Talk:Vincenzo Di Francesca

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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|living=no|listas=Francesca, Vincenzo| I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I wish someone would write a book about this great man and how much he sacrificed for his beliefs and mine and millions of others before he even knew the name of The Book of Mormon and the restored gospel. I really appreciate wikipedia for having the information of Vincenzo Di Francesca.

Surname[edit]

I have been trying to change the references to the surname alone to simply "Francesca", but it keeps getting changed back. Here is what the Chicago Manual of Style says on this issue of names with particles: "In the original languages, particles in German, Italian, and Portuguese names are lowercased and are usually dropped when the last name is used alone. But if the form used with the particle is the one familiar to English speakers, it should be used. ... Giovanni da Verranzano; Verrazano ... Vasco da Gama; da Gama" So either way can be used. In this case, the sources don't really give guidance. In this ref this person is referred to as "Brother Francesca". But this one uses "Brother Di Francesca". I suggest when a person is not widely known in the English speaking world, as here, we should just follow the Italian convention and drop the particle. This person is not as well known as someone like Vasco da Gama such that the use of the particle would be well established in English. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:07, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Chicago Manual of Style doesn't appear to be consistent on the subject of surname particle usage. The online version states:

8.9 Italian names

Particles in Italian names are most often uppercased and retained when the last name is used alone.

Gabriele D’Annunzio; D’Annunzio

Lorenzo Da Ponte; Da Ponte

Luca Della Robbia; Della Robbia

In many older aristocratic names, however, the particle is traditionally lowercased and dropped when the last name is used alone.

Beatrice d’Este; Este

Lorenzo de’ Medici; Medici

See "http://www.businessweek.com/bios/francesca-di-meglio-1062.html" for an example.

Witsued (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think I was referring to the 15th edition, while the online version has the 16th, so it has been updated—or extended, rather, to discuss Italian names in isolation. Thanks. I looked around Wikipedia but couldn't find a local guideline for such cases. Given the variable usage in the Ensign, probably either form is acceptable for this person. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:44, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]