Talk:Venezuelan opposition

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved.

Discussions:

RM, Venezuelan opposition → Opposition to chavismo, Not moved, 22 November 2023, discussion
RM, Venezuelan opposition → Opposition to Chavismo, Not moved, 20 March 2024, discussion

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Requested move 20 March 2024[edit]

This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 5 April 2024. The result of the move review was Status quo ante restored.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. No opposition to this since last relisted. Best, (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans 12:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Venezuelan opposition → Opposition to Chavismo – The article has been drastically improved since its last move (original version), which during the last discussion was mentioned as needed to proceed with a move. Capitalizing "Chavismo" as well.

Other than that, the policy remains the same: it's the same title as the Spanish version; WP:PRECISION and WP:CONSISTENCY: the Russian opposition article was moved to Opposition to Vladimir Putin in Russia, and plenty of categories already use this format, including Venezuelan ones: Category:Opposition to Fidel Castro, Category:Opposition to Hugo Chávez, Category:Opposition to Ferdinand Marcos, Category:Opposition to Daniel Ortega, Category:Opposition to Ferenc Gyurcsány and Category:Opposition to Viktor Orbán NoonIcarus (talk) 16:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 17:49, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New title "Opposition to Chavismo" + LEDE language[edit]

New title: I had meant to weigh in on Talk:Opposition_to_Chavismo#Requested_move_20_March_2024 before it closed. I probably would have opposed the change. Although the new title might more accurately describe the Opposition--which could be helpful to readers and more useful 100 years from now--I believe WP:RS more typically refers to this group as just "The Opposition" or "The Venezuelan Opposition". The reason I waited is that I first wanted to look more carefully through a good sampling of the WP:RS in the article (and elsewhere). I also wanted to see how WP:MOS deals with titles that are common use now, but will likely be confusing in the distant future. --David Tornheim (talk) 23:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of the change, as "Chavismo" is kind of a loaded term and also expresses some ambiguity (Chavistas in Venezuela? in Latin America? in both? What is a "Chavista" anyways?). At the same time, I am hesitant to break with the Spanish precedent as this is an article on a Spanish language topic, I think we should take a cues from the es-wiki here.

"Venezuelan Opposition" is ok, but breaks with consensus w.r.t. Opposition to Vladimir Putin in Russia and lacks WP:PRECISION. "Opposition to the Bolivarian Revolution in Venezuela" may be a good alternative, but that seems a bit too wordy. "Venezuelan Opposition after 1999" is more concise, but faces the issue of being an article where we will forever have arguments about when we officially stop coverage. "Venezuelan Dissidence" might work but sees little use, (and casts mild aspersions).

"The Opposition" is right out :) Allan Nonymous (talk) 22:03, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New first sentence Given the above, the rewrite (with typo "is a political umbrella term to used") takes us even further from the prior focus on the name "The Opposition" or "The Venezuelan Opposition". Rather than revert or rewrite, I would like others to weigh in to see if the new title really is better. --David Tornheim (talk) 23:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the typo here. Sorry about that. Allan Nonymous (talk) 21:26, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI. I just wanted to put in my two cents that I am glad the page was moved back to Venezuelan Opposition, because that's what's in the RS. --David Tornheim (talk) 13:03, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TBH, I don't really mind, both "Opposition to Chavismo" and "Venezuelan Opposition" both have their flaws. Funny enough, Spanish wiki also doesn't love the title (if you check the talk page of the respective article there), there was some talk of splitting the article. This is one of those really annoying cases where an ambigiuous recentist term is used and will inevitably have to be disambiguated by historians at some point in the future but for now we're just stuck with. Allan Nonymous (talk) 17:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Opposition to Chavismo" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Opposition to Chavismo has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 1 § Opposition to Chavismo until a consensus is reached. TarnishedPath^talk 10:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]