could the nomination move forward without her reply? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:39, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
ALT2d ... that members of a 250,000-strong crowd sang the refrain of the Christian hymn Ich lobe meinen Gott, der aus der Tiefe mich holt during the 2015 Kirchentag? starship.paint (exalt) 13:02, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
- Approving ALT2d as per my original review. The new hook is a slight tweak of ALT2 and is properly mentioned, cited and verified. I have struck ALT2c as per my comment above. Flibirigit (talk) 13:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)