Talk:War in Amhara

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes was merged into War in Amhara on 9 September 2023. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Moving the article[edit]

Starting a discussion for a potential move of this article from the current tile to War on Amhara since it is a war waged by the government against the Amhara regional resistance forces- i.e. this is not a conflict between parties within the same region rather a war between the ENDF and Amhara foces. If this is not controversial, please move it to the proposed tiltle. Petra0922 (talk) 19:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Petra0922: OK you can move the article title to appropriate name by yourself. AsteriodX (talk) 19:30, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@ Great. Let me do it then. I will also update the talk page adding this link.Petra0922 (talk) 19:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems it is already done. Thank you. Petra0922 (talk) 19:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! sorry for earlier comment, I forgot your comment saying "move by yourself because of uncontroversial" and moved without noticing it. AsteriodX (talk) 19:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AsteriodX, that is fine. It seems I missed an important thread. Let me catch up. Petra0922 (talk) 13:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes[edit]

I feel like it wouldn't be appropriate to make an entirely new article for a mere escalation of an already ongoing event. The war is already going on (apparently, I hadn't known of the one in Amhara before lol), if there's an escalation I think it'd be good to focus on expanding the present article rather than making a new one - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 17:56, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Presidentofyes12: it appears like the first conflict stopped in May

but the new one seem more brutal too me, since it gets more attention but why is this one called "clashes" but this one "war" than?

@AsteriodX, Borysk5, Agamino911, and InedibleHulk: maybe you can help out Braganza (talk) 15:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is so short, the could be merged IMO. Borysk5 (talk) 15:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Borysk5: No it should be a standalone article because the War in Amhara denotes the larger conflict that started in April. If you see sources, there was instability and resistance in April when the Ethiopian federal force enter Amhara region to disarm the regional authority, a starting point of unrest in Amhara and there was no serious confrontation until 1 August. The August 1, 2023 clash is the renewed scale of War in Amhara that began in cities of Debre Tabor and Kobo.

@Presidentofyes12: So Fano and ENDF started an "armed clashes" on 1 August, meaning they opened fire to each other. It would be renamed "War" if the armed conflict is serious than normal. AsteriodX (talk) 16:59, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If this is true then there was really no war in Amhara until 1 August. The article itself mentions protests being the core of the situation at the time, with only sporadic incidents of armed violence- the new resurgence is the first major instance of mutual armed violence.

In any case, a merger would be best in this situation, because the present article on the fighting in Amhara is not independent of the overall crisis, and neither article is particularly sizeable at the moment- so, as I said, it'd be good to focus on expanding the present article rather than making a new one. Perhaps the pre-clash info could be reorganized into a "Prelude" section or something, but both articles are short, so they should likely be merged - presidentofyes, the super aussa man 17:56, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Presidentofyes12: I agreed. The article should be merged to one article. Stuffs in War in Amhara should be in "Prelude" section. It should be named as current title 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes as a climax event. I'm sorry for delayed decisions. AsteriodX (talk) 19:58, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AsteriodX: "It would be renamed "War" if the armed conflict is serious than normal." why is the conflict which started in April called "war" then? Braganza (talk) 19:34, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Braganza: This is the idea of Petra0922, see Moving the article. Courtesy I did fault with article naming out of knowledge. I think War in Amhara should merged into 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes. I'm so sorry for such unilateral move :-( AsteriodX (talk) 19:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AsteriodX@Braganza, see the new section i started below. The key point is that government/the state waged the hostility since April so it qualifies the "war" requirement- recognizing that conflict is part of war but it is generally used to explain fight between armed groups.Petra0922 (talk) 13:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

what happened between May & August though? did the fighting stop?

and what about 2023 Sudan conflict, there constant fightings since April and its called "conflict" Braganza (talk) 13:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The fighting never stopped but in August government started sending more military and intensified hostilities. We will need to look at the Sudan conflict separately though. Petra0922 (talk) 14:31, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm too ignorant to help, but good luck! InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

War versus Conflict[edit]

Highlighted in the above section that government/the state waged the hostility are known as war and that already started in April. So it qualifies the "war" requirement- recognizing that conflict is part of war but it is generally used to explain fight between armed groups.Petra0922 (talk) 13:23, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox needs work[edit]

The infobox information needs series work since it consists of inaccurate and unsourced warring parties. Involved parties are the ENDF and Fano.Petra0922 (talk) 15:36, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes into War in Amhara[edit]

WP:REDUNDANTFORK / WP:DUP: The two articles cover exactly the same subject. Fontaine347 (talk) 21:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Currently agree, these are very clearly about the same topic right now. XTheBedrockX (talk) 08:11, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: the 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes is a single armed conflict that began in August. The War in Amhara denoting instabilities in Amhara region following ENDF entered the region to disarm the local militia such as Fano in April 2023. It ensued sporadic protests and resistance in various towns of the region. The War in Amhara should encompass the August fighting. Regardless of the usage of "War in Amhara", the article should be precise about the August fighting. Alternatively, the name should be changed to August 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes if the conflict abates on August 8.AsteriodX (talk) 15:01, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Details from 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes still need to be added here if this article is going to encompass it.

I'm not convinced that there's currently enough info here to have the pages split off from each other, but if they're going to be separate, then a summary for the clashes needs to be here. XTheBedrockX (talk) 01:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK it should be headlined under 2023 Fano–ENDF clashes subsection in War in Amhara. AsteriodX (talk) 19:31, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support: WP:REDUNDANTFORK - there is no need for them to have two separate articles, they are clearly the same conflict. محرر البوق (talk) 00:09, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose — "war in Amhara" is an inappropriate title. It limits the war in geography very strictly, within the Amhara federal region. "Amhara war" or "Fano conflict" or whatever would be more appropriate, since that focuses the war on who is fighting rather than where it is occuring. And it's a still ongoing war so we don't know where it will spill over even more in the future.

And already we can see the war has gone outside Amhara federal region for quite some time now (in the Welkait area in Western Tigray region — as seen on the map at the top left of this Wikipedia article itself). The war is literally no longer just in Amhara even right now as we speak. —Loginnigol 17:44, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That area of Tigray was already occupied and claimed by Amhara forces since the Tigray War. It's not spillover. JECE (talk) 18:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your objection in this debate is incoherent. We are not discussing the current title of the page, but the merger of two redundant articles. --Fontaine347 (talk) 15:33, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, both articles seem to cover the same conflict. I added the 'see also' templates to the top because of this. --JECE (talk) 18:07, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]