Talk:Vocational education/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Career and Technology Education

What are thoughts of moving this to career and technology education? The Carl Perkins legislation which funds a large part of CTE has been revised to the new terminiolgy. ALso, the professional assocaitions have changed to encompass the broader spectrum.

Thoughts: -Jzwei

Changes to vocational education

I have experience in the vocational education and training sector and although my entry is brief, I felt impelled to update the text. I changed the previous entry as it reflected outdated views and presented inaccurate information of little utility. *Sorry*

Thanks - RamonJD

No problem. Be Be bold in updating pages. --Jiang

Manual training

This webpage says "The Manual Training movement was the precursor to the vocational training programs in our schools today." While it would constitute a copyright violation to copy that webpage into Wikipedia, I wish that someone with some insight (I have none) into the history of U.S. education could document this. Published in 1914, The New Student's Reference Work is an out-of-copyright encyclopedia for the youth, with an article on Manual Training in Public Schools. That article can be used for facts, but Wikipedia needs to describe the history after 1914 as well. --LA2 04:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Profession and vocational education

The article Profession defines that a profession requires study and mastery of specialized knowledge. Traditionally, this has meant study in tertiary education. On the other hand, this article defines vocational education (which is by nature secondary) as leading to trades and professions. This seems a contradiction. I suggest removing the mentioning of professions from the article. --MPorciusCato 01:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. "Vocation" and "career" are used interchangibly.whicky1978^talk 06:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Careful.. Some vocational education leads to professions. I'm referring to such vocational education programs offered for clergy (like the United Methodist Church's Course of Study), vocational training for some types of nurses, or training programs for real estate agents here in the US. There is a continuing development of graduate level continuing education programs which offer vocational edcuation for a professional career. [[User talk:sideseat|talk] 19:42, 5, Oct 2006 (UTC)

NPOV & Stub

This is a much broader topic than this article makes the subject out to be. It needs to include all career education. It also uses jargon that seems regionally oriented. I'm not familiar with acroymns like VET. I can peer review the articlewhicky1978^talk 06:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Comments

It is also my general view that the article will benefit from growing in several aspects. However, isn't that the basic idea of the Wikipedia, to enable the able ones by providing artefacts enabling knowledge to grow in a democratic global society trough paricipation and collaboriation?

... jargon that seems [regionally oriented]. The UNesco is wide enough for me to be able to live with this regionally oriented jargon.

... acroymns like VET. Google and Wikipedia are powerful tools if you are critically looking for facts.

This is as far as I'm concerned an important topic which deserves the space and lattitude neccessary for it to grow. It has a global educational significance which calls for support more than sensorship.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trondsm (talk • contribs) 11:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

I too am not familiar with VET acronym and also believe its regionally oriented. Should not be in the first line of the article or even first paragraph if its gonna have a worldwide view. kawaputra^tok2me 19:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Vocational Training

That is correct, many parts of the world use various terms to describe vocational education. Vocational education is simply learning about a particular trade or job which involves hands on experience and technical training. Sometimes this involves apprenticeship.

In some English speaking countries, they use Polytechnic to describe the technical education received by students doing vocational courses. But in the UK, Polytechnic can refer to higher education institutions providing diploma, Bachelors, Masters and PhD degree courses.

In Australia, it uses TAFE (Technical and Further Education). In the United States, the term Community College applies to post secondary education providers that provide apprenticeships and vocation education but it can vary between states.

Visik 13:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

community colleges in general are not meant for vocational training but are more oriented towards either remedial coursework or underclassman studies for transfering to a 4 year university....there is vocational training there but i think someplace like ITT technical institute or one of the automotive colleges is a more appropriate example -ME 03:34 june 25th 2007

Not all apprenticeships are with community colleges. Some are private schools that specialize in one particular career or caree clusster such as ITT Technical Institute which does computer technology. Often, vocational training is done in high school. The terms and rules vary from state to state in the US.

This vocational education is a topic that could reach FA status.whicky1978^talk 04:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Conversely, apprenticeships and vocational education are not the only things offered by community colleges; most are two-year junior colleges as well. --JaceCady 19:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Scotland's versus (.UK) & its independ.eduºsystem (should be noted as England) not UK

I am a technical teacher in Scotland and you really need to chanage your comments in the UK section. Scotland has a completely independent education system from england and wales. What is written should be noted as England and NOT the United Kingdom.
I am unfamiliar with the correct procedures for this so I apologise if I am not meeting conventions.
J. Todd
Edinburgh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.135.41 (talk) 21:02, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

'lower class' are vocationally trained

I take issue with the assertion in the article that vocationally trained people are usually associated with a 'lower class' of people. In the united States these vocationally trained people have built the middle class. The 'lower class' is made up of unskilled workers doing menial and or entry-level, low skill jobs. Throughout history skilled workers have been significant in the economic development of any civilization. These skilled workers have been recognized in or through guilds, craft groups, apprenticeships, vocational training programs, etc. In the United States, until the Great Depression, education was purposed for University preparation (for a professional vocation) or vocational training. The 'general education' path was created in Detroit MI to keep youth in school, out of the increased unemployment lines, and not competing with adults for meager jobs.

Workers with skills were and are still needed to build and propel any national economy. Skilled workers have the opportunity to earn significantly more than unskilled workers and are therefore not part of a 'lower class'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark.hamilton.gps (talk • contribs) 00:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes -good comment above - this thinking is unique only to the UK specifically England and whoever wrote it is projecting a British centric cultural characteristic on the whole world. This is a nonsense. Apprenticeships in Canada the USA etc are highly respected, and this is why these countries took in thousands of UK immigrants with superb apprenticeship training. So this 'lower class' remark is typically British or more specifically English parochial ignorance... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.81.173 (talk • contribs) 09:25, February 6, 2012

Updating NZ and Australian arrangements

--Psbwilliams (talk) 04:21, 13 January 2011 (UTC)I have made several changes to the sections on arrangements in both Australia and New Zealand to reflect policy changes and also to provide additional clarifying detail. If it's not otherwise obvious, I am a novice contributor, and will limit my contributions to specifics and, for the moment, avoid the discussion on substantive matters.

Merge of vocational school

Oppose. There are numerous names for vocational school in the world and the article of vocational school explains that as well as the history of development vocational school as an institution. Vocational education on the other hand gives more general scope of what vocational education represents. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 15:40, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Australian VET

This section needs to be updated to reflect the current regulatory situation with the move to the Australian Skills Quality Authorityas a national regulator and away from State based regulation. Mention of relevant legislative changes should also be included.

The mention of accredited courses needs to be added as the VET sector is not composed of only qualifications etc. from industry training packages. An accredited course does not need to be created, managed and/or owned by an industry skills council. A link to the Wikipedia article Training packageshould not be included until that page is cleaned up.

Mention of the TGA website www.training.gov.au should be included to illustrate the various qualifications etc. that are on offer.

A link to the Wikipedia article National Training System (Australia)should be included so that more information can be sought.

More references need to be provided, especially for quantitative figures such as the 60% publicly-funded claim and the 11 industry skills councils referenced.

Simon Ives ^{(talk | contribs)} 02:44, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Sounds as if you're probably the editor best placed to tackle some of these changes Simon. Pondle (talk) 12:01, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

merge

there's much overlap between the two: vocational education and vocational school. Fgnievinski (talk) 20:41, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Closing, given the lack of support over more than 2 years, and not addressing concerns in earlier sections. Klbrain (talk) 23:19, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Vocational education. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:23, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Image in lead

An unregistered editor is insisting that the image in the lead be replaced with another one.

Old image, caption was: A student who goes on with his avionic education measures on a Piper Cheyenne with a calibrated multimeter
New image, caption is: The John F. Ross Collegiate Vocational Institute is an institution of vocational learning in Guelph, Canada, considered one of the first in the country.

I strongly prefer the old image; it has a student actually engaged in the practice discussed in this article and thus helps convey meaning to readers. The new image is quite boring and doesn't do anything to convey the topic of this article. Thoughts? ElKevbo (talk) 15:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

I see that higher education, vocational university, and many other is full of images like that since always. I think if the article was about the work itself as apprenticeship, internship, a photo with people would be the best. 1.179.183.109 (talk) 16:08, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

It's a tragic mistake to think that the most important part of an education is the physical building(s) in which it takes place. It's an error we do make in this (and many other) articles but it's one that we should not encourage and we should be trying to correct it and do better here and elsewhere. And even as far as photos of buildings go, the one you've chosen is quite boring. ElKevbo (talk) 17:35, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Help search for Independent, reliable sources

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 23:07, 17 January 2019 (UTC)