Talk:Uskoks

Irrelevant evidence and proposal for delete parts of the article which have no evidence in the original historical documents

"Large numbers of Serb fugitives from Bosnia and Serbia fleeing the Ottomans, joined the ranks of the Uskok bands"There is no material evidence which would prove previous citation. There are no historical documents that mention Serbs in the Senj area. In the book "The Ottoman Empire and Early Modern Europe" Goffman, Daniel (2002) at page 190. there is no evidence that prove such a claim. (ref: https://archive.org/stream/The.Ottoman.Empire.and.Early.Modern.Europe/The.Ottoman.Empire.and.Early.Modern.Europe_djvu.txt) In second source from Davies, Norman (1996). Europe: a history. I did not see what it says on page 561, but without looking in that book there is no evidence for mentioning or migration of Serbians from Serbia to Senj area. For that reason this part of the article is a forgery and I propose that it be removed.Mikola22 (talk) 18:01, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

There were a number of different peoples fleeing the Ottomans during the time; some of these people did join the Uskoks and there is evidence showing that in the article. --Jesuislafete (talk) 19:56, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

You are right and for this reason we must not claim that Large numbers of Serb coming from Serbia when we have no historical sources which prov that migration to the territory of Croatia. Whether among Uskoks exist and smaller groups of Serbs probably yes but there are also and Vlachs, Croats, Albanians, etc.Mikola22 (talk) 12:07, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

There are a lot of sources proving migration into the territory of Croatia, specifically Lika. I don't see why it is relevant to have an entire section devoted to the ethnic origins of Uskoks. A few lines in the history section should suffice. --Jesuislafete (talk) 00:56, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

If there is a chapter in a book or in master thesis (Faculty of History) which deals with the origin of the Senj Uskoks I see no reason not to include that chapter or section in a Wikipedia article. People would like to know what is known for now about the origin of the Uskoks and if this information exists why not present it? As far as migration to Croatia is concerned(from western Slavonia to Dubrovnik area), I know that someone is coming from Bosnia but history records do not mention Serbs in that area or that they come to that area(there are a couple of records but this is for smaller groups) I have not heard about migration from Serbia to Croatia. Otherwise Uskoks exist from Senj to Montenegro, the most famous are the Senj and Klis Uskoks who are also related. Wikipedia article I quote " Large numbers of fugitives from Bosnia and Serbia fleeing the Ottomans, joined the ranks of the Uskok bands, therefore this is indefinite because the Uskoks do not belong to one people or to the same area and that is why we need to concretize itMikola22 (talk) 07:05, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

I still see no justification for an entire section on "orgins" when there is a history section that describes such things. I moved some parts of the to the History section and erased the rest, as it's redundant. If you have an issue with this, please state it here. --Jesuislafete (talk) 02:33, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Book that talks about Uskoks from Senj(Catherine Wendy Bracewell) has entire section on "orgins", master's thesis also has that section. I see no reason not to be so in this article. From this article: The Ottoman conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina during the early years of the 16th century drove large numbers of ethnic Croats and Serbs from their homes, which in the town of Klis prompted the formation of the Uskok military Large numbers of fugitives from Bosnia and Serbia fleeing the Ottomans, joined the ranks of the Uskok bands For Uskoks from Senj area there is no such information or that there would be any Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians etc among them. For this reason that section exist to peoples know exactly(from book which talks about Uskoks) their origin and not to mix Uskoks from Senj with Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanians, Bosnians, Montenegrins etc. And Morlachs has "origin" section. Under "origin" section it can be written about Serbian, Montenegrin, Bulgarian, Bosnian, Albanian etc Uskoks considering that there are also data on Uskoks in those areas even in parts of Croatia that have nothing to do with Senj Uskoks. For this reason that section must exist and that's why is here that peoples know something about the origin of the Uskoks from our areas. That's why "origin" section is in historian book or master's thesis of history departments. Mikola22 (talk) 10:44, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm still confused as to why it can't be incorporated into the "History" section? I (still) don't see why it warrants such a large, overly-sourced section on its own. It seems excessive and repetitive. --Jesuislafete (talk) 01:30, 30 December 2019 (UTC)